CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #3

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Great questions!

At least 2 brothers that we know of (if the AK who resembles PK, is in fact a brother.)

It seems that AG liked to to try her network of friends for services. Ex. She contacted JH about being the photographer for PK's wedding. So she may very well have at least contemplated MK as her mechanic (if that's what he now does). Although, she would probably want a GM certified mechanic, if her warranty required that.

Two things:
1. Where/how did we learn about an 'AK' who looks like PK? (I admit, my mind has been elsewhere lately because we've just purchased a new house, so......money, furnishings, painter, etc.!! :doh

2. Certainly I agree about AG having a certified GM mechanic to take care of her car. But I meant perhaps she'd only trust a friend to wash it, etc.

 

[nicgumshoe]

Very, very good points/questions here. As a female who is no longer 20 years old who also drives a 'Vette, I know a great deal about my car and GM cars in general! I am offended when a twenty-something leers at my car and/or makes smart-a## comments about me driving it! My mechanic knows me well and treats my car knowledge kindly.

More questions:
- do we even know that items were taken from the car itself? (the Camaro logo is a hot item!)
- since there's an entrance to the garage from the house, how do we really know that the killer didn't get into the house somehow and force Audrey into the garage (hence, the coat)
- did PK even say much about the car itself? If I recall correctly, he answered one of my questions and simply said that LE took the car

?????????????????????

I can't recall reading anything much at all about the car. But I suspect LE must be keeping something quiet about it. I wish they'd just give us a little more to go on.

As an aside, I can tell you as a guy well over 40, I get offended when people ask me about cars....cuz I know nothing about them

 

[nicgumshoe]

Two things:
1. Where/how did we learn about an 'AK' who looks like PK? (I admit, my mind has been elsewhere lately because we've just purchased a new house, so......money, furnishings, painter, etc.!! :doh

2. Certainly I agree about AG having a certified GM mechanic to take care of her car. But I meant perhaps she'd only trust a friend to wash it, etc.

1) Here's a link to a page with AK. Somewhere he thanks PK for some of his research.

http://www.ece.mcmaster.ca/~nicola/mpeg.html

Then there's this post from shadowraiths, with links to 2 pics to compare:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Audrey Gleave, retired teacher, viciously murdered in home, Ancaster Ontario, #3

2) I agree....and I think AG would have possibly consulted him before taking her care in for repairs or maintenance.

 

[libyana]

I am puzzled by the trophy part. How would anyone know what was missing,and if it was a body part surely this is something only a serial killer would do. Something does not make sense.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I am puzzled by the trophy part. How would anyone know what was missing,and if it was a body part surely this is something only a serial killer would do. Something does not make sense.

Maybe this is a serial killer - perhaps this killer is involved with SV, SL and AG.:twocents:

*Attemped killing in the case of SL*

 

[libyana]

Part of me still thinks so, but with all the new info above.....

 

[libyana]

The sexual component is troubling , did AG tell more than one person her greatest fear?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Part of me still thinks so, but with all the new info above.....

Agree completely! The piece of info that has ME the most confused is that LE now say that this was NOT a random act. Rather AG was killed by 'someone known to her'.

Unless, AG's killer was involved in SL and SV just to throw LE off thinking AG's murder was NOT planned but part of a serial killer's rampage. :dunno:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

The sexual component is troubling , did AG tell more than one person her greatest fear?

Well, good question! I wonder if she confided in her coffee group and/or with PK about her fear. She certainly did tell her brother-in-law.

A "sexual violation" is NOT considered a "sexual act". Rather, it's an act of hatred against women. That's a distinction many people don't understand.

 

[Mia]

Hi guys, I'm new to posting on Audrey's thread, but I've been reading all of your posts and following along when I have the time. You guys (and gals) have been doing an amazing job - I'm thoroughly impressed with all of the research and ideas that have been put forth by you on this case.

I am not from the area, and I have never been to Ontario, so my opinion doesn't hold much weight for me, as I can't get a true feel for the environment Audrey was living in, what the people are like, etc. But with that caveat, I don't think the SV and SL attacks/killings are related to Audrey's killing (although I do think SV and SL may have had the same attacker). I think Audrey's killer was someone she knew, someone she felt comfortable enough with to let into her home or at least her garage, and someone she felt safe enough with that she would lock her dogs up while she socialized with this person. I think the dogs being locked in a room of the house indicates that Audrey was not ambushed unexpectedly, i.e., she locked the dogs in their crates or in a room of the house so they would not bother the company. I also agree with the "look young and look close" advise we've heard so many times. So again, someone she felt comfortable enough to let into her garage or home, someone she felt safe enough with to lock her dogs up while socializing with this person, and someone young who lives nearby. All I can think is that PK fits the profile perfectly I really appreciated him coming on here to answer some of your questions - it was very brave and noble of him. But we are here to sleuth out Audrey's killer, and I can't eliminate PK as a suspect because he was nice and polite to you guys and answered most of your questions. Perhaps he came on here to be nice and answer your questions just for that reason - to gain WS'ers favor and hope that all here would eliminate him from their possible suspect group.

He is young.
He lives close by.
Audrey felt comfortable enough with him to let him into her home and garage, and she in fact even gave him the key code to her garage, I believe.
Audrey felt comfortable and safe around PK, and that could be why she locked the dogs up while/IF he was there - for HIS comfort and safety.

Motive? There could be many...
PK could have been fixated/obsessed with her, either sexually or intellectually or mentally.
I know a few people put forth the academic plagiarism theory, where Audrey discovers PK plagiarized parts of the paper he gave her, and threatened to report him to the board.
Perhaps PK had the impression he was included in Audrey's will; heck, maybe he even was included at one time and then for some reason Audrey changed it. I always found it odd that Audrey left her whole estate to the woman neighbor (whose name escapes me at the moment) who is probably well-settled and financially fine, and whom she didn't seem to be as close to as PK, as opposed to leaving it to PK and his new bride, a young couple just getting started, likely with massive student loan debts, who could really need that money to begin a life together. That's why I think maybe PK was included at one time, then something happened (any ideas, anyone?) and Audrey changed it to only include the neighbor lady. But she hadn't told PK this yet, or maybe they had resolved whatever issue instigated him getting thrown off the will, and she was thinking of putting him back on it. Who knows? This is ALL SPECULATION, mind you, although I do wish there was a way we could find out if and what changes were put forth on that will over the last five years or so.

Anyway, you're all doing a great job working toward justice for this special, incredibly smart lady, and I will follow along here to the end, hoping and praying right along with you that the perpetrator will one day be caught.

All of the above is Just My Own Opinion.

 

[libyana]

I have thought of all of the above also and came to the conclusion that she may have told close people of her greatest fear which ended in this perverse act and murder for a reason we do not know yet.

 

[LilyMacBloom]

I'm going back to the conversation I had with girl I know who is good friends with LV.

IF the right opportunity arises (as I feel like I'm starting to be a pest) I will ask her if she knows what became of the engagement ring.

If I recall correctly she indicated to me that the dogs were either (I forget her exact wording) locked or barracked in the kitchen. I DO recall that she did NOT use the words "crated" (but would you use the term crated unless you were a dog/type person anyway? prob not) .

 

[libyana]

Also the trophy may be a ruse to make it look like a serial killer. Whatever it was , it seems to have been obvious.

 

[LilyMacBloom]

:seeya:

Great first post Mia, welcome to the thread.

 

[nicgumshoe]

I am puzzled by the trophy part. How would anyone know what was missing,and if it was a body part surely this is something only a serial killer would do. Something does not make sense.

Maybe this was the first kill of a serial killer. The killer was born right then and there.

 

[SideKick]

Hi Everyone!

I haven't posted on this forum yet, I am from southern ontario area therefore interested in Audrey's case. Such a sad sad state of affairs I must say.

I did a search on FB for both MK and PK. Just to let you know they are on there and there is info on their 'info' page about where they work. Have a peek if you're interested. Both brothers have each other on their page of friends. If you want I can add the links, I am a bit hesitant mind you.

I have to agree that this has to be someone Audrey knew, just way to out there for a random attack to occur without any motive. I'm sure the Hamilton Police Dept. are on top of this. I pray her murderer is found very soon.

SK.

 

[shadowraiths]

Early on, I thought perhaps PK & Audrey had something going on the side. It's certainly not unheard of.

After reading and re-reading what he has shared, I detected no warmth in his various descriptions of their relationship. In fact, I get the impression that their friendship was somewhat one-sided. That is, Audrey liked & trusted him enough to invite him into her home ( link ) and even give him the code to her garage (link). I would not say however that his feelings were reciprocal. He characterizes her as "talking too much" ( link ) and being demanding ( link ). By PK's own words, she was a "high maintenance" friend. Otherwise put. She saw him as a friend. He saw her as a chore.

Moreover, if he is to be believed, it almost sounds as if she took him for granted (i.e., make this spaghetti sauce, with this exact ingredients, bake this cake, etc). Though, her way of showing appreciation may have been letting him into her home, giving him the code to her garage, talking his ear off, etcetera. Yet, those seemed to be primarily done in the context of what he could do for her... help her clean out her house ( link ), being able to access tools if she was away ( link ), be a sounding board...

Now, add to this mix that PK and Audrey's relationship began when he was young, just starting out. Still prolly a tad unsure of himself. Easy to order around... easy to be told what to do... These sort of relationship dynamics simply do not change. Regardless of how old, successful, etc, that PK got Audrey would continue to view him as "her young man" ( link )... a kid who didn't know much. Someone who still needed her mentoring... her tutelage... Yet, 5 years had passed, he had grown, he was married and beginning a family, he was enrolled in the Masters program, and at the beginning of a promising career that commands respect within the field of engineering. And he likely got that respect. That is, from everyone other than Audrey who instructed him to have his wife bake her a cake for Christmas.

So, no. I no longer think he and Audrey had any sort of "thing" going. In fact, I discarded that view some time ago. Yet I was still puzzled about their relationship. The above is my shot at trying to unpuzzle it. Feel free to take what you want, read between the lines, and heave the rest.

 

[nicgumshoe]

Maybe this is a serial killer - perhaps this killer is involved

with SV, SL and AG.:twocents:

*Attemped killing in the case of SL*

Like I say, I'm not really sure about that. But I guess I'm on the fence.

The part that has me too is that LE seems to believe it was someone she knew, and I still think PK fits the bill for many reasons.

I suspect the composite sketch for the person seen near the SL attack, is actually a drawing of the prime suspect, and that it was done with the aid of SL when she started to recover in hospital (it was drawn Dec 30th, but not released until mid Feb). No-one would remember the face of some guy walking down a road December 7, 3+ weeks after the fact. At least not well enough to do detailed sketch. And especially if you weren't looking for someone at the time. It would have to be burned into your mind for some reason....like if you were the victim.

What is interesting to me though is the whole Orangeville/Caledon/Mono (OCM) area. I tend to think of that area as the "bypass-the-highways-to-Barrie hub" for folks from the Hamilton, Burlington, Oakville areas that want to get to Barrie without taking a busy highway. (You can get from Hamilton to Barrie in great time, often faster, if you know the back roads) And you'd normally pass through or near one of those OCM locations along the way.

This does strike me as a great system of quiet roads that a serial killer might choose to travel.

 

[nicgumshoe]

Early on, I thought perhaps PK & Audrey had something going on the side. It's certainly not unheard of.

After reading and re-reading what he has shared, I detected no warmth in his various descriptions of their relationship. In fact, I get the impression that their friendship was somewhat one-sided. That is, Audrey liked & trusted him enough to invite him into her home ( link ) and even give him the code to her garage (link). I would not say however that his feelings were reciprocal. He characterizes her as "talking too much" ( link ) and being demanding ( link ). By PK's own words, she was a "high maintenance" friend. Otherwise put. She saw him as a friend. He saw her as a chore.

Moreover, if he is to be believed, it almost sounds as if she took him for granted (i.e., make this spaghetti sauce, with this exact ingredients, bake this cake, etc). Though, her way of showing appreciation may have been letting him into her home, giving him the code to her garage, talking his ear off, etcetera. Yet, those seemed to be primarily done in the context of what he could do for her... help her clean out her house ( link ), being able to access tools if she was away ( link ), be a sounding board...

Now, add to this mix that PK and Audrey's relationship began when he was young, just starting out. Still prolly a tad unsure of himself. Easy to order around... easy to be told what to do... These sort of relationship dynamics simply do not change. Regardless of how old, successful, etc, that PK got Audrey would continue to view him as "her young man" ( link )... a kid who didn't know much. Someone who still needed her mentoring... her tutelage... Yet, 5 years had passed, he had grown, he was married and beginning a family, he was enrolled in the Masters program, and at the beginning of a promising career that commands respect within the field of engineering. And he likely got that respect. That is, from everyone other than Audrey who instructed him to have his wife bake her a cake for Christmas.

So, no. I no longer think he and Audrey had any sort of "thing" going. In fact, I discarded that view some time ago. Yet I was still puzzled about their relationship. The above is my shot at trying to unpuzzle it. Feel free to take what you want, read between the lines, and heave the rest.

Nicely stated! I agree 100%.

Under the pressure of all his work and changes, I wonder if it was some comment AG made about the cake or PK's wife that might have been the final straw.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

For Mia and for Sidekick:

:welcome4::wagon::welcome5::welcome4::wagon:

Happy to have more people in Audrey's thread! As you can see - we're determined to have her killer caught!!:seeya: