Found Deceased CA - Fang Jin, 47, flew to LA from China, train to Palm Springs, Morongo Basin, 21 Jul 2023, w/ John Root Fitzpatrick, 55, (fnd dec.), 30 Jul ‘23 #2

[ClaireNC]

I cannot imagine that there is no one here who can reveal the exact founding location and timestamp of Johns Truck in Harper .... is this also classified as sealed info ? Strange to me ... but probably culture difference issues ?

Do we know who found the truck? Was it found by law enforcement or found by a hiker/atv rider? The truck was actually found days/a week before his body was discovered and LE have been very tight-lipped about its discovery. Maybe try contacting the woman who posted on Twitter about his body being found. She seems to be very knowledgeable of what goes on in that area.

 

[tarabull]

Yes. It’s a literal example of “looking at the big picture”.

And part of why we are all here

 

[Sundog]

I cannot imagine that there is no one here who can reveal the exact founding location and timestamp of Johns Truck in Harper .... is this also classified as sealed info ? Strange to me ... but probably culture difference issues ?

JRF's remains were found on September 17th in the Harper Canyon area by a hiker, according to media. In one of the news articles, it states that the truck was found about a week before and that it was about two miles from JRF's remains (I am looking for this article to be sure that I have remembered this correctly). It doesn't say who found the vehicle.

The CBS8 news video says that the truck was found in the Harper Flats area, south of 78, and that JRF's remains were found in Harper Canyon. They make a point in the video to distinguish between these two areas.

The only details we have about the truck (when and where found) is what is reported in the media. LE are not speaking about the details of the case while they continue to investigate. This is usually the case during an investigation.

Media information can be wrong, information is not official until released by LE, so we can only speculate about the exact time and exact location of the truck when it was found. But media have said that the remains of JRF were found on September 17th.

 

[slowpoke]

JRF's remains were found on September 17th in the Harper Canyon area by a hiker, according to media. In one of the news articles, it states that the truck was found about a week before and that it was about two miles from JRF's remains (I am looking for this article to be sure that I have remembered this correctly). It doesn't say who found the vehicle.

The CBS8 news video says that the truck was found in the Harper Flats area, south of 78, and that JRF's remains were found in Harper Canyon. They make a point in the video to distinguish between these two areas.

The only details we have about the truck (when and where found) is what is reported in the media. LE are not speaking about the details of the case while they continue to investigate. This is usually the case during an investigation.

Media information can be wrong, information is not official until released by LE, so we can only speculate about the exact time and exact location of the truck when it was found. But media have said that the remains of JRF were found on September 17th.

From the cbs8 article:

says a statement from the San Diego Sheriff’s Dept said:
“Previously, a blue Toyota Tacoma truck was located in the Harper Flat’s area several miles from where the human remains were located.“

Regarding the hiker who found JRF’s remains, the article says “The man did not know the exact date the truck had been found.”

The article included a map showing the locations:
I tried to enlarge the areas of interest, as it’s hard to see:

 

[iamshadow21]

From the cbs8 article:

says a statement from the San Diego Sheriff’s Dept said:
“Previously, a blue Toyota Tacoma truck was located in the Harper Flat’s area several miles from where the human remains were located.“

Regarding the hiker who found JRF’s remains, the article says “The man did not know the exact date the truck had been found.”

The article included a map showing the locations:
I tried to enlarge the areas of interest, as it’s hard to see:
View attachment 455540

My brain is doing that concave/convex thing with the light and shadows. That looks to me like the remains were found on a ridge, but I'm assuming he was actually in a furrow? If they were washed some distance by the water from the storms, as some on here have theorised, they would have to be, wouldn't they?

MOO

 

[ClaireNC]

From the cbs8 article:

says a statement from the San Diego Sheriff’s Dept said:
“Previously, a blue Toyota Tacoma truck was located in the Harper Flat’s area several miles from where the human remains were located.“

Regarding the hiker who found JRF’s remains, the article says “The man did not know the exact date the truck had been found.”

The article included a map showing the locations:
I tried to enlarge the areas of interest, as it’s hard to see:

Those locations are noted here: Fang Jin Case Map

 

[ClaireNC]

My brain is doing that concave/convex thing with the light and shadows. That looks to me like the remains were found on a ridge, but I'm assuming he was actually in a furrow? If they were washed some distance by the water from the storms, as some on here have theorised, they would have to be, wouldn't they?

MOO

I had that same problem with interpreting the map. You can switch the case map to view elevations and it looks like the truck was found at an elevation of 2400 feet while the remains were at 1400. So yes, they could have been washed down into the valley.

 

[sfinkz]

It’s the “several miles” (distance of remains from truck) that is noteworthy. I always interpreted ‘several’ as 7-8. Maybe it’s a handful? My understanding, according to pinned maps, is 4-5 miles. Easy to exaggerate desert miles but authoritative source, PIO for SDCSD, actually processing the scene and recovering remains.
(I had also incorrectly assumed discovery of truck led to body. Obvious truck discovered some days before. Undoubtedly led to a search of immediate area but not a several mile radius. Remains discovered separately by hiker(s), who were informed of truck “pretty wrecked” by LE).
Regardless, “several miles” is a long way to be frogmarched, or to carry a body.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

ofcourse most of the people would have tried her wechat to call her by voice or video ... so only the few people who really tried to use her phonenumber would have caused ping traces ...unless 4G/5G is also pinged ?

I'll say IMO because I'm not a verified expert, but generally cell phones "ping" (it's not really a ping in the strictest networking sense, it's more like a location beacon) the nearest cell tower at regular intervals. If the phone is turned on those pings should happen even if you're not using the phone; it's how the phone checks to make sure it has a signal, otherwise you'd never know if your phone was going to work when you tried to use it.

It's important to know if JF's phone was turned on for the few days before the battery died, because if it was, it should have been pinging its location the entire time. JRF's phone last pinged in Julian on the 24th, so I'd guess that is when it either ran out of battery, was turned off, or was perhaps even smashed. Both JRF's remains and the car were found somewhat in the vicinity of Julian, so the location of his last phone ping makes sense.

The fact that JF's phone is a Huawei isn't really what's important. You need to know who JF's service provider was, because they will (or at least should) have all of her phone records. But if her service provider is in China I have no idea how easy it would be to get those records, nor what the rules are on how long they have to keep them.

 

[iamshadow21]

I had that same problem with interpreting the map. You can switch the case map to view elevations and it looks like the truck was found at an elevation of 2400 feet while the remains were at 1400. So yes, they could have been washed down into the valley.

Thank you.

I know the skull was found a ways from some of the other bones, and I imagine it was further downhill. Heads will roll isn't just a saying, they really do. I've read a bunch of books about people finding skeletal remains, one about Necrosearch, a bunch by forensic anthropologists. Very often, if there's a slope, the skull ends up further down it. And if this skull had rushing water behind it, it's probably why it was found without any dentition left. Like a stone in a polishing tumbler, the teeth wouldn't have survived the movement and motion against the rocky creekbed.

I do wonder if Fang is there too, just at a different point of the canyon. I know the whole case is strange and hinky, but it keeps reminding me of a couple of Australian cases, both of which were straight up double homicides (though one victim from one couple remains missing). Both cases involved people camping in remote locations. One couple were married, the other was an older couple who were just friends. I'm not saying this case is the same, I've just read all the threads for this case to date, and I feel like there's something missing. Something that maybe the police already know but aren't talking about, or something nobody has uncovered yet that will help to bring clarity to WHY Fang is missing, WHY John is dead. I feel like nothing is quite adding up for me from the pieces we have.

MOO

 

[Ilex]

From the cbs8 article:

says a statement from the San Diego Sheriff’s Dept said:
“Previously, a blue Toyota Tacoma truck was located in the Harper Flat’s area several miles from where the human remains were located.“

Regarding the hiker who found JRF’s remains, the article says “The man did not know the exact date the truck had been found.”

The article included a map showing the locations:
I tried to enlarge the areas of interest, as it’s hard to see:
View attachment 455540

I wonder if the truck broke down and they were trying to walk back to Route 78? If the truck was "pretty wrecked", could JRF have wrecked the truck driving it to Harper Flat?

 

[ClaireNC]

It’s the “several miles” (distance of remains from truck) that is noteworthy. I always interpreted ‘several’ as 7-8. Maybe it’s a handful? My understanding, according to pinned maps, is 4-5 miles. Easy to exaggerate desert miles but authoritative source, PIO for SDCSD, actually processing the scene and recovering remains.
(I had also incorrectly assumed discovery of truck led to body. Obvious truck discovered some days before. Undoubtedly led to a search of immediate area but not a several mile radius. Remains discovered separately by hiker(s), who were informed of truck “pretty wrecked” by LE).
Regardless, “several miles” is a long way to be frogmarched, or to carry a body.

I think the ‘several miles’ comment was simply the sheriff’s office spokesperson being evasive. I believe it’s been reported that the remains were found about 2 miles from the truck. And that’s what is depicted on the map in the CBS article.

We don’t know who found the truck, but it was a hiker who found the body. We don’t know if a search was ever conducted after the truck was found.

 

[10ofRods]

Since the Chinese family felt ashamed about Fang meeting a person with a criminal history (after they discovered) , they descided not to explicitely talk about "romantic" possible feelings between them... so they declared probably the reason of their adventure as she hired him as a guide. For our information she already talked about the spiritual character of California desert places since last May when she was still in China.

If Fang declares on 21st of july 22.19h that they will go camping in a small village in the desert that evening .....do you think they drove the whole night to Thermal to go camping there ...even if they where already tired ?
She really planned to fly home on 9th of October .... she did NOT intend to stay .... but something or somebody took adventage of her goodness ????

No, I think she meant they were getting ready to go camping the next day. It was a late-in-the-evening message just to say hello and let everyone know what was up. She doesn't say "We're going camping right now." Thermal is less than an hour away. There's nothing in between 29 Palms and Thermal to keep them on the road (there's basically nothing out there, even Thermal isn't that big).

Something happened. I would assume that one reason they'd want to go to the Thermal area is to try some of the hot springs, which normally happens during the day.

Do we know where they had been on the 21st?

 

[ch_13]

My brain is doing that concave/convex thing with the light and shadows. That looks to me like the remains were found on a ridge, but I'm assuming he was actually in a furrow? If they were washed some distance by the water from the storms, as some on here have theorised, they would have to be, wouldn't they?

MOO

If it helps to visualize the area, here's a 3D map from the AllTrails website. The green line marks Harper Canyon. Note the perspective here is upside-down with north at the bottom, so Harper Flats at the top of the picture.

 

[iamshadow21]

If it helps to visualize the area, here's a 3D map from the AllTrails website. The green line marks Harper Canyon. Note the perspective here is upside-down with north at the bottom, so Harper Flats at the top of the picture.

View attachment 455548

That is MUCH easier to read. Thank you.

It is the deepest groove there, I imagine most of the floodwater in that sector ends up passing through it.

I wonder if searchers have walked, or are planning to walk, the whole length of it.

I really do wonder if Fang is there, just at a different point of the canyon.

MOO

 

[slowpoke]

I think the ‘several miles’ comment was simply the sheriff’s office spokesperson being evasive. I believe it’s been reported that the remains were found about 2 miles from the truck. And that’s what is depicted on the map in the CBS article.

We don’t know who found the truck, but it was a hiker who found the body. We don’t know if a search was ever conducted after the truck was found.

bolded by me ^

From the San Diego Sheriff’s statement:
The Sheriff’s Department has conducted several search and rescue operations in the Harper Flats area since the location of the vehicle and has plans for additional searches.

 

[ch_13]

I think the ‘several miles’ comment was simply the sheriff’s office spokesperson being evasive. I believe it’s been reported that the remains were found about 2 miles from the truck. And that’s what is depicted on the map in the CBS article.

We don’t know who found the truck, but it was a hiker who found the body. We don’t know if a search was ever conducted after the truck was found.

IMO, there was almost certainly some kind of search conducted. Rangers are used to dealing with lost hikers and they usually have a well-established procedure on how to handle apparently abandoned vehicles. This would be especially true if the truck was found after the missing persons' reports were made.

But this area is so vast there's no way they could adequately search all the trails, canyons, gullies and so on where they could have been.

 

[tarabull]

July 21, photo 7.21-9, Ivanhoe Mine Rd, Old Dale Mining district

July 21, photo 7.21-9, Ivanhoe Mine Rd, Old Dale Mining District, 34.056553, -115.697325

 

[Ilex]

Is it possible there are still trail cameras out there?

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[10ofRods]

Thoughts on desert photography:

Taking photos of someone from the bottom of one of the thousands of shallow hills out there is a VERY common thing to do. I dated (and married) a desert native and all his friends lived in a desert town (much larger than Morongo Valley) Every single time we went out to the desert, to dunes, to crags, to the one lone rock formation, to the local mountains, someone took a picture of someone else standing (often throwing a long shadow) and the photographer got this unique angle, if they were down below, especially when the sun was just right. Some people wanted both sun behind and sun in front pictures (a silhouette against that blue desert sky is always mesmerizing and even where I live, people take this type of portrait and enter it into the County Fair).

Here's an example from a distance (but I have dozens of pictures of men standing atop dunes from more close up):




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Neither of those is mine. it is also done in the opposite direction (using a low hill to point the camera downward - people go out there just to take photos of either sort. Entire fashion shoots are done out that way.

It gives a Lawrence of Arabia vibe. It's supposed to look adventurous and heroic. And yes, people sometimes take photos of their vehicles in the same vein. I did.

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