CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #11

[Tortoise]

I can agree with the fact that we aren't sure because we may not have complete records. The only thing that gives me pause then is that the prosecution seemed okay enough with it that they wrote it on the calendar for the jury. If they have any indication that the call happened after the 1st, I think it's negligent of them not to bring that up in the trial, but I guess it's not over yet. JMO

I don't think there's much the prosecution can do with a witness now who couldn't remember at the time what date he last spoke to his brother.

They have to use his best recollection at the time and they can't manipulate that to suit their case.

It's enough for the jury to have an idea that this happened close to the time Joey was murdered bearing in mind that they wouldn't expect people to remember every detail - unless they were LE - when they didn't know 4 years later this would become a murder investigation and a trial. That is obviously the nature of a circumstantial case, it all weaves together, some pieces weaker some pieces solid, but all underpinning the same story.

JMO

 

[Force Ten]

He made $1000 donation to Patrick’s Go Fund Me. Right, not like most of us.

In whose hands is a wicked scheme, And whose right hand is full of bribes.
Proverbs 26:10

 

[MichaelCorleone]

I am currently reading an opinion from a state court of appeals. I came across this paragraph and it struck me as completely relevant to the McStay trial:

“Circumstantial evidence need not be such that no possible theory other than guilt can stand. . . . It is not necessary that the circumstantial evidence exclude every possibility of the defendant’s innocence, or produce an absolute certainty in the minds of the jurors. . . . While it must afford the basis for an inference of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, it is not necessary that each circumstance, standing alone, be sufficient to establish guilt, but the circumstances are to be considered collectively.”

 

[travelbug]

Could b↑e, but if he was looking for a cheque that maybe he forgot about or was looking for a cheque written for that specific amount, he was looking in the wrong account if he never wrote cheques out of the Custom account. IMO The cheques all had the same account number on them, no way to distinguish which QB account it came from, Custom or Contact.

BBM
You just triggered a thought with that comment. What if JM actually was the person who created that account and he intentionally used all lower case in order to quickly identify which account the check was from.

 

[Recidivist]

He made $1000 donation to Patrick’s Go Fund Me. Right, not like most of us.

Yes. I'm sure he did.

 

[missy1974]

BBM
You just triggered a thought with that comment. What if JM actually was the person who created that account and he intentionally used all lower case in order to quickly identify which account the check was from.

Interesting thought!

 

[Recidivist]

BBM
You just triggered a thought with that comment. What if JM actually was the person who created that account and he intentionally used all lower case in order to quickly identify which account the check was from.

The funds came from one bank account. And you wouldn't need to create a second QB account, to have multiple bank accounts from which to draw or deposit funds.

 

[Cricket28]

Who is Baker in this case? A blogger?

Yeah. A very unpopular ex-blogger who wrote a book about the McStays a few years back.

MOO

 

[missy1974]

The funds came from one bank account. And you wouldn't need to create a second QB account, to have multiple bank accounts from which to draw or deposit funds.

But he already had a 2nd QB account, it didn't need to be created, the vendor's did however in the Custom account (was only 4 in total including Merritt and MSM that were added in the recent days) They were used for 2 different reasons from my understanding. All of Joey's cheques, printed or handwritten came from the same bank account per Hanke's testimony.

 

[Karinna]

But he already had a 2nd QB account, it didn't need to be created, the vendor's did however in the Custom account (was only 4 in total including Merritt and MSM that were added in the recent days) They were used for 2 different reasons from my understanding. All of Joey's cheques, printed or handwritten came from the same bank account per Hanke's testimony.

And further from Hanke's testimony
(quote)
Q Okay. Can you tell us what you did to obtain — did you obtain records from QuickBooks?
A Yes, I authored a search warrant to Intuit QuickBooks Company and obtained records for Joseph McStay’s account.
Q Did you also have contact with Intuit and individuals familiar with how those records are kept?
A Yes, I did.
Q Did they tell you those records are kept and maintained in the ordinary course of their business?
A Yes.
Q How is that kept? Is that kept online somewhere?
A It was an online QuickBooks account. It was stored by QuickBooks.
Q Were the entries or whatever happened on that QuickBooks account where they were stored, created at or near the time that they were performed?
A Yes, that’s correct.
Q Okay. What did you learn in your investigation about the QuickBooks accounts belonging to Earth Inspired Products?
A I learned that Joseph had two separate QuickBooks online accounts, with two separate e-mail addresses.
Q And how were those divided up, if you know?
A The first QuickBooks account was created in September of 2004, associated with an e-mail of Contact at Earth Inspired Products.com. And there was a second account created in 2008 with an e-mail associated of Custom at Earth Inspired Products.com.
Q Now, with regard to QuickBooks, did you become familiar with the program, how to use it?
A Yes, I did.
Q How did you receive access to these records from Intuit?
A Intuit cloned Joseph’s accounts and made me an authorized user on the accounts. It was an online-based account, so I signed in using my information, and I could view Joseph’s account. I couldn’t alter it. I couldn’t change it or modify it. I could view and print the records, only.
Q And those are the records that we previously discussed were maintained by QuickBooks and the entries were at or near the time the events occurred?
A That’s correct.
Q Okay. With regard to both of those accounts, both the
Contact and the Custom account, how were those divvied up in the business? Was there two sides to the business, two separate businesses? Or do you know?
A Yes, there was. The original account, the Contact account that was created in 2004, had a mixture of Joseph’s personal finances as well as his businessfinances. The Custom account was strictly business, but he was not writing checks from that account.

 

[talula]

There is no proof that he is a human being. Not like most of us anyway.

Unfortunately he is very real.

 

[Recidivist]

But he already had a 2nd QB account, it didn't need to be created, the vendor's did however in the Custom account (was only 4 in total including Merritt and MSM that were added in the recent days) They were used for 2 different reasons from my understanding. All of Joey's cheques, printed or handwritten came from the same bank account per Hanke's testimony.

I have never understood why Joey would have 2 separate QB subscriptions. With just one subscription you can create multiple accounts. My first thoughts were that someone (presumably Chase) was unable to access the main account, and created 2nd account in order to create the checks. I think the evidence proved me wrong, leaving me confused still as to why the need for a 2nd subscription. With the blank checks in hand, the checks could be created from any QB account, or handwritten.

 

[missy1974]

I have never understood why Joey would have 2 separate QB subscriptions. With just one subscription you can create multiple accounts. My first thoughts were that someone (presumably Chase) was unable to access the main account, and created 2nd account in order to create the checks. I think the evidence proved me wrong, leaving me confused still as to why the need for a 2nd subscription. With the blank checks in hand, the checks could be created from any QB account, or handwritten.

I don't think you were alone in that lol I think before we heard more testimony, almost everyone assumed it was 1 account, with 2 accounts within it. (there were a few posters that said otherwise though) I was surprised to learn it wasn't like that at all and like you say, he actually paid two subscription fees for the same thing... it is confusing for sure!

 

[Karinna]

Yeah. A very unpopular ex-blogger who wrote a book about the McStays a few years back.

MOO

Thanks for your reply.

 

[missy1974]

And further from Hanke's testimony
(quote)
Q Okay. Can you tell us what you did to obtain — did you obtain records from QuickBooks?
A Yes, I authored a search warrant to Intuit QuickBooks Company and obtained records for Joseph McStay’s account.
Q Did you also have contact with Intuit and individuals familiar with how those records are kept?
A Yes, I did.
Q Did they tell you those records are kept and maintained in the ordinary course of their business?
A Yes.
Q How is that kept? Is that kept online somewhere?
A It was an online QuickBooks account. It was stored by QuickBooks.
Q Were the entries or whatever happened on that QuickBooks account where they were stored, created at or near the time that they were performed?
A Yes, that’s correct.
Q Okay. What did you learn in your investigation about the QuickBooks accounts belonging to Earth Inspired Products?
A I learned that Joseph had two separate QuickBooks online accounts, with two separate e-mail addresses.
Q And how were those divided up, if you know?
A The first QuickBooks account was created in September of 2004, associated with an e-mail of Contact at Earth Inspired Products.com. And there was a second account created in 2008 with an e-mail associated of Custom at Earth Inspired Products.com.
Q Now, with regard to QuickBooks, did you become familiar with the program, how to use it?
A Yes, I did.
Q How did you receive access to these records from Intuit?
A Intuit cloned Joseph’s accounts and made me an authorized user on the accounts. It was an online-based account, so I signed in using my information, and I could view Joseph’s account. I couldn’t alter it. I couldn’t change it or modify it. I could view and print the records, only.
Q And those are the records that we previously discussed were maintained by QuickBooks and the entries were at or near the time the events occurred?
A That’s correct.
Q Okay. With regard to both of those accounts, both the
Contact and the Custom account, how were those divvied up in the business? Was there two sides to the business, two separate businesses? Or do you know?
A Yes, there was. The original account, the Contact account that was created in 2004, had a mixture of Joseph’s personal finances as well as his businessfinances. The Custom account was strictly business, but he was not writing checks from that account.

Karrina... are you typing these out or are you finding them somewhere? LOL If you are finding them somewhere... please share

 

[Force Ten]

I'm going to watch Chase's *COUGH* confession *COUGH* interrogation.

 

[Karinna]

Karrina... are you typing these out or are you finding them somewhere? LOL If you are finding them somewhere... please share

Here you go missy, it's from the State vs Merritt
State of California VS Charles Ray Merritt: Part Four - Transcript of Charles Merritt Preliminary

 

[missy1974]

Here you go missy, it's from the State vs Merritt
State of California VS Charles Ray Merritt: Part Four - Transcript of Charles Merritt Preliminary

oh okay, thanks! I thought it was from the trial... we don't have transcripts But we have the youtube videos

 

[Karinna]

oh okay, thanks! I thought it was from the trial... we don't have transcripts But we have the youtube videos

This information was a transcript from the Preliminary/Evidentiary hearing to determine whether there was a case to answer by the State vs Merritt, to take it to Trial consequently. It was determined to be so.
The witness information from the investigation in the Prelim. from those LE that investigated the crime against the McStay family gave their evidence.
This was all initial information to make those decisions. They are made before any Trial can commence.

 

[mrjitty]

I am currently reading an opinion from a state court of appeals. I came across this paragraph and it struck me as completely relevant to the McStay trial:

“Circumstantial evidence need not be such that no possible theory other than guilt can stand. . . . It is not necessary that the circumstantial evidence exclude every possibility of the defendant’s innocence, or produce an absolute certainty in the minds of the jurors. . . . While it must afford the basis for an inference of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, it is not necessary that each circumstance, standing alone, be sufficient to establish guilt, but the circumstances are to be considered collectively.”

This post should really be stickied for daily reference.