Australia - Russell Hill & Carol Clay Murdered While Camping - Wonnangatta Valley, 2020 #7

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Skyboy90 said:
He was a training captain at Jetstar it was mentioned. Looking at some EBAs he is likely on 350k a year so highly unlikely he is short of coin.

Dollars do run out eventually especially when one is unemployed. Not sure how the superannuation system works if one is able to tap that, he might be able to sell his house also.
Click to expand...
Hi Skyboy……was in Aviation for over 40 years even as a Check Captain his salary especially with Jetstar would not be that high…albeit he would have been on a reasonable salary, let’s just say a plumber would be on better $$$.
 
Skyboy90 said:
Not sure when Jetstar sacked him, obviously got a payout with that.

Might have sold his property? No idea if his partner is still standing with him, thought I read she was last year.

Under Victorian law, what sort of time frame are we looking at here if found guilty? 20 years? Doubt he will ever be employed as Flight Crew again.
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If he was sacked he get’s nothing. If he was made redundant then a package would be made available. In all my years I have never known a Pilot to be made redundant due to a huge shortage.
 
I think I'm allowed to say this....

I was a juror on a murder case that Justice Croucher was presiding on. For me, it was an amazing experience and I feel as a team of jurors we came to the correct decision. It was a very difficult case for us to all get our head around as there was an element of self defence which was part of the case.

The experience was life changing for me. I really didn't have any idea on how the law worked before I was a juror.

For me, this case has certain similarities.

Regarding self defence...and I have no idea if this will be part of this trial....
One thing that I still think about is the element of self defence. As jurors we learnt that its not about what we thought was a reasonable response that mattered. It's whether we thought that the defendant thought what they were doing was reasonable in the circumstances.... that really blew my mind but makes sense to me now.

This Judge, to me, after my experience, I can say is extremely fair.

As this Judge taught me, listen to the evidence. Have no prejudices.

I really feel for all of the families involved in this case as there will be no winners. Tough... but justice in Australia works well.
 
Bats said:
Regarding self defence...and I have no idea if this will be part of this trial....
Click to expand...

Here are some notes on self defence in VIC. Given what police claim about how the two people were killed, and Lynn's alleged burning and attempt to bury their remains, I'd say good luck trying to claim self defence:

In Victoria self-defence is a justification for an accused person to respond with violence if the accused believed that his or her conduct was necessary to defend himself or herself or another person from harm, or to protect property or to prevent deprivation of liberty or a trespass (R v Portelli (2004) and R v McKay [1957]). And the conduct was a reasonable response in the circumstances as the accused perceived them. In the case of murder the bar is very hight [sic], and self-defence will only be available if the person believes that the conduct is necessary to defend themselves or another person from the infliction of death or really serious injury.

The defence of self-defence is not available if the accused was responding to lawful conduct which was known by the accused at the time to be lawful (section 322L). Further, a person who instigates an attack cannot then claim that they acted to defend themselves against a counterattack unless their original aggression stopped prior to the retaliation.

There are two elements to self-defence, these are that the conduct was necessary, and the conduct was a reasonable response in all the circumstances as perceived by the accused.

www.criminalsolicitorsmelbourne.com.au

The Defence of Self Defence in Victoria | Dribbin & Brown

Charged with a crime? Our criminal lawyers specialize in self-defense cases and will fight to protect your rights and ensure a fair trial.
www.criminalsolicitorsmelbourne.com.au www.criminalsolicitorsmelbourne.com.au
 

The article went up 15 minutes ago. S missing from campers and is repeated through the story.

How missing camper allegedly died​

On Monday, former airline pilot Gregory Stuart Lynn, 57, appeared in the Victorian Supreme Court as a jury was selected to determine his case.

The jurors consist of seven women and eight men.
 
Last edited:
www.theguardian.com

Greg Lynn trial: pilot covered up deaths of campers Russell Hill and Carol Clay after tragic accident, lawyer tells court

Lawyers open their case after Lynn, 57, pleaded not guilty to murdering the pair in Victoria’s Wonnangatta Valley
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Police don’t know motive for alleged murders of campers Russell Hill and Carol Clay, trial of pilot Greg Lynn hears​


Paraphrased: Porceddu is the Prosecutor

It will be alleged that:

Lynn camped at Buck's Camp

Prosecutor said Lynn had hunting gear, including a 12-gauge shotgun

Lyn was comping near the river when he wa joined in the valley by Hill & Clay

Police do not know the exact circumstances behind the deaths , they allege a dispute

Clay was killed first, unknown how Hill did

Conduct of Lyn after the alleged murders, demonstrated he had tried to conceal evidence & distance himself , this involved moving the bodies, likely by placing them in Hill's camper trailer. He also allegedly placed items in the victims tent & set fire to it to destroy them.

Lynn also set fire to area adjacent to the couple's Toyota Landcruiser, likely to where blood from Clay is suspected to have been.

Lynn also likely to have taken cards & cash from at least one wallet & closed & locked the Toyota Landcruiser.

Lynn is alleged to have taken the couple's phones & drone, packed up his campsite & left with the bodies & other items

Lynn is alledged to have dumped the bodies on the side of a track near Dargo. a location he returned to.

Porceddu told the court about interactions Hill and Clay had with other campers in the months before their alleged murders.

Hill had argued with a fellow camper about setting up his site close to theirs, and had spoken to others about the importance of firearm safety, his interest in high frequency radio and flying his drone.

There are 15 jurors, eight men & seven women ( empanelled on Monday )

3 reserve jurors, trial expected to take 4 - 6 weeks

Lynn is taking notes

The public gallery, on the balcony of court room three, was packed with dozens of onlookers.
 
I don’t think the motive will ever be known. He will always maintain his innocence it seems.

I assume it was anger or something. A large cohort of pilots don’t like drones. Perhaps he was anti drone. Who knows. Not sure what the drone laws are and if they broke them, I doubt it considering it was bush.

Drones do tick a lot of people off. I witnessed a heated argument between two people last week in a public area over someone flying it. Still a stretch to imagine someone shooting two people dead over flying a drone. Or over anything for that matter. Two old people! Not drug dealers or something.
 

Greg Lynn: Trial underway for pilot accused of murdering campers Russell Hill and Carol Clay​

Prosecutors allege former pilot Greg Lynn killed two elderly campers in a “violent” confrontation, likely over a drone, a court has been told.

Seated in the back of the courtroom, Mr Lynn mostly kept his head down writing in a notebook as crown prosecutor Daniel Porceddu delivered his opening remarks.

snip

In the months after the alleged murders, Mr Porceddu said Mr Lynn allegedly sold his trailer, painted his car and returned to check whether the bodies remained concealed.
 
Prosecution are alleging the order of death was Russell first, then Carol. Lynn's account is the opposite.
It will be interesting to see if the prosecution can back this up with evidence.

A scenario where Russell was killed first, then Carol eliminated as a witness seems plausible. We already know that Lynn has gone to great lengths to cover up and distance himself from the deaths.
 
“It is not known how Mr Hill was killed. The prosecution alleges that Mr Hill was most likely killed first, in part because Mrs Clay is very unlikely to have provoked a violent confrontation involving a firearm or posed any threats to the accused.”

While the cause of Hill’s death is unknown, the prosecutor said it was alleged Lynn shot Clay in the head while she was crouched down near the canopy of the Landcruiser, and near her tent.

www.theage.com.au

Struggle over gun led to missing campers’ accidental deaths: defence

The trial of Gregory Lynn, who has pleaded not guilty to murdering campers Russell Hill and Carol Clay in Victoria’s alpine region in 2020, is under way in the Supreme Court. Follow the updates.
www.theage.com.au www.theage.com.au
 
drsleuth said:
www.theguardian.com

Greg Lynn trial: pilot covered up deaths of campers Russell Hill and Carol Clay after tragic accident, lawyer tells court

Lawyers open their case after Lynn, 57, pleaded not guilty to murdering the pair in Victoria’s Wonnangatta Valley
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Police don’t know motive for alleged murders of campers Russell Hill and Carol Clay, trial of pilot Greg Lynn hears​


Paraphrased: Porceddu is the Prosecutor

It will be alleged that:

Lynn camped at Buck's Camp

Prosecutor said Lynn had hunting gear, including a 12-gauge shotgun

Lyn was comping near the river when he wa joined in the valley by Hill & Clay

Police do not know the exact circumstances behind the deaths , they allege a dispute

Clay was killed first, unknown how Hill did

Conduct of Lyn after the alleged murders, demonstrated he had tried to conceal evidence & distance himself , this involved moving the bodies, likely by placing them in Hill's camper trailer. He also allegedly placed items in the victims tent & set fire to it to destroy them.

Lynn also set fire to area adjacent to the couple's Toyota Landcruiser, likely to where blood from Clay is suspected to have been.

Lynn also likely to have taken cards & cash from at least one wallet & closed & locked the Toyota Landcruiser.

Lynn is alleged to have taken the couple's phones & drone, packed up his campsite & left with the bodies & other items

Lynn is alledged to have dumped the bodies on the side of a track near Dargo. a location he returned to.

Porceddu told the court about interactions Hill and Clay had with other campers in the months before their alleged murders.

Hill had argued with a fellow camper about setting up his site close to theirs, and had spoken to others about the importance of firearm safety, his interest in high frequency radio and flying his drone.

There are 15 jurors, eight men & seven women ( empanelled on Monday )

3 reserve jurors, trial expected to take 4 - 6 weeks

Lynn is taking notes

The public gallery, on the balcony of court room three, was packed with dozens of onlookers.
Click to expand...
Doc, I think you've made a typing error and it should read 'placed in GL's camper trailer' and not Hills camper trailer, as written. Thanks for the informative update too.
 
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