CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #3

[kunibob]

Is this her tumblr account? There's posts the day before her body was found but I was under the impression she'd be in the tank for more than a few hours?

BTW hi all new to the forum...

Welcome to the forum!!

That is her Tumblr, yes! I covered this a couple times in these threads, but man these threads move FAST, so it is so easy to miss little posts here and there -- Tumblr has an auto-queue/pre-dated system that is a popular feature, and her queued posts are consistent with typical Tumblr use. Hope that clears up the mystery.

 

[medsleuth]

To my eye when she first enters she is purposeful but not panicked. She doesn't flail at the buttons rather she crouched down and specifically presses four or five buttons in the middle columns. Seems like she is playing some kind of a prank. Or perhaps she specifically wants to see those floors - an adventure as she's not supposed to be on those floors but rather is supposed to be in her Stay hostel. I don't think she is fleeing. If she was fleeing I would

a) Press the 1st floor. or
b) Press the 1st floor over and over and over. or
c) Pound and the button panel. or
d) Press at buttons blindly and hurriedly.
e) Crawl into a ball.

I like your thought of her trying to avoid the security guard. That would fit with a young person exploring an old building (via the stairs) and not really being where she would be. When I was a teen I had access to a city opera house where I could get up in the ceiling and out to the roof next to the gargoyles and see the whole city. It was quite fun being somewhere I should not be.

Okay then.

At what point in the video do you think she's being followed by an attacker?

Elisa Lam Video - YouTube

I would also like to know how you feel her state was when she first entered the elevator for the first time if you don't mind.

Did you think she was trying to escape somebody?




And just another note, security would be monitoring her via the CCTV camera on the elevator. If they noticed something strange happening, or just the fact the elevator wasn't working -- they could of just radioed a security guard on one of the hallway floors to take the stairwell to intercept Elisa.

For example, say Elisa was on the 15th or 14th floor and the security guard was on the 10th floor.

Security staff on the ground floor (wherever the security monitor room is) radio all the available security guards on duty at the hotel about Elisa and the closest security guard picks up the dispatch and then goes to investigate, taking the staircase all the way up on her floor -- prompting Elisa to turn to the hallway and then appear to be conversing with a person off camera at 1:55 in the video

 

[morphee]

I feel this is how Elisa felt. Since she forgot her glasses, she must of still memorized the 4th floor button was on the middle row, but wasn't confident enough to know where it exactly was. So she took a gamble and pressed ALL the buttons on the middle row (unbeknownst of the DOOR HOLD button) just to be sure.

Just made me think of an alternate explanation to toss out. What if Elisa considered going back to her room, but actually wanted to be, or at least appear to be “stuck” on that floor, maybe waiting for someone she knew or liked on that floor to catch up to the elevator, or notice that she hadn’t left? If she had to explain further, she could say that she accidentally leaned on the panel in that spot, which would explain how the entire center row and door hold button were pushed. She then had either an actual interaction with the person, or was play-acting to herself about it.

 

[walklikeacat]

My further thoughts are about the investigation on the roof top. We have all been seeing those live footage by the KTLA helicopter the day she was found. And we have seen all those people up on the roof. I don´t know in what time KTLA came by in the air but both LAFD and LAPD where there around 10 am.

Could they really manage to collect DNA, fingerprints, hair residues and so on during this day while a whole bunch of people seem to be walking around everywhere? Yes, I know it was raining but you could collect fingerprints even if it had been raining.

And my other question. What about that room directly to the right when you have passed the elevators on your left side. In that direction where Elisa disappeared. Is it a guestroom and a kitchen? Did she come out of that in he first place? And the following question must be...who is actually living on floor 14?

 

[Turk February]

To my eye when she first enters she is purposeful but not panicked. She doesn't flail at the buttons rather she crouched down and specifically presses four or five buttons in the middle columns. Seems like she is playing some kind of a prank. Or perhaps she specifically wants to see those floors - an adventure as she's not supposed to be on those floors but rather is supposed to be in her Stay hostel. I don't think she is fleeing. If she was fleeing I would

a) Press the 1st floor. or
b) Press the 1st floor over and over and over. or
c) Pound and the button panel. or
d) Press at buttons blindly and hurriedly.
e) Crawl into a ball.

I like your thought of her trying to avoid the security guard. That would fit with a young person exploring an old building (via the stairs) and not really being where she would be. When I was a teen I had access to a city opera house where I could get up in the ceiling and out to the roof next to the gargoyles and see the whole city. It was quite fun being somewhere I should not be.

Actually, I never thought of the possibility that Elisa might of been trying to plead with the security guard who could of caught her on that floor (and assuming she was intentionally messing around with the elevator), and then finding out she is a Stay At Main guest and not a Cecil Hotel guest.

The security guard might of reprimanded her, and that explains why Elisa seems so dejected after she turns around slowly with her hands on her head walking away at 2:23, as if the security guard saying she has to go back on her floor.


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TjVBpyTeZM"]Elisa Lam Video - YouTube[/ame]

But then why didn't the security guard go inside the elevator to see what was going on with the elevator then? What if it was resident instead and not a security guard or other hotel staff that Elisa was talking to?

 

[dotdren]

Okay then.

At what point in the video do you think she's being followed by an attacker?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TjVBpyTeZM"]Elisa Lam Video - YouTube[/ame]

I would also like to know how you feel her state was when she first entered the elevator for the first time if you don't mind.

Did you think she was trying to escape somebody?




And just another note, security would be monitoring her via the CCTV camera on the elevator. If they noticed something strange happening, or just the fact the elevator wasn't working -- they could of just radioed a security guard on one of the hallway floors to take the stairwell to intercept Elisa.

For example, say Elisa was on the 15th or 14th floor and the security guard was on the 10th floor.



Security staff on the ground floor (wherever the security monitor room is) radio all the available security guards on duty at the hotel about Elisa and the closest security guard picks up the dispatch and then goes to investigate, taking the staircase all the way up on her floor -- prompting Elisa to turn to the hallway and then appear to be conversing with a person off camera at 1:55 in the video

===**regarding above statement, i believe the elevator has it's own little area (room) and you can't not see the hallway until you work out of that area. there is a picture somewhere...if she was talking to a person, that person is not in the hallway, but at the elevator area**===

 

[hopeitcanhelp]

I can roleplay a bit for you to explain why she puts her hand over head and goes back in the elevator for a 2nd attempt at pressing the middle row buttons.

Elisa Lam Video - YouTube


1:04

Elisa Lam (EL): Maybe if I step away from the elevator, it might close...


1:12

(EL): *puts hands on her hair* What the hell is going on....

*glances at the elevator door while standing outside*

1:27

(EL): *turns into the elevator, frustrated, confused and at a loss of patience* Oh my god! why isn't it working?

Then she looks desperate pressing all the buttons again on the elevator hoping she might get it working (unfortunately pressing the DOOR HOLD button multiple times and resetting the door lock timer once again)

She would not do that with her back to the elevator.

I think she steps out, the person walks toward her, she thinks they are going together in the elevator, but the person stops and talks, so she steps out of the elevator instinctively otherwise it could close between them.

She goes back in with a forced smile and hands on the walls as a way of demonstrating she is tired/done/not agreeing with going with the person.

 

[Turk February]

My further thoughts are about the investigation on the roof top. We have all been seeing those live footage by the KTLA helicopter the day she was found. And we have seen all those people up on the roof. I don´t know in what time KTLA came by in the air but both LAFD and LAPD where there around 10 am.

Could they really manage to collect DNA, fingerprints, hair residues and so on during this day while a whole bunch of people seem to be walking around everywhere? Yes, I know it was raining but you could collect fingerprints even if it had been raining.

And my other question. What about that room directly to the right when you have passed the elevators on your left side. In that direction where Elisa disappeared. Is it a guestroom and a kitchen? Did she come out of that in he first place? And the following question must be...who is actually living on floor 14?

But Elisa was found 19 days after Feb.1st


It might have been possible that it was raining previously too.

http://www.ehow.com/info_8750605_weather-challenge-crime-scene-investigation.html



Evidence Retrieval

The most important aspect of investigating a crime scene is gathering evidence from finger and shoe prints to hair and fiber samples.

Rain scatters the crime scene evidence by moving items in the water flow and removing fingerprints and shoe prints. Rain leaves the ground soft and supple, making it difficult to get a proper calculation of weight and height from any shoe prints left at the scene.


A cornerstone of forensic science is the retrieval and analysis of DNA from a crime scene. DNA can link a single person to the crime or exclude him entirely. Rain and snow lead to contamination of the blood and wash away hair and fiber samples as well as carry debris to the crime scene. There is no way to tell what hair came from the crime scene and what floated into the crime scene from outside.


Crime-scene investigators need to take the temperature of a corpse to calculate the time of death. A body at room temperature cools at a steady rate. Extreme temperatures and humidity hasten decomposition and make it difficult to get an accurate calculation. Extreme cold weather can decrease the rate of decomposition and make the body cool faster.

Was a bad time for Los Angeles to be raining

 

[techboss]

What I find VERY odd and supicious is that this particular youtube movie seem to have been oploaded Monday February 18, 2013, the very day prior to that Elisa Lam's body was found in the water tank Tuesday February 19th, 2013 !!! (If somone find that I´m wrong about this please let me know)

SO...due to that this movie, posted the day prior to Elisa Lam was found, start out with a body beeing found in a water tank on top of a building, and that it was NOT yet known that Elisa Lam was dead, even less that her dead body was located in a water tank on top of a building, the person who oploaded this video seems to either be a true psychic or possibly somone who had knowledge of what happened to Elisa Lam!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA-Aqvj66sE

Oploaded/published 18/02/2013
主演: 樊少皇 / 李修賢 / 黃柏文
地區: 香港
導演: 黃柏文
類型: 犯罪/動作
編劇: 未知
發行公司: 未知
上映時間: 1994
製作公司: 萬能影像製作有限公司
別名: Water Tank Murder Mystery

Good observation. Does youtube offset for international timezone.

 

[broccoli]

I am having a hard time believing she is talking to herself. She's looking off to the right with her eyes fixed as if her speech were directed at someone in particular. If she wanted to talk to herself, there's a mirror to her left in which she can do so. Also, I don't think anyone uses such huge gestures/animated body language when they're just talking to themselves.

 

[KellyConQueso]

I sped the video up to 1.25 - the changing of the seconds on the video seemed to match up best with the ticking on my watch

Elisa Lam video at 1.25 Speed

 

[medsleuth]

The security guard might have just admonished her to knock it off and get back to her floor. She decides to go back down the way she came up - but the stairs. But while walking in that direction she goes further and finds the fire escape friends told her about as a way to get to the roof... More later.

Actually, I never thought of the possibility that Elisa might of been trying to plead with the security guard who could of caught her on that floor (and assuming she was intentionally messing around with the elevator), and then finding out she is a Stay At Main guest and not a Cecil Hotel guest.

The security guard might of reprimanded her, and that explains why Elisa seems so dejected after she turns around slowly with her hands on her head walking away at 2:23, as if the security guard saying she has to go back on her floor.


Elisa Lam Video - YouTube

But then why didn't the security guard go inside the elevator to see what was going on with the elevator then? What if it was resident instead and not a security guard or other hotel staff that Elisa was talking to?

 

[dotdren]

http://info.51.ca/uploads/Image/2013/02/3_0S145OJ_0.jpg
elevators have it's own area and i don't think you can see the hallway just by stepping out


i give up, i'm too dumb to do pictures

nevermind...this isn't right

 

[Qrious]

I am the one who made the picture with the red text explaining the photograph. To see it posted here and hosted on a different image server makes me very happy. Not for myself, but just knowing this stuff is making the rounds. Hoping it helps in some small way!

EDIT to add: I was not on websleuths yet when I made that picture and only posted it on one other forum.. may I ask if that is where you got it from?

Hi! Yes, thanks for your pics. Your text is very useful.

I only came upon this site and decided to post here as there are many great sleuths here. I got your pics from google image or I can't remember where.

 

[hopeitcanhelp]

I sped the video up to 1.25 - the changing of the seconds on the video seemed to match up best with the ticking on my watch

Elisa Lam video at 1.25 Speed

Anyone else feels that at 1:56 she walks AROUND something? Or rather around someone who was standing in front of her?

 

[jon999]

What if Elisa wants to go to the roof to watch the skyline. She opens the fire exit window but it makes some noise. Some cranky old guy comes out of his room, asks her what she's doing there and tells her to go back to her floor or else he'll call security. Elisa heads back to the elevator without wanting to actually use it. She's just pretending to leave the floor. That would explain why it almost seems like she's acting when she first enters the elevator. Her bluff doesn't work and the guy doesn't go back to his room. She argues with him. She's frustrated with his stubbornness. Finally, she convinces him to let her go.

---

A detail that has been bothering me: Just after the petting of the imaginary dog, a few frames are missing. You can see that her right arm suddenly changes position.

 

[Theforeigner]

Good observation. Does youtube offset for international timezone.

I don´t know, maybe somone else know?

 

[librarian12372]

---

A detail that has been bothering me: Just after the petting of the imaginary dog, a few frames are missing. You can see that her right arm suddenly changes position.

I noticed that too. Also, at the very beginning, after she first pushes the buttons and stands back up, her hands swing/bob around unnaturally. Maybe it's just a blip on the tape/recording but it looks so odd as if her hands are fake.

 

[hopeitcanhelp]

Here is something we can potentially confirm now:

There are five or four lights lit initially, and then four or three after it reaches one floor after closing for the first time.

I put green dots to show where the buttons are. She hit seven buttons, and there are seven buttons from top to bottom. On the left is how it is before it goes down: five or four buttons lit (14, 10, 7, 4, M, or 10, 7, 4, M). B does not light up, because it probably takes a key to go there (lower right "button" has a hole in it, probably for the key).

On the right is what is left after going down one floor: four or three buttons lit (10, 7, 4, M or 7, 4, M).

You can see the different lamp between the floor she uses and the first one it stops on, the lamps are different:

We know what the lamps on floor 15 look like:

Proof the above is floor 15:

We also know what the lamps on floor 10 look like:

But if she was on floor 15, it would have gone to floor 14 first, then to 10, but it doesn't make sense because 10 is brown, not orange, yet the second floor it goes down to is orange.

Which means she was on 14 (which has same wall color and seemingly same lamps as 15), it went down to 10 (matches the wall color and lamps of the photo above), then 7 (orange-ish).

 

[hopeitcanhelp]

A detail that has been bothering me: Just after the petting of the imaginary dog, a few frames are missing. You can see that her right arm suddenly changes position.

I noticed that since the first time I watched the video, but if you focus on her feet or the timer you will see there is no skip. My guess is since the video doesn't capture all frames, her hand movement was too quick for the video. But yes I noticed this too before.