CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #3

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Just want to add to this. I have seen many many words attached to Elisa (I think mostly because of the video) like psychosis, drugged, bi polar (which may be true), and even crazy.

No matter what state she was in it still doesn't explain how she got access to the roof and then the water tank. That is the key to the case to me. Who got her up there?

I don't know where everyone is coming up with the notion that the stairwell door was locked and a key was needed to open it. A key was needed to shut off the alarm (if it was working). Like I posted earlier in the previous thread it would be a violation of the fire code to lock the door leading to the roof in which a key would e required to open it.

This hotel has so many problems and maintenance issues it would not surprise me if the alarm to the door leading to the roof was NOT in working order. It seems plenty of other guest have managed to gain access to the roof.

There were numerous complaints from guest about low water pressure and I suspect that a ladder was left at the tanks for easy access all the time. In the following story about the door lock it is even stated that there WAS a ladder on the outside of the tanks but NO ladder on the inside of the tank. I don't know if it was a permanent ladder or the aluminum ladder shown in some of the photos that is being referred to in the story, but yes Elisa could have simply walked up the stairs by herself, opened the door gaining access to the roof and climbed into the tank. Once inside she would not have been able to get back out. For all we know she was reenacting the scenes from Dark Water.


PLEASE READ THIS STORY PERTAINING TO THE LOCK ON THE ROOF ACCESS DOOR SO EVERYONE KNOW YOU CAN JUST WALK UP THE STAIRS AND GAIN ACCESS TO THE ROOF. (you cannot lock fire escape doors)



The mystery surrounding the death of Elisa Lam deepened Wednesday, as 24 hours learned a door leading to the rooftop water tanks where her body was found was fitted with an alarm that should have sounded when the door was opened.

The door has no lock but the alarm system would have rung continuously until it was turned off using a special key, according to the Los Angeles Fire Department.

According to L.A.'s fire code, it is illegal to lock rooftop doors in a highrise building. But a sign warning the door is alarmed is posted and it is unclear who had access to the key to shut it off.

(snipped)

Moore said the eight-foot-high tank in which Lam’s body was found after she’d been missing for three weeks had ladders on the outside and hatches without locks on the top. There were no ladders inside the tanks.

http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/2013/02/20/la-mystery-deepens-hotel-rooftop-where-body-found-had-an-alarm
 
Flooding due to an obstruction in the drain between floor 3 and 4, possible explanation as to why Elisa would possibly look for another shower/toilet on a different floor? She may have hit numerous buttons not just as a safety measure but as a way to check on more than one floor, hoping not to have to wait for the elevator each time. Or it was a way to force the elevator to go to other floors if someone else tried to follow soon after, causing the person to have to wait. Her playful attitude could indicate that she had been talking with other guest(s) prior to this, probably other youths from the Stay.

As for the lids on the tanks, it would be really helpful if we knew how difficult they are to close from the inside, and if it was found closed or opened. Depending on the answers, it could nearly rule out her going inside herself.

Also, I'm doubting the story that she was found naked. I think it was just an assumption from a bad reporter.

It's possible that Elisa would have decided to use the water tanks to shower because she didn't trust the communal showers, but this would be a rather bold act, especially one day before leaving, she could have waited to be in a safer place. It's possible she went in the tank to hide, but was unable to get back out.
 
I don't know where everyone is coming up with the notion that the stairwell door was locked and a key was needed to open it. A key was needed to shut off the alarm (if it was working). Like I posted earlier in the previous thread it would be a violation of the fire code to lock the door leading to the roof in which a key would e required to open it.

We came up with the rooftop info here on Feb 19

"The water tank above has a separate latch, or hatch, on top of it that is not secured by any lock. Anybody could open it, but the roof is secured with an ALARM and a lock and a key to the door access," said LAPD Sgt. Rudy Lopez.

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=8998881
 
Can we get a moderator to please alter the quoted replies with our new photographer friend's full name and credit information please? Smeizner altered their post, but the replies had already been made.

Or perhaps each person who re-quoted could edit their own posts if they are on the board right now.
 
I found someone on twitter earlier claiming to be a psychic.

He says he contacted police almost three months ago to tell them Dylan Redwine's body was in a high place, probably a water tank.
He is now linking both Redwine and Lam to an occult serial killer.
 
To the person who stayed in the hotel for 4 days the day after her disappearance was announced:
1: what was the police presence like?
2: did anyone in the hotel strike u the wrong way personally?
3: what was the situation of the cameras? Every floor or just the three reported cameras?

It's nice to have someone with recent cecil experience to help us out.

Thanks!!
 
Another question. Is it definitily clear when the recording was made in the elevator? Have been reading something about 2 AM the night she disappeard. And when exactly did she disappear? I was reading a comment saying she was to be seen in the morning of January 1 - dressed in black basketshorts and a purple T-shirt.
 
If Diaz really lives on the 14th floor and the drains got blocked on the 15th floor, where Elisa could have been according to the photos (the picture with the brown walls and mirror is definitely the same Elisa was on in the elevator video, and that is certain because I can tell she was constantly looking in the mirror in the front of the elevator when she was inside, to see to the left of the elevator), then you can imagine a few things could have happened involving her and the tank that would have caused the blocking of the drain, as well as the loud noise her heard.

Elisa could have pressed all those buttons, starting with 14th, because she knew if the person followed he wouldn't know necessarily which floor she stayed on.

My guess is she could have been lured to the top "for fun" but then had second thoughts and decided to go back down. It explains the partially playful nature of the encounter, the "giving up" "no thanks"-like expression when going back in the elevator after talking with the person, and the eventual acceptance to go even after trying to convince the person she's not interested.

Also, if she had her clothes on when in the tank, it's possible that some parts were drawn into the pipes when water was used in the hotel, causing the blocking of the drains.
 
Another question. Is it definitily clear when the recording was made in the elevator? Have been reading something about 2 AM the night she disappeard. And when exactly did she disappear? I was reading a comment saying she was to be seen in the morning of January 1 - dressed in black basketshorts and a purple T-shirt.

I live in vancouver and am 90% sure that it was announced then that the video is showing her around 2 am. I've cross referenced that and haven't been able to find the link however.

BUT as I posted in thread two I feel like there's a point in the video I can make out the time. I don't remember the exact time on the movie (around 1:20 on the movie clip) you can see the time stamp seconds roll over a minute. At which point it rolls to what looks like 1:23AM

Take a look.

Also my question with the time stamp is why is it so blurry?? Seems like it was intentionally blurred to me. Reference the clip of the ghost in the elevator... The time stamp is clear as day.
 
To the person who stayed in the hotel for 4 days the day after her disappearance was announced:
1: what was the police presence like?
2: did anyone in the hotel strike u the wrong way personally?
3: what was the situation of the cameras? Every floor or just the three reported cameras?

It's nice to have someone with recent cecil experience to help us out.

Thanks!!


If I could add another question for smeinzer:



1. Do you recall how many security guards were active that day when you decided to go on the rooftops at night?

2. Did you notice any janitors on the hallways at night during your 3-day stay at the Cecil Hotel (Stay At Main)?

3. Have you used the public shower rooms there? At any point, could anybody had been able to swipe their keycard to open the locked public shower room door to get inside while somebody was taking a shower?

Did you notice the ventilation grate on the very top of the wall on the shower room?


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Unge9Zja8aY"]Stay Hotel Downtown Los Angeles CA - YouTube[/ame]

3:28 shows the shower and 4:18 shows the vent up high in washroom next door..
 
If Diaz really lives on the 14th floor and the drains got blocked on the 15th floor, where Elisa could have been according to the photos (the picture with the brown walls and mirror is definitely the same Elisa was on in the elevator video, and that is certain because I can tell she was constantly looking in the mirror in the front of the elevator when she was inside, to see to the left of the elevator), then you can imagine a few things could have happened involving her and the tank that would have caused the blocking of the drain, as well as the loud noise her heard.

Elisa could have pressed all those buttons, starting with 14th, because she knew if the person followed he wouldn't know necessarily which floor she stayed on.

My guess is she could have been lured to the top "for fun" but then had second thoughts and decided to go back down. It explains the partially playful nature of the encounter, the "giving up" "no thanks"-like expression when going back in the elevator after talking with the person, and the eventual acceptance to go even after trying to convince the person she's not interested.

Also, if she had her clothes on when in the tank, it's possible that some parts were drawn into the pipes when water was used in the hotel, causing the blocking of the drains.


This is the exact impression I get. She's playful yet she's had enough. She renters the lift thinking oh god I've said no 1000 times already I just want to leave. The lift doesn't work and she goes back out. She motions with her hands and counts on her fingers. That counting and knee bending is her giving reasons why she has to go back to her room (1 finger: I gotta wake early 2: I gotta check out 3: I have to be on a bus or commuting somewhere). That part of the movie seems so obvious to me.
 
It's also been suggested that a hotel worker is involved. Perhaps a security guard? If they caught a security guard on that tape and made suggestions that he might be the killer and were wrong... Is that slander??

If in fact it is a separate company doing the security than maybe a fear of being sued by this company is a factor to why they edit out a security guard. It makes sense.

We notice such and such security guard up there with her - who hires such and such security after that?! Knowing she was found dead
 
I found someone on twitter earlier claiming to be a psychic.

He says he contacted police almost three months ago to tell them Dylan Redwine's body was in a high place, probably a water tank.
He is now linking both Redwine and Lam to an occult serial killer.

Oh no. The big bad occult again. The irony of a psychic blaming someone interested in the occult is not lost on me. Satanic Panic is so 1983.

A 13 year old EuroAmerican boy and a 21 year old Asian Canadian woman in two different states? Yeah, that screams serial killer.

I think the twitter psychic needs to adjust his tinfoil hat. Maybe spring for the heavy duty reynolds wrap. It's amazing the people who crawl out of the woodwork to latch onto people's misfortune, isn't it?


(Oh, and jellybeanz, the COW again! Gah, it keeps licking my screen!)
 
This is the exact impression I get. She's playful yet she's had enough. She renters the lift thinking oh god I've said no 1000 times already I just want to leave. The lift doesn't work and she goes back out. She motions with her hands and counts on her fingers. That counting and knee bending is her giving reasons why she has to go back to her room (1 finger: I gotta wake early 2: I gotta check out 3: I have to be on a bus or commuting somewhere). That part of the movie seems so obvious to me.



Can you read through my analysis of the CCTV video and give me your impression on what you think of it -- compared to your analysis. I just want to know what you think about this.

I believe that when she first entered the elevator, she had no feeling of immediate danger or any indication she was playing 'a game of hide and seek' as some people here have theorized.








Here is my scenario of what happened in that CCTV recording.



[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TjVBpyTeZM"]Elisa Lam Video - YouTube[/ame]


we6I2JX.jpg



The buttons she presses on the middle row from top to bottom:

14 10, 7, 4 (the floor of her hotel room), M (mezzanine), B (basement) and finally the DOOR HOLD button on the very bottom.

Based on a clarification, she wasn't on the 14th floor, but below it. However, I personally believe she is on the 15th floor in this video. I still believe her destination was the 4th floor.

0:11 Right when she is about to press the final button on the bottom, the DOOR HOLD button (refer to the picture on my reply post), notice the elevator door about to close.

It is only then when she presses the DOOR HOLD button that the elevator door retracts, and remains open.

0:13 Elisa backs up and waits for the elevator to close as normal. However it takes too long and then she begins to wonder if somebody is outside the hallway preventing the door from closing




0:23 Elisa slowly and cautiously steps forward to investigate the hallway. She carefully lunges out quick to get a quick peek out the hallway - but nobody is outside.

0:25 Elisa steps back into the elevator, bemused at finding nobody outside the hallway. I can imagine right now, her feeling nervous and confused. She wonders to herself, "is it a ghost??" "Is somebody outside the elevator?"

She spooks her self, and backs into the elevator wall, and into the corner


0:39 she musters up the courage again to step out the elevator to see if anybody is outside. Slowly taking cautious steps since there is a hallway on the left and right, and anybody is able to hide around the corner there.


0:57 At this point, security guards in the CCTV monitor room, watching her every move via the CCTV camera in the elevator get concerned, and one of them is dispatched to take the second elevator next to the one Elisa is in up to the mystery floor Elisa is on in this video.

1:12 Elisa stands outside the elevator, back against the wall. She wonders if there is a problem with the elevator sensor and waits to see if it will close if she is out of the elevator




1:27 After waiting for so long for the elevator to work, with no luck - Elisa becomes frustrated and panics. She puts her hands on her head and gets back in the elevator as if to say "oh my god, why isn't this elevator working??"

This is when she gives a second attempt, to press ALL off the buttons again, only on the middle row to see if it will work. Unknowingly, she presses the DOOR HOLD button multiple times, triggering it on and off and on, resetting the door hold timer.




1:56 Elisa steps out the elevator again, and by this time, the security guard using the other elevator beside the one Elisa is in finally reaches up the floor she's on.

He steps out, away from camera view from the 1st elevator and calls out to? Elisa asking what is going on.

Elisa is surprised, and then gestures toward the elevator explaining her dilemma with the elevator not working. The guard asks her how many times she (still figuring out what), and Elisa uses her fingers to count 3 times.






I believe that Elisa Lam was looking for a public shower room that was vacant since the one on the 4th floor was occupied.


And now knowing that the shower rooms are next to the toilet rooms, and also being shown that there is a vent at the wall for somebody to spy on somebody taking a shower, I'm sure Elisa caught somebody spying on her while taking a shower, and then threatened the person by calling security, which led to her untimely death when the person got nervous and killed her to shut her up.



Originally Posted by Ruth&Montgomery View Post
Kind of an aside, but the comment on Yelp by the girl who was ogled through the vent in the shower.. you can see how the vent adjoins the washroom next door in this video that Arnold originally posted, and how, covered in soap, it would be near impossible to run outside and stand outside the washroom door waiting for the peeping tom to come out to confront him. Knowing this, if I ever stayed there, I'd take something to cover the vent when I showered!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Unge9Zja8aY

3:28 shows the shower and 4:18 shows the vent up high in washroom next door..



[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Unge9Zja8aY"]Stay Hotel Downtown Los Angeles CA - YouTube[/ame]

She must of been too stubborn to go back to her hotel room to get her glasses, which is why she is seen having trouble seeing the buttons on the elevator, and then taking a gamble to press the entire column hoping she'll get to her 4th floor from the mystery floor, but she unknowingly pressed the DOOR HOLD button as well.
 
To the person who stayed in the hotel for 4 days the day after her disappearance was announced:
1: what was the police presence like?
2: did anyone in the hotel strike u the wrong way personally?
3: what was the situation of the cameras? Every floor or just the three reported cameras?

It's nice to have someone with recent cecil experience to help us out.

Thanks!!

I'm not sure if you are referring to me but I did stay at the hotel about 8 days after the disappearance of elisa. I had posted the wrong dates of my stay in my first post so I'm assuming you are talking to me. Anyway here is my response to your questions.

1. We did not see any police at all while we stayed there. We weren't there during the day though.
2. No one stood out honestly. There were definitely people that seemed sketchy but they were mostly outside of the hotel. The security guards seemed like the unfriendly idiots that usually work security jobs. Honestly I could see a security guard being involved in this.
3. As for cameras... I did not notice too many. Obviously in the elevator and I seem to remember some in the hallways but I'm not sure how many.
 
Oh no. The big bad occult again. The irony of a psychic blaming someone interested in the occult is not lost on me. Satanic Panic is so 1983.

A 13 year old EuroAmerican boy and a 21 year old Asian Canadian woman in two different states? Yeah, that screams serial killer.

I think the twitter psychic needs to adjust his tinfoil hat. Maybe spring for the heavy duty reynolds wrap. It's amazing the people who crawl out of the woodwork to latch onto people's misfortune, isn't it?


(Oh, and jellybeanz, the COW again! Gah, it keeps licking my screen!)

I dont know bout this but,,... U can say what ever u want to say but bad people with bad intentions and intrest/motivation in occult do exist and act... If u like it or believe in it or not.
 
Here's the view from behind the front desk of the lobby at the Cecil Hotel:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1ZywwLnSQo"]Kaum2009 Cecil - YouTube[/ame]

I wonder if they even have an area where a security guard watches footage from the elevators? I don't see one in that area, but it could be somewhere else or behind the guy filming?
 
Can we all agree that the floor she is most likely to be on is this one?

HjEFuNP.jpg


Same wooden horizontal bar, same wall color, same floor, same vertical columns, same light fixture seen in the top right corner in the elevator video.

And the mirror? Elisa is definitely looking into it directly numerous times in the video to see further than she can from where she stands.

So now, can anyone confirm WHICH floor that picture is from?

Second, I think we can agree that Diaz is on the 14th floor (you can't trust a single report, same with the naked body aspect), and that therefore means the sound her heard was above, and the drain blocked and flooding between the 14th and 15th floor.

This makes everything far more logical to me.

If this is all true, then I believe the body language makes even more sense, and once again leads me to believe that all talks of drugs and psychosis are way off:

1- Elisa was invited to fool around on the rooftop by someone, probably a youth she has been talking to earlier.
2- She agreed, hence why she ends up on the 15th floor. She may or may have not actually gone on the roof when the video has started, and if she did she may or may not have made the white graffiti that has similarities to her handwriting.
3- She decides to go back to her floor. She may or may not expect the person to follow her. If she was on the roof before, it is possible that she took a head start when deciding to leave, and hence might be waiting or not caring if the other follows, she has decided she is not staying there (thinking they might get caught by hotel staff).
4- When the video starts, she is not in a fearful mood, she is in fact even slightly cheerful (as seen by the way she makes an exaggerated motion when pushing the first button, floor 14th). She was having fun or a laugh with the person(s), but is merely done for the night, heading back to her floor.
5- The reason she hits multiple floors is because Elisa read up on tips about staying safe since she is a woman traveling solo:

Travel Crime Prevention Tips

Elevators
• When riding on an elevator, always stand next to the elevator controls.
• Do not enter an elevator if it is occupied by anyone you consider to be suspicious.
• If someone is watching when you enter an elevator, press several floor buttons so they will
not know which floor you got off on. Notify the front desk if the person made you feel
uncomfortable.

It's just a safety precaution, she is either expecting the person she was with to follow or not to follow.

6- The doors don't close, because she hit the door hold button. She thinks the person is the one who kept it open. But after waiting a short moment, the person doesn't show up.

7- She thinks the person is fooling with her (normal to expect this, the person is certainly more of a prankster than she could be). This fits with the playful prior attitude. The way she looks out quickly indicates play, not someone truly afraid. But not seeing anyone, she's a bit worried, because the doors could not have remained opened on their own in her mind, she thinks the person moved back hiding behind the corner, which is creepy to her.

8- She hides a bit and waits.

9- Decides to peek out, and as she peeks out the person shows up.

10- The person walks towards her, and she steps backward instinctively to prevent the door from shutting and to make room for the person to come in too.

11- Then she steps forward as the person stops as well, realizing the person is not going in, so she isn't going to stand inside the elevator, as the person is probably talking to her.

12- The person is trying to convince her of something, her hands let go, and all she is thinking is "ugh, I really don't feel like it", putting her hands on her head, trying to indicate she isn't really in the mood, a bit fed up.

13- When she goes back in, her hands on the wall, smile on her face, she is thinking trying to show that she is tired (more emphasis than hands on head), and not angry, but tired and not interested.

14- She pushes numerous buttons again. Nothing works.

15- She steps out again, resuming talk with the person. Explains the elevator doesn't work, laughs at 2:10, then cracks her fingers to undo stress or she is listing something (have to get up tomorrow early, etc.).

16- Puts back her hands on her head as she leaves with the person, giving up.

A loud noise is also heard at some point: possibly someone stepping or jumping down onto the tank from the top of the maintenance building, rather than climbing up the ladder? It's possible the person climbed up the maintenance building ladder before even seeing the water tanks, and then jumped on the tanks himself from the top of that building, causing a loud bang. After being on it, he realized there is a ladder and asks her to go around and up the ladder if she doesn't want to jump.

Not sure how Elisa ends up in the tank though.

It's also possible that the person killed her on the top of the maintenance building, and dropped her body on the water tank (which just happens to be one of the two that is the closest to the maintenance building), causing a loud reverberation. Then puts her body and potentially some or all of clothes in as well.

I am certain she was dead when inside, otherwise she could have banged on the tank and screamed a lot, which would have probably reverberated loudly.

Then her clothes possibly go through the drain inside the water tank, causing a flood between floor 14th and 15th.
 
It could happen but a few things stand out. It would make more sense to go to t he top of the maintenance room than the tanks. He could then lower the body onto the tank.

Also, I just don't see her going in on her own and choosing that tank. Why not the tank with the ladder attached? IMO, she was murdered and then dropped onto that tank, then placed inside. Either the person could not manuever the body to be placed in the tank with the ladder attached and was forced to choose that tank because of The proximity to the maintenance roof, maybe thinking a tank slightly more difficult to reach by someone else might keep it hidden longer if they search the roof. It is possible that the person who hid her body might have picked that tank because the pipes run through it. Perhaps thinking fresh water would be constant in the tank.. I don't know anymore!!! :banghead: . I think the lowering of the body makes the most sense..
Speaking of pipes, I wonder why the pipes are broken. They said the hotel was to be closed till Tuesday to fix the pipes. I wonder if they are examining the insides of the pipes for any evidence.
 
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