Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #64

[JayWill]

Yes that is true, but I still read the comment I quoted as I stated. If they had concrete evidence, then we could have expected an arrest IMO, I think any evidence they potentially have must be circumstantial & they have drawn the conclusion that it’s pointing at the FFC so they are in the process of ruling her in or out, they don’t know what happened to William

Most evidence of crimes is circumstantial. Only proven eye witness accounts are not circumstantial.

 

[Naobh]

Yes that is true, but I still read the comment I quoted as I stated. If they had concrete evidence, then we could have expected an arrest IMO, I think any evidence they potentially have must be circumstantial & they have drawn the conclusion that it’s pointing at the FFC so they are in the process of ruling her in or out, they don’t know what happened to William

New evidence could mean a lot of things. If something has happened to another child in their care, they could call that new evidence. It might not mean the police have more substantial proof than new knowledge of their true nature. MOO.

 

[Limaes]

ok...make of this what you will...this is saying that the new focus is on the foster parents. It is concerning how some media can make such overt statements?

MEDIA=youtube]yDOLmSSJUy8[/MEDIA]

Interesting. It is every citizen's legal right not to talk to police but I don't think they can avoid Coronial questioning. I could be wrong though.

 

[Ozgal]

FASCINATING..

The article above is from 15/9/2014 and mentions the report of something being thrown from a car on Batar Creek Rd. Therefore, something being thrown from a car (the FGM’s) was witnessed and reported to police sometime within the first 3 days after his disappearance.

Which is very interesting indeed. No mention at first of taking a drive to look for W. Then by day 6, the drive enters the narrative….

I just read that article and no where in it does it mention something thrown from a car. This is what was said about Batar Creek Road

"Today we are also canvassing people driving along the Batar Creek Road, who may have been coming along that route last Friday," he said.

"We're just seeing if they saw anything, if they saw any vehicle or person, suspicious or not suspicious."

Search for William Tyrrell shifts to place he disappeared

 

[Milisi]

They must fall over a lot that family IMO. Falls have all been used to explain items / points of interest on the periphery of this case...

1. Explained WT black eye weeks prior to his disappearance by claiming WT was "climbing" on the FFC and lost balance and fell...
* source William Tyrrell's birth mother told son had 'black eye' just before final contact visit | Daily Mail Online
2. Explained away grazed hand(s) incurred morning of disappearance on falling in yard while playing with WT...
* source William Tyrrell’s birth family felt under suspicion for five years
3. LT being removed from the FFC & MFC and AVO placed on them in part due to bruising on her being explained away by falling from horse...
* source NoCookies | The Australian

The first two raise suspicion IMO as didnt FFC claim WT didnt warm to her initially and had only called her "mum" that morning aswell...timing is convenient on all of these...
* source William Tyrrell: Inside privileged life of foster mother, why she hates Spiderman photo | Daily Mail Online

As I said its a lot of falls happening at crucial moments of this case

I cannot forget the apparent nasty bruise on FFC foot in the recent pic outside her house. At the time, I was discussing the AVO situation with my husband and demonstrated if a child had been restrained from behind, they could have kicked back with one of their feet at about that level. IMO only, but it really struck me

 

[Couldbe]

Speculation follows...

I don't know, but maybe the FFC isn't a naturally maternal woman. Is she someone who has tried to be motherly - would love to be seen as motherly - but by comparison to the MFC (perhaps also by comparison to her friends, her sister, her brothers etc), doesn't have the same connection with kids, and just doesn't find parenting naturally. I know of people like that, they just don't have it. Not something to be ashamed of, in and of itself.

I also get the sense she is adept at seeming to be emotional, or giving the impression of being distraught. That might be a stretch as I don't know her, but thats the feeling I get.

It's been discussed on this site that she has a way of controlling the narrative, somewhat slanted to her being a great mother. Ive re-listened to a few interviews and with fresh ears, well, she just sounds a little manufactured. Perhaps she has had some acting experience over the years (though not necessarily an important thing), and can just - put it on (we all know these people) - whilst her husband, the MFC gives a very convincing sense of someone who is genuinely saddened by WT's disappearance. I hear him cry and lose the ability to get a sentence out - but always sounding genuine, gut wrenchingly so, whereas with her I hear someone more in control, someone who (potentially) artificially is winding herself up to sound appropriately saddened.

That's not to say I believe she doesn't have an emotional response to WT's disappearance. I don't discount that she loved him. But (potentially and IMO), WT died on her watch, and it is her regret and deep sorrow at his death might be something she resonates with when becoming emotional in interviews. I have seen tears dripping down her face in one silhouetted interview and I don't discount that there is a real grief response, but I cant help question whether it's coming from the same place that we all have feared - that William was abducted, and our/her question of where is he now? I think it's entirely plausible (to what degree I don't know) that she feels saddened by his loss, and for whatever part she played during those brief moments after the patio photographs, and this is what we see when she shows emotion.

I feel like it's possible that the FFC pined to be that maternal mother, and was potentially jealous of the MFC's natural connection with WT. And so, if some sort of disaster/accident/balcony fall befell the little guy, she couldn't reconcile that with her husband - and then thinking outwardly to her friend and family group, she may have thought - how would this reflect on her and her status as an attentive caring mother?

Could this be the motivation, in such a short space of time, whereby she decided to 'dispose' of WT, rather than face accusations of negligence or inattention? Did she have feelings of inadequacy against her husband, the man who by her and all reports got along so famously with WT.

It would explain why no Intel was gathered by he voice taps that GJ apparently placed in their car. The ruse after all would be against her husband as well. And to this day, it would explain why no recordings of conversations would have produced anything viable because she would be hiding it from everyone.

I don't know. This is all my own opinion obviously, but I cant help but feel that this might explain what might be the catalyst to a very dark serious of behaviours.

I haven't seen it discussed explicitly here, hence this thought bubble. And yes, this is all MOO. Just putting it out there.

She is of course an innocent party until proved otherwise.

Well explained scenario.
I too have had thoughts along these lines. In fact, I had tried to imagine this following scenario (JMO ... if FFC is a POI):
Where FFC, for whatever reason, had decided that she didn’t wish to continue to be a foster mother to William her options could have been:

• Return William because she didn’t have the required skill to continue;
• Seek help to cope.

However, the following may have occurred:

• Shut off to him emotionally;
• Lose her temper with him;
• Commence abusing him;
• Continue abusing him;
• By neglect, cause his death.

Question would then remain: How is it William's body has not been found?

 

[Milisi]

I have been waiting for this thread to low down a little as I have some observations on the Little Boy Lost - Ep 1, podcast. I've missed many months on this topic so don't want to type too much if this was already discussed in depth. Can someone please let me know if these things were already discussed before.

At 2.51, the long speech by FFC about not wanting to give "the exact details and that sort of thing" from that morning because, "I've just got to keep some things private and special". This statement was followed by MFC stating "Essentially it's like any other day" These two statements are probably edited together. Her statement seems like she is making up a Hallmark occasion to avoid giving an exact timeline and just is really odd. I urge anyone to re-listen to this first statement. She even laughs in it when retelling it on the words "because I've".

12.48 FFC carer confirms "I always open up the sliding door that's on the verandah looking out back down Benaroon Drive"
Someone queried a few threads ago if this sliding door was open, giving William access to the balcony

Then goes on to confirm there are Kookaburras in the area. I live on the upper North Shore which is why I started following this case.
We have many Kookaburras in the area. They live as families in hollow parts of trees. I think it might be during their mating season or nesting season but the make a great deal of noise from about October to February. They make noise, a lot of loud laughing noises, just before dawn at about 4.30 am to 5am. My kid gets woken and doesn't go back to sleep. Many people in the area get woken and don't go back to sleep. We also have an owl in the other direction that hoots for long periods on many nights. My kid doesn't have a sleep problem. We have a native bird problem. Just mentioning this as one possible reason for William's alleged bad sleep in a house on the Upper North Shore.

My last point is purely my opinion and am putting it out there just to see if it is perhaps me that has the unrealistic view.
I speculate that FFC and FGM had somewhat unrealistic expectations regarding William's behaviour on that morning.
He was 3. He had been picked up at approx 4 pm and then spent 4(?)-4.5(?) hours in a car with a couple of brief stops. He was then put to bed.
The next morning he was reported as being full of energy. This to me is totally normal for a kid that has been stationary for all the previous evening and night. In that situation, at three years of age, both my boys would have sat down and coloured in for no more than 3 minutes and played with dice for precisely zero minutes. They would not be sitting down quietly doing anything. As I said maybe it's just me and my kids are out of control.
Apologies for going on so long.
I wanted to raise these things for a while now but didn't want to derail the thread when it was fast moving on one topic.

I really like your 2.51 reference. Surely every bit of information should be on the table in case any little detail is important! I have not read/remembered this before. Thanks for sharing

 

[JWSleuth]

There does seem a little gap in the timeline...and admittedly this is from daily mail...

* 10am approx FFC goes inside to make tea
* Police suspect he went missing between 10:05am and 10:20am.
* Father texts to say on way home at 10:30am (from what I gather he was about a 10 to 15 min drive away) so would roughly be home around 10:45am.
* 000 call placed at 10:57am
* First police arrived at 11:06am

So by that timeline MFC would have been home during the call, but she was already out searching before 1030 which would be 30 mins prior to the call she has been searching by that point. I would imagine 5 mins looking for a lost child panicking would be an eternity (ie 1 minute would seem like 5 minutes, not the other way around)?

The only verified timeline pieces would be...
*930ish MFC leaves property to go to conference call
*937am proof of life photo of WT on deck (assuming time is not altered - dont know the results of this query officially as far as I am aware)
*10:30ish text from MFC to say on way home
*1057am 000 call
*1106am first responders arrive

thanks so much for this!! Great time and yes still confused! But makes sense on what was stated.

 

[SouthAussie]

FASCINATING..

The article above is from 15/9/2014 and mentions the report of something being thrown from a car on Batar Creek Rd. Therefore, something being thrown from a car (the FGM’s) was witnessed and reported to police sometime within the first 3 days after his disappearance.

Which is very interesting indeed. No mention at first of taking a drive to look for W. Then by day 6, the drive enters the narrative….

This is the article referenced in your post as 'the article above'.

Search for William Tyrrell shifts to place he disappeared

There is NO mention of "something being thrown from a car on Batar Creek Rd".

The first clue to me, that it was not in that article, is that this is the first time we have read of this thing that might have been thrown from a car on Batar Creek Road. And that article is from 2014.

Early in the piece (and not mentioned in that article) the police were searching bush trails for something that may have been thrown from a car. imo

 

[centred]

I just read that article and no where in it does it mention something thrown from a car. This is what was said about Batar Creek Road

"Today we are also canvassing people driving along the Batar Creek Road, who may have been coming along that route last Friday," he said.

"We're just seeing if they saw anything, if they saw any vehicle or person, suspicious or not suspicious."

Search for William Tyrrell shifts to place he disappeared

The other article posted from 2014 that i added too however does mention the item that may have been seen thrown from car and as someone else also posted it was only 3 days after . Edited to say ( perhaps a car part missing from car )

 

[SouthAussie]

The other article posted from 2014 that i added too however does mention the item that may have been seen thrown from car and as someone else also posted it was only 3 days after .

Early in the piece the police were searching trails through the forest for something that may have been thrown from a car.
Not Batar Creek Road.

Other articles said (at the time) that it was something that may have fallen off a vehicle. I think only the DM said 'thrown'. IIRC

We speculated for a long time about what that could have been, as it was just days after William disappeared.


18 September 2014
Police say they will scour roads through the forest for clues that may have been thrown from a vehicle in the search for William Tyrell
Missing William Tyrell, 3, 'picked up by a car' police now believe | Daily Mail Online

 

[sniffsniffcough]

I notice that both of the children's bikes have helmets hanging from them, at FGM's house.

View attachment 324056

Tragic life of missing boy’s father

That's the photo of the bikes I have been searching for.

Helmets hanging on bikes doesn't prove they were worn imo

I wonder if William as a 3yo was taught to fit a helmet correctly and do up the securing chinstrap so the helmet was held tight on his little head.

 

[Milisi]

There does seem a little gap in the timeline...and admittedly this is from daily mail...

* 10am approx FFC goes inside to make tea
* Police suspect he went missing between 10:05am and 10:20am.
* Father texts to say on way home at 10:30am (from what I gather he was about a 10 to 15 min drive away) so would roughly be home around 10:45am.
* 000 call placed at 10:57am
* First police arrived at 11:06am

So by that timeline MFC would have been home during the call, but she was already out searching before 1030 which would be 30 mins prior to the call she has been searching by that point. I would imagine 5 mins looking for a lost child panicking would be an eternity (ie 1 minute would seem like 5 minutes, not the other way around)?

The only verified timeline pieces would be...
*930ish MFC leaves property to go to conference call
*937am proof of life photo of WT on deck (assuming time is not altered - dont know the results of this query officially as far as I am aware)
*10:30ish text from MFC to say on way home
*1057am 000 call
*1106am first responders arrive

 

[Oona]

William Tyrrell's foster grandmother's police statement to inquest revealed | Daily Mail Online

FGM’s statement implies that FFC called the MFC and police before the MFC arrived home….which contradicts the timeline given by the foster parents.
I’m not sure if the FGM was very aware of what was going on that morning at all.
Lots of her statements in this article don’t match what FFC has said.

Also can anyone clarify whether FFC and FGM were sitting on the deck drinking tea when William jumped down off the deck and went around the corner or was FFC inside making the tea?

 

[centred]

William Tyrrell's foster grandmother's police statement to inquest revealed | Daily Mail Online

Can someone please view the FFC walk through and tell me what if anything is inconsistent or odd with times etc and comment would be appreciated. I have noted this before and shared but i am interested in what others pick up .

 

[Milisi]

Sorry I got technology lost in my last post and messed it up. Re trying… so if FFC went inside at 10 am and police believe he could have been abducted at as late as 10.20 am, that’s a lot of time. Unaccounted for time. To let a 3 year old out of sight for 20mins? That’s a recipe for all sorts of disaster. I really don’t think that is a reasonable amount of time and is a glaring red flag. You don’t take 20 mins to drink a cup of tea. You don’t just trust your child to play peacefully in the yard for 20mins without being vigilant in a yard with no fences adjacent to the road! So many accidents waiting to happen. No way

 

[JBowie]

my link had a 2014 link attached . so the reward is not yet relevant .

I missed that.

 

[DALRIADA]

the former riding school is at 158 Batar Creek Road. Sixmaps show property ID is DP550859. Sixmaps aerial view show there are quite a few buildings on the site
View attachment 323939

Put Sixmaps ID no. into google earth and the following real estate site shows
https://www.allhomes.com.au/158-batar-creek-road-kendall-nsw-2439

The details show the following property sale detail
View attachment 323940

 

[centred]

William Tyrrell's foster grandmother's police statement to inquest revealed | Daily Mail Online

FGM’s statement implies that FFC called the MFC and police before the MFC arrived home….which contradicts the timeline given by the foster parents.

Error in post ....Centred answered ..it has been clarified MFC arrived home at 10;35 am and 000 call was at 10:57 am so he was home according to official timeline

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Go wags!

William Tyrrell detectives bring Wags the cocker spaniel in to help crack the seven-year case | Daily Mail Online

WAGS ROCKS!
Look how hard she works to try to find evidence!