GUILTY CA - Boat fire near Santa Cruz Island; 34 missing, Sept 2019 *captain charged*

[firebird]

No, I don't think we do. I will say that if I had a loved one on that boat and there was only one person still missing, I would be apoplectic that it was my loved one who was not found. It is hard enough to know your loved one is deceased but to not have their body and think of them stuck in the deep would be excruciating. I hope all are found.

Hopefully, he or she will be found soon :*(

 

[BeachSky]

Salvage efforts to recover Conception dive boat off Santa Cruz Island have been suspended


Once crews are able to pull the sunken vessel out of the water, they plan to place it on a barge and move the boat to shore so investigators can go through it.

“As the vessel is moved during the operation,” Santa Barbara County Sheriff Bill Brown said, “our divers will search the area that [has] heretofore been inaccessible to them as well as search, again, the vessel itself for the last victim.”

 

[kaen]

Preliminary indications are that “the cause of death was smoke inhalation” and “that the victims died prior to being burned,” Brown told reporters. DNA samples from relatives were needed for identification because of the extent of the burns.

There are no plans for autopsies because of the belief that smoke inhalation killed the victims, Brown said. The final determination will be made by a medical examiner.

22 victims of diving boat fire identified; they likely died from smoke inhalation, officials say

BBM. It seems odd that all 34 died of smoke inhalation. I am not wanting to cause families undue pain but I would think that the passengers sleeping toward the rear (away from where the fire is believed to be started) would not have awoken. Can lithium battery gases be that thorough in disabling people?

 

[BeachSky]

Twitter
Coast Guard post video of the salvage operations vessel at the site


Twitter
Coast Guard post helicopter view of operation site

 

[TristanP]

Re the regulation discussion, my feeling is that this was a group of risk takers. They were scuba divers -- and not little hotel dive scuba divers, or even day trip scuba divers -- but days long, in extremely close and not posh quarters, scuba divers. Not only that, but they dove in the Pacific (not the clear water in Mexico or elsewhere) and in a location that is well known for more than its share of Great Whites. The divers here will know that even just breathing with scuba gear in a pool is a bridge too far for a lot of people, much less what this group was doing. They were adventurers and I doubt that any of them would be in favor of more regulation because of the freak accident they experienced. jmo

To me, this sounds as if you are saying that even if the people on board knew they would die in a fiery blaze during the trip, they would have all still boarded the boat, and furthermore would have scoffed at regulations to prevent the fire in the first place.

 

[firebird]

To me, this sounds as if you are saying that even if the people on board knew they would die in a fiery blaze during the trip, they would have all still boarded the boat, and furthermore would have scoffed at regulations to prevent the fire in the first place.

Then you obviously have no idea what I was saying.

 

[Lilibet]

To me, this sounds as if you are saying that even if the people on board knew they would die in a fiery blaze during the trip, they would have all still boarded the boat, and furthermore would have scoffed at regulations to prevent the fire in the first place.

I’m not reading it that way at all. No one in their right mind would choose to die under these circumstances or scoff at reasonable safety standards. But most people who engage in scuba diving at this level don’t expect something like this to happen and probably don’t want the sport to be over-regulated to the point that it’s like being in a swimming pool. They are apparently comfortable with the safety design of the boat and probably don’t want a responsible charter company to be regulated out of business. That’s not the same as “scoffing” at regulations.

People who climb Half Dome or El Capitan in Yosemite Valley don’t expect to fall. People who scuba dive don’t expect to drown. People who ski don’t expect to crash into a tree. But all these things do happen and it doesn’t stop those folks from enjoying their sport. It’s a risk they’re willing to take and they don’t expect it to happen to them. Those of us who don’t want to take that risk don’t do those sports.

 

[wary]

I’m not reading it that way at all. No one in their right mind would choose to die under these circumstances or scoff at reasonable safety standards. But most people who engage in scuba diving at this level don’t expect something like this to happen and probably don’t want the sport to be over-regulated to the point that it’s like being in a swimming pool. They are apparently comfortable with the safety design of the boat and probably don’t want a responsible charter company to be regulated out of business. That’s not the same as “scoffing” at regulations.

People who climb Half Dome or El Capitan in Yosemite Valley don’t expect to fall. People who scuba dive don’t expect to drown. People who ski don’t expect to crash into a tree. But all these things do happen and it doesn’t stop those folks from enjoying their sport. It’s a risk they’re willing to take and they don’t expect it to happen to them. Those of us who don’t want to take that risk don’t do those sports.

Well, if people dive, and take the risk of diving, that’s one thing. But I’m not at all sure that ‘the risk of diving’ must include the risk of dying, trapped like a rat, in a fire on a cramped lower deck that offers no reasonable possibility of escape.

 

[Kubirai]

Just occurred to me that the missing victim could be trapped in the escape hatch or in the shower room.

Hydrogen can accumulate around older lead-acid batteries, and can catch fire like Hindenburg. Several submarine disasters have been blamed on that, most recently in Argentina.

 

[Handsome Sailor]

we don't know what the victims would think of regulations. we do know that they died a horrible death. let's get back to the joe Friday approach here: "Just the facts, ma'am."

 

[Lilibet]

Well, if people dive, and take the risk of diving, that’s one thing. But I’m not at all sure that ‘the risk of diving’ must include the risk of dying, trapped like a rat, in a fire on a cramped lower deck that offers no reasonable possibility of escape.

Well of course “dying trapped like a rat..on a cramped lower deck” in a catastrophic fire is not a normal risk of diving. But plenty of people would think there was a reasonable possibility of escape from that deck under ordinary emergency circumstances. Those who have been on this boat numerous times obviously did not see it as terribly risky. It was apparently worth it to them to sleep in those conditions in order to do a multi-day dive. They were willing to accept those conditions as part of the dive experience.

This fire was totally outside the realm of ordinary. It was catastrophic and was not a predictable risk that could be weighed by participants and decided in advance. Regulations requiring a change in the configuration of the exits might not even be structurally possible and would probably not have made a difference in this type of situation.

As I’ve said before, nothing can be made perfectly safe. We all have to consider what might happen in the worst case scenario we can imagine and decide if we want to take the risk. Personally, you couldn’t pay me to sleep in that claustrophobic situation, but I’m not a diver and I’m exceptionally cautious (or fearful) about things that might happen. That’s just me.

And please don’t think I’m minimizing the loss of these precious lives. It’s a horrible, horrible tragedy and I look forward to the results of the investigation being revealed in a year or so. If changes can be made, they should be made.

 

[Lilibet]

we don't know what the victims would think of regulations. we do know that they died a horrible death. let's get back to the joe Friday approach here: "Just the facts, ma'am."

Good point. And we won’t know all the facts until the investigation is completed in 12-18 months. I guess that’s why other topics are explored.

 

[SandyQLS]

Mike Kohls was never missing. I am not sure HOW this didn't get reported and clarified but it's literally right here.

Rita Garcia‏Verified account @TheRitaGarcia
DEVELOPING: James Kohls just arrived on scene looking for his brother Mike. He says his loved one works as a cook onboard the dive boat named #Conception. It caught fire early this morning. 33 passengers are still unaccounted for. #FoxLA


3 MINUTES later....

Rita Garcia‏Verified account @TheRitaGarcia Sep 2
Rita Garcia Retweeted Rita Garcia

BREAKING UPDATE: James says his brother Mike is SAFE!

Thank you so much - you are more accurate than the MSM!

I think it is very important to find out who the missing person is, what was their bunk assignment, were they not in their bunk & where were they, and if deceased their COD because they are the solitary outlier - everyone on wheelhouse deck survived, everyone in sleeping bunks on the lower deck died of smoke inhalation.

Why did the first awakening crew member hear a thump and think someone fell? (Okay, maybe I hear a zebra, but a thump sounds like someone leaving the ship and I hope this wasn't sabotage or a staged disappearance.)

Another concern is that if the crew thought the fire started in the middle deck galley seating, then why and how did the smoke travel down into the berthing?

 

[MsFacetious]

Maybe it went down because that door was open while the door above was closed?

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Speculation has swirled from overheated lithium batteries in charging cell phones and laptops to enhanced oxygen to prolong dives and electrical wiring.

But as investigators probe the Labor Day disaster, attention is focusing on three key areas: the crew’s actions and training, the boat’s design and construction, and the regulations governing the operation. Did the crew neglect key safety rules? Were escape routes and fire alarms adequate? Why was one federal inspector alarmed by a ship that had passed inspections?
What we know and what we don’t about dive boat Conception’s demise – Press Enterprise

 

[neesaki]

Thank you so much - you are more accurate than the MSM!

I think it is very important to find out who the missing person is, what was their bunk assignment, were they not in their bunk & where were they, and if deceased their COD because they are the solitary outlier - everyone on wheelhouse deck survived, everyone in sleeping bunks on the lower deck died of smoke inhalation.

Why did the first awakening crew member hear a thump and think someone fell? (Okay, maybe I hear a zebra, but a thump sounds like someone leaving the ship and I hope this wasn't sabotage or a staged disappearance.)

Another concern is that if the crew thought the fire started in the middle deck galley seating, then why and how did the smoke travel down into the berthing?

This thought has occurred to me as well, hoping to hear soon who hasn’t been accounted for.

 

[distracted]

Do we know who's missing?

BBM and snipped from the article -

The fire is believed to have killed 34 people, but the remains of one of the crew members has yet to be recovered. The other five crew members who were above deck survived the fire by jumping overboard and say they tried to save the victims.

Santa Barbara boat fire: Smoke inhalation likely killed victims, autopsies not planned

 

[BeachSky]

BBM and snipped from the article -

The fire is believed to have killed 34 people, but the remains of one of the crew members has yet to be recovered. The other five crew members who were above deck survived the fire by jumping overboard and say they tried to save the victims.

Santa Barbara boat fire: Smoke inhalation likely killed victims, autopsies not planned

Thanks for finding this...so the sixth crew member. For the family’s sake, perhaps they are trapped in escape hatch as Kubiral suggested or under the inverted wreckage. God speed.


JMO

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

BBM and snipped from the article -

The fire is believed to have killed 34 people, but the remains of one of the crew members has yet to be recovered. The other five crew members who were above deck survived the fire by jumping overboard and say they tried to save the victims.

Santa Barbara boat fire: Smoke inhalation likely killed victims, autopsies not planned

The crew member was Allie Kurtz, she is not the person still missing. There’s a go fund me for her family. Her dad’s last post says that he received notification at 2:18 pm, September 5, that there was a DNA match for his daughter.

 

[Penelope]

I’m not reading it that way at all. No one in their right mind would choose to die under these circumstances or scoff at reasonable safety standards. But most people who engage in scuba diving at this level don’t expect something like this to happen and probably don’t want the sport to be over-regulated to the point that it’s like being in a swimming pool. They are apparently comfortable with the safety design of the boat and probably don’t want a responsible charter company to be regulated out of business. That’s not the same as “scoffing” at regulations.

People who climb Half Dome or El Capitan in Yosemite Valley don’t expect to fall. People who scuba dive don’t expect to drown. People who ski don’t expect to crash into a tree. But all these things do happen and it doesn’t stop those folks from enjoying their sport. It’s a risk they’re willing to take and they don’t expect it to happen to them. Those of us who don’t want to take that risk don’t do those sports.

I have been following Websleuths as well as various divers forums. I know that such forums are not regarded as something I can quote from, but I will say that some of the posters had been on overnight dive trips with Truth Aquatics and some on the Conception. The consensus among them is that many of the divers on these trips are regular people who enjoy diving as a hobby or recreational activity and that not all of them would be classified as athletes or super physically fit.

According to any article in the Huffington Post:

"When carrying out certain types of exercise on dry land (for example, running and jumping jacks), the effects cause extra stress to the joints, increasing the risk of injuries to certain areas of the body. This risk is more likely to happen as one gets older.

Thus, exercising in water is a highly encouraged method of exercise for those who suffer from joint problems, as well as the elderly who wish to participate in regular activity that would otherwise cause problems for them when carried out on dry land.

Exercising in water eliminates stress to the joints and muscles due to the fact that when in water, body weight is reduced by approximately 90 percent, thereby providing less overall impact on the body, that is often associated with land based exercises."​

Because of this, we cannot assume that everyone on the trip would have easily been able to exit through the escape hatch. And we cannot assume that all of the paid passengers on the Conception were risk-takers - I don't think we can categorize all recreational divers as such. tMany of the individuals on this dive may have simply enjoyed diving and came on that trip to be with a marine biologist who was going to introduce them to unusual marine life.