AZ AZ - Grand Canyon, 'Little Miss X' UP9859, Wht/Hisp Fem, 11-17, nail file case "P" & "R", Oct'58

[carbuff]

Yes, that does look like a new reconstruction.

 

[Alleykins]

Thanks, Carbuff. I wasn't sure, some of these newer reconstructions looks similar.
Usually there's a media release/blitz when they add them. If there was one, I missed it.

 

[Issa]

Need help to find burial records of any unidentified persons interned in Coconino County cemeteries. Of importance are the records for "Little Miss X".

Is anyone available who can help search?

The remains of Little Miss X were found in the late 1950's and thought to be the missing daughter of Peter and Helen Smith of WY who went missing from a summer camp in Connecticut.

In 1960's the Remains were hand carried to a dentist in South Dakota and on to Denver for forensic study before being returned to Coconino County. The results, inconclusive.

Question is where is she now? We have people willing to exhume the remains for DNA testing and a death certificate but with no information as the plot number. Records found are sketchy.

Please contact me either on this forum or private message. There are families still waiting.

Thanks for any help provided.

News from Coconino Sheriff’s Cold Case Unit, a search is on to locate possible location and exhume the remains of Little Miss X for DNA sampling and investigation. Maybe a family will get answers to their search once the answers are revealed .

No further information is available at this time. See Coconino County Sheriff’s Cold Case Facebook page.

 

[Alleykins]

Thanks for the update

 

[sluethermac]

Missing Person Case *11 years later she'd fit the age description

 

[Alleykins]

Missing Person Case *11 years later she'd fit the age description

Without maching identifiers, we're out of luck. Last we knew, there's no DNA for this Jane Doe, only dental records, and where this MP was a child, most likely had baby teeth and no dental records for adult teeth.

 

[LeenC]

I’m a bit confused by this MP wearing a bra with cup-size 34C and yet being thought to possibly be as young as 11 years old. Not because 11 year olds can’t have *advertiser censored* (I for one was an early bloomer in that department) but because the development of *advertiser censored* is a direct result of hormonal changes in the female body. The same hormones (high levels of oestrogen) also cause the epiphysises to close and calcify. The presence of epiphysises in the long bones is something that would point to the deceased being a child. Which is why I’m a bit confused by the bra.

Is it possible she wore a bra and filled it up with tissues or something? I knew plenty of girls who used to do that when we were about 11-13 years old. Imo, it could point to her being Redman because I’m sure she would have liked to appear and dress older to impress her older boyfriend.

 

[LeenC]

According to this Reddit post Little Miss X was discovered nude and the clothes were found close to her body but she wasn’t wearing them. The OP links to an article where they talk about investigators saying the clothes would have been too large for the body they found. I tried to follow the link to the article but it seems to have been removed from the original website. If anyone can find that article, please share the link. I would be very much interested in reading it!

https://www.google.be/amp/s/amp.red...ng_to_missing_girl_found_with/#ampf=undefined

 

[Alleykins]

From the Coconino Cold Case FB page:
"1958 Mary M. Begay was reported missing in 1957. Skeletal remains were found just outside the Grand Canyon on October 31, 1958 and were believed to be remains of Ms. Begay's; no positive identification was made."
Does that mean Mary is a rule out?
Anyone know?

 

[Alleykins]

I’m a bit confused by this MP wearing a bra with cup-size 34C and yet being thought to possibly be as young as 11 years old. Not because 11 year olds can’t have *advertiser censored* (I for one was an early bloomer in that department) but because the development of *advertiser censored* is a direct result of hormonal changes in the female body. The same hormones (high levels of oestrogen) also cause the epiphysises to close and calcify. The presence of epiphysises in the long bones is something that would point to the deceased being a child. Which is why I’m a bit confused by the bra.

Is it possible she wore a bra and filled it up with tissues or something? I knew plenty of girls who used to do that when we were about 11-13 years old. Imo, it could point to her being Redman because I’m sure she would have liked to appear and dress older to impress her older boyfriend.

I read somewhere very few women wear the right sized bra, like 80%? Can't remember the exact figure. So for me, I don't get too hung up on bra sizes.

 

[carbuff]

From the Coconino Cold Case FB page:
"1958 Mary M. Begay was reported missing in 1957. Skeletal remains were found just outside the Grand Canyon on October 31, 1958 and were believed to be remains of Ms. Begay's; no positive identification was made."
Does that mean Mary is a rule out?
Anyone know?

It doesn't appear that anybody has absolutely positively been ruled in or out. This information from early in the thread seems to be the most definitive answer we've got about Begay: AZ - AZ - Grand Canyon, 'Little Miss X' UP9859, possibly Mary Begay, Oct'58

article about Begay: Cold Case Close-up -- Missing person file: Mary Margaret Begay (1957)

This article about the UID indicates that Connie Smith and Mary Begay have been ruled out: Cold Case Close-up -- File: Little Miss X (1958) It also confirms that they do have detailed dentals.

 

[Alleykins]

CSCCU FB folks said they did not find Little Miss X's remains when they exhumed the site. Back to square one.

 

[FireOwl9]

I read somewhere very few women wear the right sized bra, like 80%? Can't remember the exact figure. So for me, I don't get too hung up on bra sizes.

Definitely very true that a lot of women are wearing the wrong bra sizes. Tbh I think we just choose a bra size that we think fits 'comfortably' rather than spending a long time getting our bra size meticulously measured.

If Little Miss X was in her early teen years, I wouldn't be surprised to see girls her age making themselves appear more 'busty'.

However, according to the Doe Network, Redman has been excluded.

1993UFAZ

 

[Alleykins]

Definitely very true that a lot of women are wearing the wrong bra sizes. Tbh I think we just choose a bra size that we think fits 'comfortably' rather than spending a long time getting our bra size meticulously measured.

If Little Miss X was in her early teen years, I wouldn't be surprised to see girls her age making themselves appear more 'busty'.

However, according to the Doe Network, Redman has been excluded.
1993UFAZ

Interesting, I hadn't seen that update, thanks.

 

[sonz82]

I've reached out to the blog post relative of Avis marie, hoping he responds, fingers crossed

 

[sonz82]

Sorry it took me so long, I was very nervous and shy about contacting him
Ps thanks pavel for your help

 

[vw51212]

Really wish more rationale as to why Redman was ruled out was available...Just seems so mush like Redman I can't get over it
INFO: UP 9859
Age 11-14
Ht: 5'0"
Wt: 105
Hair: dyed light brown
Clothing: white wool short-sleeved cardigan
brown, green and red plaid Capri pants
34C bra
ITEMS: Gold necklace and nail
file case with initials PR on it

REDMAN
AGE: 15
HT: 5'2"
Weight: 105
Hair: Blond
Clothing: A yellow sweater, brown capri pants (yellow vs white? and she wears capri pants)
Chest size not known
Initials of nickname: Pinky Redman PR

Remains found 1 hours drive and 62 miles from Redmans boyfriends abandoned car

PLUS: " To make the investigation more difficult for the cold case unit, there’s a bit of a problem with securing DNA samples for a comparison in the FBI national database.
“We don’t know where her body is buried,” Sumner said. After the 1962 exhumation, there is no record of where Little Miss X was reburied. He said he believes it is likely back at Citizens Cemetery."
Cold Case Close-up -- File: Little Miss X (1958)

Really really curious WHY they ruled out Redman on this case, and I hate to be the one to start a conspiracy theory but sounds kinda like a botched case
I'll be sitting here waiting for them to find out the UP is REDMAN and they were mistaken for ruling her out....

 

[Alleykins]

Last I knew they couldn't find the remains for this Jane Doe to obtain DNA to make a comparison.

 

[sonz82]

Here's a photo of Avis.

She dissapeared from Ragland Alabama in 1956. She was 16, born in 1939. I believe she has family in California and the photos are from Pell city high school yearbook

 

[sonz82]

I edited, because I'm sure I read about a p and r initials link to this doe.
Pell and ragland perhaps?