GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #3

[gitana1]

Have we seen this comment?

DAD OF BOY ARRESTED IN SISTER'S DEATH SAYS HE BELIEVES SON IS INNOCENT UNTIL HE SEES EVIDENCE

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/dad-...-believes-son-innocent-until-he-sees-evidence

I would absolutely feel the same way about my own child. Nothing unusual.

He is only 12??!!

That's not the same kid. That's an older brother.

I agree.... I am deferring any rush to judgment on anything until there's been a lot more about this. At this early stage there is a lot of things being said, some of which might turn out to be either completely untrue, or just partially true. Just remember all the misinformation in the early hours of Newtown. I'm going to wait and see.

I also totally understand the family's defense of the child and I don't fault them for it. No one ever wants to believe that their child, their brother, their parent could be a killer.

I personally always doubted the intruder story because it never made sense, but I'm really curious about the neighbor who said s/he saw someone running from the house. Was s/he just caught up in the hysteria of the situation and needed to believe in a mysterious intruder? Or just wanting to get his/her 15 minutes of fame?

I cannot fathom the pain those parents are feeling now.

That neighbor thing completely baffles me. What does "recant" mean? Does it mean, "Well, I told a story for attention but I lied." or does it mean, "You know, I think I was hallucinating."?

I don't get it.

IF and Leila are the biological children of BF and Pricilla.

BF and CW are not married. I do not believe she is pregnant. They have one biological child.

There are 3 other children in the Fowler household. I'm not sure who biologically they belong to.

It's a giant blended family with atleast 3 combination of parents AFAIK

Pictures show IF, Leila, JF, another, older sister, maybe around 14 or so, who I think is also the dad and Priscilla's kid, then a little boy about ten and a little girl around 6 or 7 or so, both of whom I think are Crystal Walters' kids, and then a toddler who I think belongs to the step-mom and the dad.

As well he should. As should everyone. No one should assume guilt before any evidence has been presented.

Anyone disagree?

I kind of do. An arrest indicates there is probable cause. So I often assume guilt after such an arrest until something comes up to prove otherwise. Kind of the opposite of innocent until proven guilty I guess. Which is fine as long as I am not a juror.

Also, this was not a fast arrest.

thank you for clarifying! i feel a lot better now. what a complex family dynamic. it sounds like there may have been resentment between the adults prior to this incident. sorry if my comments were inflammatory to anyone...this case still seems very layered and sometimes confusing.

I'll say. I read the FB of the step-mother. The day the arrest was announced she was spewing anger and talking about the "acting" skills of the bio-mom.

If it was me, I would have been stricken incapable of speaking due to the shock and grief. My first reaction would not be to continue bashing the other parent. And if i could speak, the first thing I would be able to say publicly would not be anything mean about another parent, especially one who just lost her child and was not involved in the murder. The fact that that was her first response frankly speaks volumes to me.

These people have been involved in lengthy custody battles. I am way too familiar with these kinds of cases (horrible custody battles) and frankly, I have seen that new moms can cause huge problems where none existed before.

I'm not saying Priscilla Rodriguez is blameless. It appears she didn't have custody and there are usually good reasons for that. But i will note I haven't heard her say anything bad about the dad o step-mom specifically, except an allusion to being barred from her daughter's funeral.

In any event, with so much chaos and ugliness, I am not surprised that one of the kids in that family became so disturbed.

I hope this doesn't violate the TOS here. If it does, mod, please delete or pm me and I will delete.

This web site has a video which seems to show the child accused. http://fox40.com/2013/05/11/community-in-shock-over-arrest-of-leila-fowlers-brother/ It's just a momentary shot about 1/2 way through. He looks like a normal kid. He's not the one in the earlier photo.

Yes. That's him. Some were pointing to either the older boy with the tattoo, JF, or the ten or 11 year old with longish brown hair. He is neither of those boys.

 

[TDW59]

All my sympathies go to this family, they are surely in constant agony and anguish. I don't know how they will ever recover.

I do hope all the family is in counseling and in time that they do move since they are in such a small town and it would follow them daily there.

 

[shiloh42]

I had a friend who committed a crime (theft). He admitted it. He had his reason -- not justifiable ones, mind you - mostly due to desperation due to dire financial straights, and he honestly thought he could replace the money before the victim noticed (it was sort of embezzlement). I 'stood behind' him to the extent that I remained his friend; but I also gave him some tough love in that I refused to repay the money on his behalf. The same was true of the rest of his friends. We made him face the consequences of his actions. In the end, the victim realized that having him arrested would not gain him anything and by leaving my friend free, my friend was able to repay all the money in installments. My friend had two very difficult years where every spare penny went to the repayment, and he had to forego all forms of entertainment and fun. So in a way he was in jail, just an informal one.

So standing behind a loved one accused of a crime means emotionally supporting them while they face the consequences of their actions.

 

[MsFacetious]

You can't look at all the video and pictures and see there is something wrong with him? It's quite obvious.

That's sure easy for outsiders to do now that an 8 year old girl is dead.
I doubt it's that easy from a parent's perspective. They lived with him.

If they could look at him and say "He's a killer!"
Then they likely wouldn't have left him alone with an 8 year old to begin with.
Just like the parents who have no clue what their teenagers are doing, but everyone else does.

Many 12 year old boys would likely qualify as "disturbed." Especially ones with this kids situation.
It doesn't mean that they are going to kill their siblings or anyone else.

We do not even know for sure that there WAS prior unusual issues with this kid.
Let's assume for a minute that there WAS for the sake of discussion.

When you are IN the situation with a troubled kid, it's VERY easy to minimize it.
Especially considering the very limited options you have for a troubled kid. :twocents:

It's near impossible for parents to convince anyone a kid is dangerous BEFORE they hurt or kill. :twocents:
They fight for help and are told nothing can be done if they haven't hurt anyone (self injury doesn't count.)
THEN when they DO hurt or kill someone? It's the parents fault for not preventing it. :facepalm:

 

[shiloh42]

You can't look at all the video and pictures and see there is something wrong with him? It's quite obvious.

Which videos and photos are you seeing? So far I've only been able to find one. I'd be curious to see which ones show obvious "wrongness".....

 

[winterrose]

So I'm wondering since the parents don't know what evidence he's been charged with and also being we haven't heard yet, have they brought the homicide charges? If so, surely he'd have a lawyer that would be speaking to the parents. I thought you could only hold a person 48 to 72 hours before prosecutor brings charges.

 

[blue22]

It must truly be awful for them. One thing though is he says they are standing behind him until they hear evidence. Then that would be a different story? Then what? Completely abandon him?

Personally, I cannot imagine anything like this ever happening to my family, but as a parent I love my children unconditionally. I could never truly abandon any of my children no matter what they may do. Honestly-I just couldn't. I imagine nothing could be worse than this-how do you forgive? And perhaps one can't. But I firmly believe that I would do whatever possible to let my child know that I was there for them no matter what.

Now, I wouldn't go as far as to try to hide evidence, or make excuses for what they had done or even help them avoid punishment. But I would still love them and be there for them. There to comfort them and to do everything I possibly could to help to heal their soul-to help them find God. While thier punishment on earth may be deserved and justified, I would want to do everything I could to help them to change, find God, seek forgiveness, and have a chance at eternal redemption.

This is my problem with the death penalty. I truly believe there is a Heaven and that God will forgive anyone for anything if they TRULY are sorry, even if it is with their dying breath. I do not think it is right to take that ability away from someone. Eternity is a very long time. Eternal love and forgiveness, or eternal damnation is a pretty big difference. I would hate to think I took that choice away from anyone.

I am not a bleeding heart liberal by any means when I say this, and realize other people have different opinions than mine and I respect that. I am just stating my personal feelings and beliefs and that no matter what they have done, children, even those that kill, deserve to have some adult standing by them trying to at the very least to save their soul.

Sentencing someone to death in our justice system, does not prevent one from getting into heaven. heaven is between a person and God. The justice system can't send someone to heaven or hell. We are only humans, and we don't have to power to send someone anywhere after death on earth.

I don't believe they are thinking of abandoning their child. Loving and forgiving someone, does not mean they have to sit behind them at a trial and support their innocence. Remember, they are also seeking justice for their slain daughter. If they truly believe their son is guilty of this crime, they should not have to be obligated...even as parents...to support innocence where there is none. A parent can both love a child and make that known, and not support their fight for innocence.

Obviously, just my opinion.

 

[Dee10]

That's sure easy for outsiders to do now that an 8 year old girl is dead.
I doubt it's that easy from a parent's perspective. They lived with him.

If they could look at him and say "He's a killer!"
Then they likely wouldn't have left him alone with an 8 year old to begin with.
Just like the parents who have no clue what their teenagers are doing, but everyone else does.

Many 12 year old boys would likely qualify as "disturbed." Especially ones with this kids situation.
It doesn't mean that they are going to kill their siblings or anyone else.

We do not even know for sure that there WAS prior unusual issues with this kid.
Let's assume for a minute that there WAS for the sake of discussion.

When you are IN the situation with a troubled kid, it's VERY easy to minimize it.
Especially considering the very limited options you have for a troubled kid. :twocents:

It's near impossible for parents to convince anyone a kid is dangerous BEFORE they hurt or kill. :twocents:
They fight for help and are told nothing can be done if they haven't hurt anyone (self injury doesn't count.)
THEN when they DO hurt or kill someone? It's the parents fault for not preventing it. :facepalm:

I agree with you 100%, but apparently in this case (at this time) the father & mother it seems believe he is "not guilty". I am sure we will hear much more or I would hope. At all levels we need to learn from this.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

New article:

Every night waitress Fian Ngo heard people talking about the brother.

"One table had a child who said 'I go to school with him; he's a bully.' At another table a girl said "No, he's nice. He's my friend.'

One neighbor had supported the boy's account, saying she saw someone fleeing. She later recanted.

"Funny thing is she's a customer of ours. She's normal. I don't know what she saw," said Ngo.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-leila-fowler-murder-20130513,0,5209603.story

 

[MsFacetious]

I agree with you 100%, but apparently in this case (at this time) the father & mother it seems believe he is "not guilty". I am sure we will hear much more or I would hope. At all levels we need to learn from this.

Which tells me he probably wasn't an obvious budding serial killer or they wouldn't be surprised.
They want to see evidence. That means they are struggling to believe he's guilty.
Good to see his father and STEPmother (I'm guessing his mother as well though we haven't heard from her)
have more faith in him than the rest of his community. :twocents:

 

[tlcya]

links to photos of family at vigil

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.town...08-001a4bcf887a/5181487f32b1e.preview-300.jpg

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/.../img/photos/2013/05/01/8a/d6/leila-family.jpg

SacBe photo gallery of vigil

http://www.sacbee.com/2013/05/03/5392923/leila-fowler-search-for-girls.html

 

[eileenhawkeye]

links to photos of family at vigil

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.town...08-001a4bcf887a/5181487f32b1e.preview-300.jpg

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/.../img/photos/2013/05/01/8a/d6/leila-family.jpg

SacBe photo gallery of vigil

http://www.sacbee.com/2013/05/03/5392923/leila-fowler-search-for-girls.html

I now realize what people meant when they say that IF looks older than 12. He's about the same height as Justin, who's 19, and noticeably taller/bigger than the little girl in the pink (Leila's best friend). However, in the family pictures, I think he did look his age.

 

[The Cheese]

Sharokina Shams ‏@kcraSharokina 5m
Experts say first step in prosecution of #Leila Fowler's 12-year-old brother will be to order mental evaluations.

Sharokina Shams ‏@kcraSharokina 9m
The most time #Leila Fowler's brother could serve, if he's found guilty of her killing, is 13 years, until he's 25. #kcra

Sharokina Shams ‏@kcraSharokina 11m
(Continued) ... Why? You have to be at least 14 to be charged as an adult. If under 14, you serve time in juvenile facility, formerly CYA.

Sharokina Shams ‏@kcraSharokina 12m
Legal experts: If Leila Fowler's 12-year-old brother found guilty, he'll never serve life sentence, or go to prison, not even as an adult.

 

[vasportsmom]

I feel so bad for the other kids in this family. They have lost a brother and a sister and I don't see how they can properly grieve either loss without feeling a great deal of guilt in regards to the other. They are going to need a lot of support in the days & months to come and I just hope that their parents can put their feelings about each other and childish FB drama aside to provide the children with what they need.

 

[Dee10]

Which tells me he probably wasn't an obvious budding serial killer or they wouldn't be surprised.
They want to see evidence. That means they are struggling to believe he's guilty.
Good to see his father and STEPmother (I'm guessing his mother as well though we haven't heard from her)
have more faith in him than the rest of his community. :twocents:

I don't think a parent is necessarily the best judge, nor the has the capabilities to make the assessment. Heartbreaking though.

 

[tapu]

According to the article, people want money back because of concern that these money will go for his defense.
Sounds totally understandable to me.

People who believe in the system wouldn't likely object to the family using their money for a legal defense. The money is given to help the family. Certainly the family is served by a full and fair defense for whomever the defendant may be. Since it's their son, it seems particularly important that the trial, verdict, sentencing be based on the best circumstances possible.

I know this is idealistic, but isn't that how it's supposed to work?

 

[The Cheese]

christina heller ‏@CHeller_13 44s CBS Sacramento
#LeilaFowler Family has cancelled tomorrow's press briefing in Valley Springs. #cbs13

 

[The Cheese]

Calaveras County Sheriff's Office

Fowler family press conference cancelled

The Fowler family has cancelled it's request to provide a prepared statement to the media tomorrow, May 14th at 3:30 pm at the press conference that they requested.


https://local.nixle.com/calaveras-county-sheriffs-office/

 

[MsFacetious]

So does that mean that the police sat down with them and explained the evidence?
I'm so confused.

 

[The Cheese]

So does that mean that the police sat down with them and explained the evidence?
I'm so confused.

Or maybe they went to visit him and he confessed to them?