Identified! CA - Dana Point, WhtFem 23UFCA, 18-23, cliff jump, Sep'87 - Holly Glynn

[RoseGarden]

Yes, thank you very much, now I found the Doe Network info, and the map was pre-printed with tourist spots, as noted. And, they mention:

Her handwritten notes on some pages with directions to that Unocal where cabbie picked her up and other notes as if someone gave her directions. She used the restroom at Unocal.

BBM

It mentions that jewelry is unknown, FWIW. And I don't wear a watch either - LOL - too "cumbersome"

From the Unocal (which is next door to the Hampton Inn, where a clerk remembered her), a cab can take either Crown Valley Parkway to reach the Ritz Carlton in Laguna Niguel (it is not Laguna Beach where the Ritz Carlton is located) or can head south on Interstate 5, and take a round-about way back up North to Laguna Niguel, from Dana Point.
I've attached two maps, one showing the shorter path, taking Crown Valley (9.8 miles), and the second, showing what the cab driver chose, which is 13.2 miles or 3 miles farther. She would have made it to the Ritz Carlton on $18 if the cab driver had taken Crown Valley. Not that this necessarily changes the outcome. The cab driver picked her up at Unocal gas station at 4:15 in the morning. She was estimated to have been at the bottom of the cliff at 5:00 AM.

And one more thing: The cab driver dropped her off in front of the Chart House Restaurant near Cove Rd and Scenic Drive - nothing else was there. This location is just 1.8 miles from the Ritz Carlton, her intended destination, per the cab driver.

So he leaves her in pitch darkness in front of a closed restaurant, at 4:30 in the morning, alone. Only 1.8 miles from where she wanted to be. Because he took the freeway instead of Crown Valley. Something here just feels so very wrong! She looks young, she had on turquoise colored shoes, a tan dress, a maroon colored purse/large wallet with open end and zippered side. Altogether a nice "optimistic" combination. Of course, I can't explain the underwear. A pretty young thing, wanting to get to a "high end" hotel, or a high-rise hotel... Long, strawberry blonde hair, wavy, extending halfway down her back.

I hope you will indulge my scenario here: Perhaps she really did want "high end" hotel as the Hampton Inn was a very modest place, visible from the freeway for family travelers heading up from San Diego. And maybe she had cash, credit card, ID, jewelry, and was taking a nice trip through Southern California.

She was a pretty girl, and perhaps at that time of morning, someone took her jewelry and cash, wallet and id, and told her to climb over the fence. In the darkness, on those cliffs, it is extremely easy to lose footing and fall. Or to be pushed. I know, this is a very dark turn, but so is suicide.

My dark thoughts arise because of the path the cab driver chose. She would have made it to the Ritz. Instead, just 1.8 miles short of her destination, she climbs over a fence and immediately ends it all. Something isn't right.... IMO, MOO... :moo:

 

[Ada Wong]

Playing skeptic here, I think Occam's razor really puts a damper on your hypothesis.

1. Our Jane Doe had multiple items (extra cash, credit card, ID, jewelry, etc.) on her person that no one is ever known to have seen. Despite possibly having extra money which she would've presumably invested in a hotel stay at the Ritz-Carlton, she didn't pay for the remaining 1.8 miles of her taxi ride.

2. When she got out of the taxi, there just so happened to be a thief/possible murderer waiting there in the early morning. This criminal, despite completely getting away with the crime, leaving no evidence, and never even being suspected of any involvement with this case, is not known to have ever tried the same approach again. The criminal is also not known to have ever spoken about the crime with anyone.

3. Despite not being suicidal, not trying to cover up for anything, and having no obvious incentive to do so, our Jane Doe still lied about having a broken down car in the area. This dishonesty makes sense if she was trying to bluff an explanation for why she seemed upset and was in need of a taxi at four in the morning, but it otherwise seems completely random.

4. Jane, despite simply being a regular traveler who wasn't planning a suicide, must have told no one about her travel plans. We know this as it's been twenty-six years and no one has yet stepped forward to say something like this: "My friend/girlfriend/wife/daughter/sister/roommate/employee/whatever said she was going to take a trip to California to see the sights. She told me she'd call, and she was supposed to be back in two weeks, but I never saw her again. I wonder what happened?"

The murder hypothesis is, at least in my opinion, pretty out there. It requires a lot of big assumptions to be made that the idea of suicide just doesn't. She is known to have stacked her belongings neatly before going off the cliff (L.A. Times 04-26-94), hardly the behavior you'd expect from someone forced over a fence by a thief. It does, however, sound like someone putting their affairs in order and preparing themselves.

She wasn't exactly dressed as one would expect for a luxury hotel. Her dress came from a no-name brand with no Internet mentions whatsoever (Perie-cal, whose name apparently translates to "horse brush" in Romanian. What the heck?), her shoes were cheap and made of canvas, and she was wearing men's underwear and no bra. There's no telling where she got it, but she was even carrying someone else's purse. Beyond requesting to go there, is there any reason to suspect she had money and could afford the Ritz-Carlton?

I can definitely buy into the idea that the cab driver saw a young, inexperienced woman and took advantage of her by driving her a few extra miles to get more of her cash. There are, unfortunately, unscrupulous people in all professions who will do things like that. I can't be certain, but it's possible that driver was such a person. Despite all of that, I just can't accept the idea that she was murdered or robbed on her way to the Ritz. It simply doesn't fit.

 

[RoseGarden]

Thanks, Ada, all good points, and that's what we need, of course - though I hadn't thought of the cash for the end of the trip scenario. I was aiming in a more nefarious direction, suggesting that the cab driver may have had ulterior motives, and things may have gotten out of hand (fall from the cliff). I agree, stacking her items neatly suggests she planned some sort of exit. Based on the stacked items, I would agree that the most probable scenario involves a planned suicide. Of course, if not much money, in any event, I also don't think she was considering a stay at the Ritz Carlton - more likely a place to pan handle (or to jump from the cliff there, of course). It is simply such an odd place to drop off a young girl. Truly, isolated, and only that restaurant on the cliff, and a dead end road at one end. Very dark. It was this that got me started down a dark path...

I, too, had noted the Romanian translation, and so of course, with the simple (yet pretty-colored) shoes and purse with a stranger's name, I agree, she was likely very poor, had shopped at a thrift store. But lack of any jewelry is still a concern, at least earrings-wise, for me. If you go to the trouble of piercing ears, one twice, in nearly all circumstances, earrings are still there upon death / suicide. Just a question mark for me.

And since she was dressed so lightly, and her travels were marked with a marker on the map: "Near the purse was a California road map, with a marker detailing freeways through San Bernardino, Riverside and Los Angeles counties, down into Orange County," she may possibly have somewhere that she slept, perhaps, and which would have "other clothing" ie, a sweater, snack food, who knows. Here in Dana Point, all of the homeless wear their entire wardrobe, layers upon layers, carrying bags of clothes and objects as well. I have never seen a homeless person dressed only in a short dress, canvas shoes, and carrying a nice looking little purse. This, too, still doesn't fit for me - even if it can be explained away as a suicide mission from the moment she left whatever town she was in. What could fit is a trip "South" that was rather short, maybe one night at Hampton Inn, maybe not. Maybe hitching in a series of short stints, wearing almost nothing the entire trip, winding up at Hampton Inn by 4:00 in the morning. Perhaps the aim was to get here to Orange County, and jump somewhere. Not sure why she had to come down this way to find a cliff. It wasn't originally a plan to jump at the Ritz, as this was a hotel name given to her after her question of the hotel clerk at Hampton Inn. As we know, she had not planned on it being specifically the Ritz Carlton until she was told it was either a high-rise, or high-end. I haven't read anywhere that she asked the cab driver to take her as close to the cliffs as $18 would take her.

So for me, at least, some of the pieces don't fit together as nicely as I would like. But do they ever? For me, as someone once said, there is no peace, until we have all of the pieces...

 

[wintermute]

If the taxi driver was at all involved in her death, I doubt he would have bothered coming forward with the information that he provided. In those days taxis didn't have cameras inside of them, so it's unlikely that anyone would have ever known that he drove her there that night.
Her actions seem like what I would expect a suicidal person to do in their last moments. It is very sad to think about, but the image of her setting her belongings down neatly before her final jump just makes sense to me.

 

[RoseGarden]

If the taxi driver was at all involved in her death, I doubt he would have bothered coming forward with the information that he provided. In those days taxis didn't have cameras inside of them, so it's unlikely that anyone would have ever known that he drove her there that night.
Her actions seem like what I would expect a suicidal person to do in their last moments. It is very sad to think about, but the image of her setting her belongings down neatly before her final jump just makes sense to me.

Apparently, the cab driver did not come forward, but instead, the note on the map was for the taxi company, which the detective followed up on and found the driver with the pick up call for 04:30 at the Unocal.

Here's what the investigator had to say:

The purse belonging to the unidentified woman had nothing inside it, but the map led Cullen to the last person who saw her alive:

“There was a phone number on the map. The phone number was that of a cab company. And the cab company was contacted and they indicated they had a fare, picked up from the area and dropped off at the area of the Dana Point cliffs at about three or four that morning.”

When Cullen interviewed the cab driver, he described a woman who fit the Dana Point “Jane Doe” She had wanted to go to Laguna Beach, but didn’t have enough cash. According to Cullen, the cab driver agreed to take her as far as the money would go:

”The only thing the taxi driver said was that she had very little to say other than that. She was very quiet and he didn’t notice anything really unusual about her.”

All of that was from the Let's Find Them report.

 

[RoseGarden]

Hi Sleuthers, I hope you can look at these two and let me know if this missing girl has already been considered, and if so, what was the conclusion. I placed our Dana Point Jane beside the 1981 image of Teresa Hammon. I also created an edit of Teresa with her hair brushed back from her face, and placed that next to the small images of Dana Point Jane. To me, the resemblance is startling, at least with respect to the features I notice most: The full lips, and the "Nose slightly upturned" as described in NAMUS. The images are below, and here is the history of Teresa (or Theresa) Hammon:

"We were living in Iowa, Mother's day weekend, 1981, when this call came from California. My stepdaughter had been gone the whole weekend.
She had just turned 18 years old, was staying in a spare room at her boyfriend's mother's home. She and her boyfriend had an
argument, and she walked away. She was never seen again……
Her car, her schoolbooks, everything was left behind when she left.

Teresa was working at a Burger King in North Highlands. She was supposed to be there at 6 a.m. to open on Saturday, she never showed up…..

The police were called, and the first thing they said was that she was a runaway. They figured she didn't get along with her mother, since she wasn't living at home, which was not true. How could she be considered a runaway?
If she left without her car…..

We have never heard another word about Teresa. ….

Her mother has since passed away. Her brother lives in her mother's house, and has the same phone number that Teresa would have known as her mother's.

The above is from Strawberry Doll 2.

Here is the Namus report on Theresa Hammon: https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/6985


Theresa's image is from 1981, when she had just turned 18. Our Jane Doe is 1987, and so this would make Theresa/ Jane 24 years old. To me, Theresa has a natural "baby face" and this seems to be a characteristic of Jane. And one more thing: The mouth (of both girls) tilts down slightly on their left side.Do you think there is enough of a match here to report it? TIA, always!
Click for full size images

 

[CherBearSTL]

Hi Sleuthers, I hope you can look at these two and let me know if this missing girl has already been considered, and if so, what was the conclusion. I placed our Dana Point Jane beside the 1981 image of Teresa Hammon. I also created an edit of Teresa with her hair brushed back from her face, and placed that next to the small images of Dana Point Jane. To me, the resemblance is startling, at least with respect to the features I notice most: The full lips, and the "Nose slightly upturned" as described in NAMUS. The images are below, and here is the history of Teresa (or Theresa) Hammon:

The above is from Strawberry Doll 2.

Here is the Namus report on Theresa Hammon: https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/6985


Theresa's image is from 1981, when she had just turned 18. Our Jane Doe is 1987, and so this would make Theresa/ Jane 24 years old. To me, Theresa has a natural "baby face" and this seems to be a characteristic of Jane. And one more thing: The mouth (of both girls) tilts down slightly on their left side.Do you think there is enough of a match here to report it? TIA, always!
Click for full size images
View attachment 39069

View attachment 39070

The resemblance is quite remarkable! I think it's a strong possibility.

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

 

[Ada Wong]

I agree that there's a definite physical resemblance between Teresa Faye Hammon and the sketch of Jane Doe. However, it seems like the general opinion based on the available evidence, namely that many of her belongings were burned and thrown in a dumpster, is that Hammon was murdered. Furthermore, this also appears to be what her family has accepted as the most likely possibility.

The Strawberry Doll website moved to Homestead at some point, but it has since become defunct. Unfortunately, the site itself was never archived. Fortunately, parts of it were copy and pasted elsewhere, and they included a long explanation of why Teresa's family believes certain people know what happened to her. That explanation can be found here: http://icaremissingpersonscoldcases.yuku.com/sreply/306/Teresa-Hammon-missing-since-May-8-1981-from-California

If the details there are at all accurate, they are quite compelling against the possibility that Teresa and Jane Doe are one in the same.

 

[carbuff]

31 exclusions (some duplicate):

Ellen Akers Unknown Florida
Anna Anderson Unknown California
Paula Bishop Unknown California
Patricia Bryant 1970 Texas
Vicki Carriere 1968 Louisiana
Diane Dye 1965 California
Lynn Gallien Unknown California
Andrea Garland Unknown California
Linda Grimm 1961 California
Julie Grubaugh 1961 Arizona
Julie Grubaugh 1961 Arizona
Julie Grubaugh Unknown Arizona
Michelle Jakaitis 1964 Massachusetts
Stacey Kelekoma 1971 Hawaii
Hazel Klug 1962 Virginia
Mona Lincoln 1967 California
Sandra Lowe 1962 Michigan
Sandra Lowe Unknown California
Janelle Matthews Unknown Colorado
Connie Minchaca 1960 California
Deanie Peters Unknown Michigan
Tammy Provost 1971 Florida
Susan Riedling 1967 Kentucky
Ginger Rink Unknown California
Charlene Saunders Unknown California
Patricia Schmidt 1964 Virginia
Mary Shondel 1959 Minnesota
Karen Spencer 1972 Ohio
Jinisina Stonehouse 1966 California
Emma Vaughn Unknown Florida
Mary White Unknown California

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/7661

 

[Ambercat]

I am sort of hesitant to suggest Linda Carroll (who went missing on September 24, 1984 in Crestview, FL) because her eye color (green vs. brown) does not match up and Ms. Carroll has a scar on her hip that is not mentioned on the UID, but I really see a resemblance between the two and their height, weight, and hair color line up. Linda Carroll (who was 24 when she went missing in 1984) is a little older than the age estimate for the unidentified woman.

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/22835/97

 

[vermontaigne]

Wow, I like that match, too.

 

[EmmaliLucia]

That's just about spot on for facial likeness.

Does anyone know the circumstances? Was she a traveller? Did she have bouts of mental illness?

 

[q64ceo]

I am sort of hesitant to suggest Linda Carroll (who went missing on September 24, 1984 in Crestview, FL) because her eye color (green vs. brown) does not match up and Ms. Carroll has a scar on her hip that is not mentioned on the UID, but I really see a resemblance between the two and their height, weight, and hair color line up. Linda Carroll (who was 24 when she went missing in 1984) is a little older than the age estimate for the unidentified woman.

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/22835/97

While there is a clear resemblance, the circumstances pretty much rule her out. Most likely she died the day she disappeared.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/carroll_linda.html

 

[Ambercat]

That's just about spot on for facial likeness.

Does anyone know the circumstances? Was she a traveller? Did she have bouts of mental illness?

After reading the circumstances of her disappearance on the Doe Network, I keep going back and forth --

Carroll was last seen in Crestview, Florida on September 25, 1984. She and her husband were separated and going through a bitter divorce over custody of their two children.

Neighbors heard screams from Carroll's house, and the next day she did not show up for work. She has not been seen since.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1611dffl.html

In one sense, it really sounds like she met with foul play; then, I think about in another sense, she had two children and the UID had a prior pregnancy.

The Doe Network also says --

Carroll was a nonsmoker at the time of her disappearance.

which makes me wonder if she had been looked at as the UID from Dana Point before? Did Ms. Carroll never smoke or had she quit smoking at the time she disappeared?

I just noticed that Linda has a page in the 1980s missing section -- http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81144

 

[lissame73]

I have never done this before and I hope I do it right, but I have some theories that might prove helpful.. For some reason ive found myself obsessed with this girl..

I was thinking about the no jewlery with 3 piercing, the clothes that fit too loosely, the mens underwear... and the hampton inn matches.. back in the day when smoking was allowed every smoking room had an ashtray with a package of matches in it. Which tells me she was inside one of their rooms. I can't find info regarding which hampton in and suits she was asking questions at, but there is one on a road called hotel terrace that is only an 8 minute drive from planned parenthood, which is an abortion clinic. for that matter in the 80's abortions were still so hush hush that alot were still performed in motel rooms. This would explain the lack of jewlery and personal items because you cant wear jewelry during medical proceedures, if it was a late term abortion that would explain her clothes being loose, and the mens underwear, tho harder for me to figure out , i was browsing around some abortion threads on some website and stumbled onto a thing where someone suggested to someone else that they wear mens underwear becasue ti was built to support man stuff and would accommodate a large feminine pad after the proceedure.

I searched around some more and read that she had a D&C and also somewhere that there was a previous pregnancy. I also read that a D&C is one method used for abortion.

It also talked about abortion bringing on the same hormonal changes that giving birth would, and that a massive number of women experience the same post partum depression as women who give birth, and that accompanied with the guilt that most women feel after terminating a childs life could drive someone to become suicidal.

The rest is just my theory based on no research just ideas i have. i want to think there was a boyfriend/baby daddy with her and maybe they were fighting and he told her if you go through with this im breaking up with you and when she came out he was gone. Maybe the plan was after the abortion to go to the coast and stay at the ritz carlton and maybe when she came out and he was gone that is where she thought she should go look for him, but somewhere along the way the post partum depression, the guilt of killing a baby, the fact that she lost her man, and maybe.. feeling like she had burneda bridge by leaving home and she could go back made her feel like jumping was her only option. in looking at the map if the taxi driver had taken her the route that takse cove road to scenic drive which i think he did becasue that is where the stuff i read says he dropped her off, she would have seen the cliffs there and maybe instead of him just being a jerk and dropping her because her money ran out, maybe he dropped her there becasue she asked to be dropped there becasue she planned to jump from the cliffs she ahd just seen.

I may be way off, and what ive said may not be helpful at all but i believe there might be an abortion and a boyfriend that none of what i have read has been considered. and if she left home with a boy the family hated maybe she was never reported missing. and maybe the car trouble she told the taxi driver about wasnt that her car broke down but that her boyfriend and the car left without her.. Just my thoughts..

 

[im1096]

Do you have a link to where you read she had a D & C? TIA.

 

[Ambercat]

Do you have a link to where you read she had a D & C? TIA.

The Orange County Coroner's website says that she had --

prior pregnancy or D&C

http://ocsd.org/divisions/prof/coroner/ud/jane/8704457el

 

[im1096]

Thank you, Amber! I only remembered the pregnancy part.

A D & C is not only for abortions. I had three in '79-'80 to help correct problems with my cycle.

 

[Ambercat]

Thank you, Amber! I only remembered the pregnancy part.

A D & C is not only for abortions. I had three in '79-'80 to help correct problems with my cycle.

I know; they are also done after miscarriages, too. I would guess (just IMO) that if the D&C isn't as recent as Lissame73 is suggesting (due to the coroner not being able to determine whether she had a prior pregnancy or D&C and they would probably say if they thought she had recently underwent a medical procedure/check with local doctors/etc?) but I guess I could be wrong about that.

 

[lissame73]

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/l/leonard_birdie.html

the details arent all the sme but the resemblance is uncanny I think