CA CA - The Doodler *UNSOLVED*

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madamx said:
I came across this which I thought was interesting But never heard of before.


A week after Steven’s murder the New York Times announced the first named suspect in the case; Daniel Olivo, age 30, arrested for the rape of a 5-year old boy in a Bronx park on August 20th, three days after the Cropper murder.
After luring the child to a secluded area on the pretext of playing ball
Olivo pounced on the victim and committed an act of sodomy.
The child managed to escape after the attack and alerted his father, a hot dog vendor stationed nearby.

According to the Times, Olivo—standing 5’7” and weighing 140 pounds—was “Hispanic in appearance” with a pockmarked complexion and noticeable limp.
Investigators were unable to develop any information linking Olivo to the Charlie Chop-off crimes, however, and he was eventually dropped as a suspect.



Charles in Charge: a Charlie Chop-off Reinvestigation

charlie6.jpg
Click to expand...

Holy geez. The likeness between this sketch and the Doodler sketch. Does anyone else see it? It's uncanny.
 
Fede said:
A good suspect (maybe already ruled out) is Vaughn Greenwood, the Skid Row Slasher: Vaughn Greenwood: American serial killer - Biography, Life, Family, Career, Facts, Information
Click to expand...

Unfortunately the very dramatic MO of Greenwood—, cutting throats ear to ear, blood-drinking, cups of blood, salt involved—doesn't line up with the Doodler experiences. Doodler was back and front stabbing, always homosexual men, moving and repositioning bodies, and then getting out of dodge. Doesn't check out.

The Awl piece is a really good deep dive into this case. It's one of my favorites to research, partially because so little was ever written about it. It's such a footnote in SF gay history, which is unfortunate. I wish more had been covered at the time.

Interesting detail about this case is the fact that the perp was suspected of "sexuality confusion," or would be known as a heterosexual male to those around him but potentially struggled with sexual attraction to males. A news article archived on the Wikipedia page mentions in 1977 the three surviving males who refused to testify against the suspect they had at the time. It was actually that suspect who was called "The Doodler" and it has stuck as the name of the killer overall. This same news article did suggest the killer would go to bed with the men before stabbing them. I can't tell if that's accurate or editorializing but the article does go on to quote police suspecting that the killer felt shame about his sexual activities with men. So it is quite possible that the killer could have ultimately succumbed to AIDS in the 1980s or 90s, but then it's also possible that he spent his lifetime resisting his urges, or just gave in to them. My suspicion is that he ultimately found whatever peace he was looking for and that might have stopped the attacks. (Or he moved and kept doing it.)

Perhaps more interesting, one of the recent news articles from 2019 cited intent of the investigator working the case to speak to the surviving victims, which tells me the "nationally recognized entertainer" is still alive. Most media reports on the status of this case have supported that fact. I used to suspect Tab Hunter but he passed away in 2018. And I think the term "entertainer" is a clue of the identity, because "actor" would be more commonly used if it were an actor. This leaves singer, celebrity host, or variety performer.

I'm really eager for DNA evidence to come back on this and turn up answers.
 
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My list of guesses for who Mystery Entertainer Victim might be:

*Barry Manilow (sexuality and long-time partner not public until 2015)
*Cliff Richard
*Lyle Waggoner (passed away in March of this year)
*Paul Michael Glaser
*Robert Mantooth
*Richard Thomas
*Wayne Newton?
*Wild card: Michael Douglas
 
1af4530c-f49b-4a8b-8c98-2eef8af3562a-AP_San_Francisco_Serial_Killer.JPG


Feb 7 2019 rbbm.
San Francisco 'Doodler' serial killer cold case has new info, reward
''In a plea for tips from the public, police released a new sketch of what the suspect may look like today as well as an audio recording of a call to police dispatch by an unknown man reporting a body along the beach after the first homicide.''

''Between January 1974 and June 1975, five gay, white men in San Francisco were killed and their bodies found around the Ocean Beach area of the city, McEachern said''.

''In 1975, police were able to sketch the suspect based on one of the victim's description of the man, McEachern said. Police described him as 19-25 years old at the time, black, lanky and around six feet tall.''

''A "well-known entertainer" and a diplomat were among three of the survivors who did not want "come out of the closet" by testifying, the AP reported.''

"If you are the individual who called in 1974, we would like to speak to you about what you saw," McEachern said.''

''Police also believe the "Doodler" was seeing a psychiatrist with the last name "Priest," practicing in the East Bay, and are seeking information about him, McEachern said.''

''Investigators submitted DNA evidence over the past year and are waiting for further results''

??
Dr. Allen Priest, MD - Reviews - Fair Oaks, CA
 
dotr said:
''Police also believe the "Doodler" was seeing a psychiatrist with the last name "Priest," practicing in the East Bay, and are seeking information about him, McEachern said.''

''Investigators submitted DNA evidence over the past year and are waiting for further results''

??
Dr. Allen Priest, MD - Reviews - Fair Oaks, CA
Click to expand...

[sbm]

not unless he changed specialties ... link says he's a family doctor
 
Tommy2step said:
Not a bad suspect, but the men seemed older in Greenwood's murders. It's amazing that police had someone who fit the description, had a knife and a sketchbook, and a counselor/priest comes forward and says " yes, this guy confessed to me" and then...NOTHING.

Seems to me that it just wasn't a priority for the SFPD. The case was literally handed to the and they dropped the ball. Did they actually follow this guy later and track his movements??
Click to expand...

I know I really believe they dropped the ball on this one.
 
Manwel said:
Unfortunately the very dramatic MO of Greenwood—, cutting throats ear to ear, blood-drinking, cups of blood, salt involved—doesn't line up with the Doodler experiences. Doodler was back and front stabbing, always homosexual men, moving and repositioning bodies, and then getting out of dodge. Doesn't check out.

The Awl piece is a really good deep dive into this case. It's one of my favorites to research, partially because so little was ever written about it. It's such a footnote in SF gay history, which is unfortunate. I wish more had been covered at the time.

Interesting detail about this case is the fact that the perp was suspected of "sexuality confusion," or would be known as a heterosexual male to those around him but potentially struggled with sexual attraction to males. A news article archived on the Wikipedia page mentions in 1977 the three surviving males who refused to testify against the suspect they had at the time. It was actually that suspect who was called "The Doodler" and it has stuck as the name of the killer overall. This same news article did suggest the killer would go to bed with the men before stabbing them. I can't tell if that's accurate or editorializing but the article does go on to quote police suspecting that the killer felt shame about his sexual activities with men. So it is quite possible that the killer could have ultimately succumbed to AIDS in the 1980s or 90s, but then it's also possible that he spent his lifetime resisting his urges, or just gave in to them. My suspicion is that he ultimately found whatever peace he was looking for and that might have stopped the attacks. (Or he moved and kept doing it.)

Perhaps more interesting, one of the recent news articles from 2019 cited intent of the investigator working the case to speak to the surviving victims, which tells me the "nationally recognized entertainer" is still alive. Most media reports on the status of this case have supported that fact. I used to suspect Tab Hunter but he passed away in 2018. And I think the term "entertainer" is a clue of the identity, because "actor" would be more commonly used if it were an actor. This leaves singer, celebrity host, or variety performer.

I'm really eager for DNA evidence to come back on this and turn up answers.
Click to expand...

in 1977 they had apprehended the doodler and the survivors did not testify against him so he was just let go?

After that iam assuming there were no other killing of gay men in the SF area again??

I wonder if there were any stabbing and killing of gay men in The Doodlers Style elsewhere in CA or other states after he was released and nobody ever attributed to the Doodler? I just don’t think he stopped just like that.
 
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madamx said:
in 1977 they had apprehended the doodler and the survivors did not testify against him so he was just let go?

After that iam assuming there were no other killing of gay men in the SF area again??

I wonder if there were any stabbing and killing of gay men in The Doodlers Style elsewhere in CA or other states after he was released and nobody ever attributed to the Doodler? I just don’t think he stopped just like that.
Click to expand...

Right? But it does appear that the series of murders attributed to Doodler did stop, so I'd agree, he lit out of town. Among the articles that have been shared in this thread there's a detail where police cited normally about 6 murders of gay men in the area as a yearly standard, but suddenly they were up to 16 and then 21 after a year and a half, and they were all tied together with similar accounts or a similar target area with similar MO. So I took from that quote that the usual 6 or so were related to domestic quarrels or potentially hate/discrimination killings against gay men. But the nature of the crime scenes usually suggested very bloody, violent deaths. Which begs the question: How was he getting away? He would have been covered in blood each time. You'd think someone would have seen someone in that regard. Extreme luck nobody ever reported a male running down the street covered in blood. Makes me think he was seriously planning these crimes.

Also, yeah, they needed the witnesses to testify against the man and they refused. Makes you wonder if any of them would change their minds now if they can bring the same guy back in. It's a lot of years later. Also makes me hopeful that if he left DNA behind then they won't need the testimonies if they can get him with DNA evidence. (Though, testimony would help ensure jail.)

Worth a shot to look up other stabbing incidents, especially white, male victims in California or another major city circa 1977/1978.
 
Manwel said:
Right? But it does appear that the series of murders attributed to Doodler did stop, so I'd agree, he lit out of town. Among the articles that have been shared in this thread there's a detail where police cited normally about 6 murders of gay men in the area as a yearly standard, but suddenly they were up to 16 and then 21 after a year and a half, and they were all tied together with similar accounts or a similar target area with similar MO. So I took from that quote that the usual 6 or so were related to domestic quarrels or potentially hate/discrimination killings against gay men. But the nature of the crime scenes usually suggested very bloody, violent deaths. Which begs the question: How was he getting away? He would have been covered in blood each time. You'd think someone would have seen someone in that regard. Extreme luck nobody ever reported a male running down the street covered in blood. Makes me think he was seriously planning these crimes.

Also, yeah, they needed the witnesses to testify against the man and they refused. Makes you wonder if any of them would change their minds now if they can bring the same guy back in. It's a lot of years later. Also makes me hopeful that if he left DNA behind then they won't need the testimonies if they can get him with DNA evidence. (Though, testimony would help ensure jail.)

Worth a shot to look up other stabbing incidents, especially white, male victims in California or another major city circa 1977/1978.
Click to expand...

Tried searching through Murder Accountability Project and staggering how many "All suspected felony" stabbings happened to white males in Los Angeles 1977-1981. San Diego had 3-4 but LA was like 40. Really hard to search online for news information about that time period so it's hard to tell if that number is high due to gangs or if every one of them was a violent murder. What I'd give for an online database of microfiche from all newspapers. Does this exist, Library of Congress??? Can it exist?
 
madamx said:
in 1977 they had apprehended the doodler and the survivors did not testify against him so he was just let go?

After that iam assuming there were no other killing of gay men in the SF area again??

I wonder if there were any stabbing and killing of gay men in The Doodlers Style elsewhere in CA or other states after he was released and nobody ever attributed to the Doodler? I just don’t think he stopped just like that.
Click to expand...
Were any similar crimes ever found? Thinking the same thing!
 
Thank you!! Waiting back to hear if Stig Berlin's killer was every found (40 y/o, Feb. 19 '74, stabbed in apartment on Hyde St., paper says "possibly a homosexual killer"). As a sidenote--the murder attempt on Ron Faulk in San Jose (April 29, 1976) is almost definitely unrelated, but it's worth a closer look (SJPD is MUCH less cooperative than SFPD, which is saying something since SFPD isn't releasing anything from the case file)
 
Huge article..
The Doodler: He was a serial killer who sketched his gay victims. We set out to untangle the unsolved mystery
''Murderous rage. A string of victims. A tumultuous time in San Francisco. More than 45 years ago, a serial killer called the Doodler sketched gay men in bars before stabbing them. We set out to untangle the unsolved mystery
By Kevin Fagan |March 16, 2021
325x0.jpg

A police sketch of the man who is suspected of killing five gay men in San Francisco in 1974 and ’75. Chronicle archive
325x0.jpg

The gay civilian patrol communicated with walkie-talkies as they tried to prevent crime along Castro Street in the late ’70s. Jerry Telfer / The Chronicle 1977
 
A new, eight-part podcast by the San Francisco Chronicle sheds light on the police investigation and conducts its own inquiry into the long-forgotten slayings in the hopes of ultimately identifying the killer. (The first two episodes are currently available.)

Those victims, says Chronicle reporter Kevin Fagan, who hosts the podcast along with private investigator Michael Taylor, "were really forgotten in history. Everyone deserves attention and sympathy and justice, these five guys were just swept under the waves totally. One of the goals of this project has been to illuminate who they were."

The Doodler's first victim was 50-year-old Gerald Cavanagh. Cavanagh moved to San Francisco from Canada and was employed as a furniture finisher when he was fatally stabbed on Jan. 27, 1974 on Ocean Beach.

His next victim was 27-year-old drag performer Joseph Jae Stevens, who was discovered in Golden Gate Park six months later. He had been stabbed multiple times.

Also killed were 31-year-old Klaus Christmann on July 7, 1974; Vietnam War hero Fredrick Capin, 32, on May 12, 1975; and Harald Gullberg, 66, who was fatally attacked on June 4, 1975.

"The Doodler hunted in gay bars, took them out and killed them actually for being gay," Fagan, a Pulitzer Prize-nominated reporter, tells PEOPLE.

At least three men escaped the Doodler's attacks, and two of them described their attacker as a Black male who was 6 feet tall, between the ages of 19 and 25.

The killer, says Fagan, may still be alive.

"I just have some suspicions about [the killer]," he says.
A Serial Killer Haunted San Francisco's Gay Bars in the 1970s — and New Podcast Seeks to Find Him
 
220127163047-sfpd-sketch-doodler-handout-exlarge-169.jpg


"The Doodler," a suspected serial killer who targeted gay men in San Francisco in the 1970s, is seen in composite sketches from 1975 and one from a few years ago, showing age progression.

San Francisco police have doubled the reward for information leading to the arrest of a suspected serial killer known as "The Doodler" who targeted members of the city's gay community in the 1970s -- including a possible sixth victim publicly identified Thursday.

The reward for information leading to the "identification, apprehension and conviction" of the Doodler now stands at $200,000, the SFPD said -- 48 years to the day the killer's first victim was found.

Police said their investigation has identified a potential sixth victim, Warren Andrews, who was assaulted and discovered unconscious at Lands End park in April 1975. Andrews never regained consciousness, police said, and died about seven weeks later.

The idea that Andrews could be a victim of the Doodler was explored in a San Francisco Chronicle series and podcast last year.

San Francisco police have identified a 6th possible victim in a 48-year-old serial killer case and doubled the reward for information - CNN
 
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