AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #10

[Lava]

Touche. Last week it was all but impossible to post theories about family involvement (including creepy cousin) without a counter-post that attempted to nullify it.

IMO some folks here bring preconceived notions about a family's involvement and nothing - no new info, no new insight - will change that short of an arrest. But why the need to counter-post and state their position over and over?

Also, I don't say this because I have an anti-family agenda. I thought originally that dad might have been hiding something based on his first appearance, but after the last two appearances I believe he and his wife had nothing to do with anything. Cousin is a different story.

I run several different theories in my head at the same time. Some involve family, some involve strangers. When you have so little information, that is all you can do. But it is only fair to look at all the options. The things that I say "stick out" to me, or seem weird, or noticeably, or whatever I say don't necessarily point to guilty or not guilty. They are just noticeable things. For instance, saying we don't hear from her friends and the family doesn't mention any - doesn't mean they are guilty or not. I'm not suggesting that they lock her in her room for 24 hours and are terrible parents, lol. It is just something that gives a little more insight into their family life - not a bad thing.

But I think it is unfair to suggest that some people will criticize the family no matter what just because someone has something to say after the family speaks, because it does suggest an anti-family attitude, which isn't the case at all. These are just theories, what ifs. And for every one of mine that involves the family, there is one that doesn't. :moo:

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Respectfully snipped by me, the cows are for MOO - my own opinion, since cows say "moo." Or at least that's how I have interpreted the cows!

:seeya:

BBM: Correct ... that's what I use the "cows" for ... M O O ...

:waitasec: And I seem to be using them a lot more lately ... lol ...

:moo::moo::moo:

 

[Gardenlady]

The Catholics who are offended need, IMO, to look at the intent of RC and SC in wearing the rosaries. After all, intent is very important, in Catholic theology. One must intend to sin, in order for sin to be there.

Are they wearing the rosary to be fashionable? Doubtful, seeing as how they were merely wearing pants and "Find Isa" shirts at the times they were shown wearing them, not high fashion outfits.

Are they wearing them to be disrespectful? Doubtful again, as I saw neither of them doing anything disrespectful with the beads, making fun of them, or even saying anything about them.

Charity would call for us to never assume bad intentions - that is considered a sin in itself. So in the absence of any evidence that the Celis's have bad intentions by wearing the beads, we can really only charitably assume they are doing so for totally benign, even pious reasons. May it be imperfect practice, according to what SOME were taught? Maybe. But as Mother Teresa famously said, we are not called to be perfect - just called to *try*.

And that's my last comment on that issue. :innocent:

 

[Pensfan]

Respectfully, I think that some devout Catholics on the board were saying they felt the wearing of a rosary as a necklace was disrespectful to their faith. Not everyone was judging, some were just pointing out that it was sacrilegious to everything they had been taught.

It is a fine thing to turn to religion when you need strength, but it is also important to observe the proper mode of worship, or it can be offense to the devout.

JMHO.


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iTA. Santeria beads are appropriately worn as a religious necklace, but a rosary is a prayer tool that you hold in your hand to help you keep track of your prayers. Santería is a religion from West Africa and the Caribbean that is influenced by the Roman Catholic Church, but it isn't the same religion. Wearing a rosary like Santeria beads is not supported by the RC Church.

The Celis parents could have chosen to wear Catholic scapulars or religious medals which are significantly smaller, but instead they wore very prominent rosary beads and that is what disturbs me.

 

[joedotnet]

Do any locals ever ask people to come post on the forum? i.e. the neighbor who heard the two male voices or is that a no no?

 

[SilkySifaka]

Why would anyone install a camera and then aim to the sky? Makes absolutely no sense.

Someone moved it, imo and I seriously doubt a pedophile would take a ladder and move the camera.

That camera could be 1. Old, 2. moved as it was being dusted for prints etc.

Also a parent could easily just disconnect a camera if they were the perp, lose the tape etc. Much more easily, don't go out by the alley and remove the child through the front door.

I dont think it means anything.

 

[Knox]

One of the worst is Joel Osteen. Drives me nuts. But, I think it is a habit. I know I was shocked one time when I had the opportunity to see myself filmed. I didn't know I made have the faces I do or move my lips like I do. It was weird. We all have our own facial characteristics.. jmo

I like JO

My daughter knows what all my "tweaky little face gestures mean" as she calls them. We know each other so well that if someone is doing something weird, we can't look at each other or we will bust out laughing.

 

[txanmom]

ML has a new status update that is sort of strange

I have to say the resemblance is uncanny!

Do we know anything about the closeness of his relationship to JM? That song sounded like revenge/vendetta type thing. I have gone through both their pages but on different days, so I am not sure if they hang out alot, kwim? It's hard to remember who posted what, on what day.

 

[insatiable]

In Regards to the status update change for ML=Google search reveals...it is words to a song that is rather disturbing. IMO

I was unable to find it.

 

[Gardenlady]

I have to say the resemblance is uncanny!

Do we know anything about the closeness of his relationship to JM? That song sounded like revenge/vendetta type thing. I have gone through both their pages but on different days, so I am not sure if they hang out alot, kwim? It's hard to remember who posted what, on what day.

In a FB post he referred to JM as his "best friend", fwiw.

 

[FrayedKnot]

I am not a religious person really at all. Spiritual, yes. But I am super respectful of other peoples' faith. Just because it's no big deal to me, doesn't mean it doesn't matter to a practitioner. It is just basic respect and tolerance.

I cover my head when I enter a temple for a friend's son's bar mitzvah. I bow my head in thought during prayer at church weddings. It's just respect.

I know I said i was off the rosary debate! Sorry!

Please note that I do not think it means Isa's parents are poseurs. I was just defending the people of faith who were taken aback by the rosary thing.

MOO!


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[ExpectingUnicorns]

In Regards to the status update change for ML=Google search reveals...it is words to a song that is rather disturbing. IMO

What's its title? TIA

 

[FrayedKnot]

I googled several of the lyrics on ML's FB and nothing came up. i think they are his own words. And that really freaks me out given the dates some of them were posted. And the times.

I am just floored by this guy. Hinking all over the place!!!!!!!


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[~n/t~]

I am so torn with this case. Believe it or not, after today's press conference (yes I finally got sound after refreshing the page), I thought they came across as totally fake. Neither one had tears. Mom choked up a few times but again, no tears. I didn't even notice swelling of the eyes.
Usually, I get emotional and the first time they read the written statement, I got very emotional. Not this time. Not at all.

I can't help thinking they're protecting someone and I'm afraid it may be one of the brother's. I agree with those who said, it's as if they're ready to move on. It's only been 14 days. Daddy wants to go back to work already? He has surgeries waiting. Huh?

Also, there is a reason that after 14 days, this family has not been ruled out by LE. It was very noticeable that they did not come right out and say we had nothing to do with this. They skirted around the question again. I was hoping to see some .......frustration or anger or disappointment but got nothing.

I hate this feeling. I really do because they seem like a nice family but there is just something not right.

 

[GutFeeling!]

:moo: :moo::moo:

It makes a big difference IF someone is "flaunting" religion as well as "flaunting" religious symbols ...

In other words, trying to 'influence" the public of something that may or may not be ...

:moo::moo::moo:

I am just following on from this post, it is not aimed at this poster - I am still trying to catch up but reading post after post after post about a rosary.

I am in Texas, our Mexican families often WEAR a damn rosary, it is what they do, it is different to the type of rosary I am accustomed to seeing. When a family has lost a loved one they gather, they eat, they pray, they wear a rosary. In Mexico you pick up a rosary anywhere for nothing. I am not Catholic but when I went to a gathering after a death a rosary was put around my neck- maybe THIS family is related religiously to the people around here - Lordy enough already, they are obviously not flaunting a religious icon.

Further south I was given a voodoo doll from a Mexican - I guess witch of some kind - which I would personally flaunt at press conferences if my daughter was missing AND I would be talking and sticking pins That would not be disgracing those that believe in voodoo dolls but you can be damn sure it would make me feel better

 

[Mimiof8]

Im behind who's ML?

 

[MaryAnn]

That camera could be 1. Old, 2. moved as it was being dusted for prints etc.

Also a parent could easily just disconnect a camera if they were the perp, lose the tape etc. Much more easily, don't go out by the alley and remove the child through the front door.

I dont think it means anything.

There was a close up of the camera on NG last night. It looked really old and beat up. It didn't look like it had been working for a very long time.

 

[Knox]

In a FB post he referred to JM as his "best friend", fwiw.

Wonder if JM feels the same? Just a cursory look, but JM rarely posts on his wall. The most recent comment he made to him (tattoo) was a little condescending.

 

[FrayedKnot]

Im behind who's ML?

FB friend of JM. Picture looks strikingly similar to police sketch in 3 girls' case. And other really hinky stuff.

Mods, if I can't say that, please delete.


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[Salem]

ML has a new status update that is sort of strange

You need to link this up, please. And if it is social media that cannot be linked here because it does not belong to the family, a named POI or the victim, then I need to know that also.

Thanks,

Salem