CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #5

[Chorley8]

NSU not sure if you or someone else suggested the young friend may not have had this intimate relationship bragged about - but one needed to be established to explain DNA in the house - which would fit with my (hypothetical) idea that something could be hidden in the house and there was panic to find it and now it had to be explained, the fingerprints etc.

Hence the story about the moving, getting rid of stuff jag he says Audrey went on last few months it would explain stuff being moved around. It would explain stuff missing I realize there is no claim things were missing other than bank documents but how could they possibly know that?

And since when is missing banking information a small thing?

One topic that hasn't been discussed too much and maybe can't be. But the other element we might find some way to explore in detail is the them of Audrey's animals, the pet cemetery, the famous vet (locally) her last wishes which were squelched, the crucial final trip to vet's house for meds, the speculation that the dogs could have been drugged the crating of the dogs the lack of the mention of the dogs in the will. I wonder if there is some way of looking at that as a whole and including the vet in the mix just as a person who was one of the last to see Audrey. Shame he passed away.

On the face of it that visit is an odder visit (with her illness and to his home etc). - than the young friend with the cake or LVS with the soup. (Or not???).

 

[Chorley8]

Does anyone remember LVS actually saying she saw Audrey when she went to give her the soup and I assume that was the last time she saw Audrey (?) correct me if I have anything wrong there. Or did Audrey say just leave it outside the door or whatever? I have always wondered if Audrey or someone else wrote the email about making the coffee klatch come hell or high water however if SVL can corraborate the soup story and having seen Audrey then that timeline is too early.

I get the sense this plot required some time, some access either to Audrey or to the house or both. It just takes a second to kill someone. Your idea of a diary is a good one, letters etc. Precious metals as in gold bars also of course financial info. Or the will. The person could just have thought that there was no copy at the lawyer's. The plan could have been a "new" will maybe they already had one written up but things went a little awry. [modsnip]. It is possible that the original plan was to stage an accident and things got out of hand. Lots of possibilities.

Was AG tortured to give up info? We don't know the exact nature of the wounds but could they have been applied one by one with time and space in between?

I am still not certain absolutely for sure who the last person was who saw Audrey with their own eyes and who the last person was who spoke to her (and I would be interested in voice disguising excuse heavy cold there).

The last emails are of course Amazing Grace. Is the last known email other email the one about hell or high water going to the coffee klatch I mean that we know of.

Does everyone think that coffee klatch email to PK is really written by Audrey? I have doubts.

And am I wrong that the vet was a bit fuzzy about when he saw Audrey last?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoted from Chorley:

Does anyone remember LVS actually saying she saw Audrey when she went to give her the soup and I assume that was the last time she saw Audrey (?) correct me if I have anything wrong there. Or did Audrey say just leave it outside the door or whatever?

To the best of my recollection, all we know is that LV "delivered soup". I don't think we were told if LV saw Audrey, was invited in to reheat the soup, left it on the stoop, whatever.

And........this makes NO SENSE to me!!

:twocents:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoted from Chorley:

I am still not certain absolutely for sure who the last person was who saw Audrey with their own eyes and who the last person was who spoke to her (and I would be interested in voice disguising excuse heavy cold there).

The last emails are of course Amazing Grace. Is the last known email other email the one about hell or high water going to the coffee klatch I mean that we know of.



Yes.......I'm very confused about all of this as well.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

My bottom line + questions:

1. I think Audrey was held in her house for some time.

2. I think that the killer sent the Amazing Grace e-mail + possibly the coffee group e-mail to PK.

3. I firmly believe that Audrey was murdered inside her house and placed in the garage.

4. Audrey knew her killer well.

5. I think LE found/were looking for personal info (diaries, journals) which would give away her killer's identity. I believe the killer found these items first.


QUESTIONS:

1. Why was there no blood spatter on/near the car?

2. When/where did LV hand over the soup to Audrey? OR........was the soup delivery pure fiction = untrue?

3. Why was Audrey's body in the garage?

4. Did LE scour the bathtub/sink drains for blood, hair, DNA?

5. Did Audrey have a set of high-end kitchen knives on her counter?

6. Why were the dogs fussy when PK came to visit/work?

7. Were there any photos in Audrey's house which LE could look at?

8. What happened to the Camaro?

9. Why was cremation and the selling of the house done so quickly?

10. Where's the cake?

11. [modsnip]

14. Where's the soup container?

:twocents:

 

[Sillybilly]

The last emails are of course Amazing Grace. Is the last known email other email the one about hell or high water going to the coffee klatch I mean that we know of.

Does everyone think that coffee klatch email to PK is really written by Audrey? I have doubts.

And am I wrong that the vet was a bit fuzzy about when he saw Audrey last?

According to PK, he received the Amazing Grace email when he checked his computer the morning of Dec 27. Then "later" at 10:46 am she sent the "come hell or high water" email that said Lynne would be coming over in a few minutes:

from:
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/595858--who-is-audrey-gleave

Monday, Dec. 27, 2010, 10:46 a.m.

Subject: report

From: baryon@golden.net

By Sunday the weakness was disappearing but still there. And would you believe that this morning I got a secondary infection; runny nose, runny eyes, sneezing. But at least I don’t feel weak so don’t think I’ve a fever. I’m just annoyed with it. Hope it gets better because I intend to have coffee Wed. come hell or high water. I’ve got cabin fever. Lynne is coming over with soup in a few minutes.

Bary

If Lynne did arrive shortly with the soup and AG's afternoon visit to the vet is somehow documented, then the vet would have been the last person to have seen AG (that we know of, other than the killer of course).

Yes, re the fuzzy recollection of the vet ... i got the impression that his initial recollection was somewhat fuzzy, but the information seem to have gelled somewhere along the line (presumably with more thought given and possibly being ultimately able to relate the visit to other verifiable circumstances).

 

[Sillybilly]

My bottom line + questions:


2. I think that the killer sent the Amazing Grace e-mail + possibly the coffee group e-mail to PK.


QUESTIONS:

2. When/where did LV hand over the soup to Audrey? OR........was the soup delivery pure fiction = untrue? ...

5. Did Audrey have a set of high-end kitchen knives on her counter?

<rsbm>

I agree with most of your comments/questions Stone, just want to comment on the above.

I'm trying to wrap my head around who else might have sent the coffee group email IF it wasn't Audrey herself. [modsnip]. Had he possibly been speaking with AG on the phone,and that is when he found out LV was coming over, thus was able to incorporate that tidbit into a spoofed email from AG's goldennet account ... but for what purpose??? I do find it odd that Audrey's coffee klatch email would discount having a fever because she did not have weakness ... a good scientist should know that weakness and fever are two distinct symptoms, either of which can occur in the absence of the other, so lack of one does not exclude the other.

IF the email was LV as a way to somehow explain away her presence/DNA in the home that day, then it is unlikely that AG would have been out and about to the vets that afternoon (unless the soup was drugged and intended for supper instead of lunch).

IF that email was somehow spoofed, I find it more likely that a younger, more computer savvy person would be responsible.

Personally, I am more suspicious of the second Amazing Grace email to LF, but again ... we don't know when that email was actually devised and physically sent, only that LF read or received it that evening.

WRT knives possibly being available, just a reminder that LE suggested that two weapons were used in the killing.

 

[dotr]

Sorry, but I just have to go back to the poor little puppy who was horribly tortured and killed in Mississauga recently and wonder if the same creep/s murdered AG.
Maybe someone really wanted to hurt and get rid of her dogs but was too cowardly to face the two German Sheppards so got Audrey instead. Was she trying to protect them?
The news article description was not terribly different from Audrey's.
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/12/01/tortured-dog-found-dead-in-mississauga-park

"TORONTO - Injuries to a dog whose body was found in a Mississauga park are so &#8220;disturbing,&#8221; police were reluctant Saturday to reveal too many details.

&#8220;It was tortured &#8230; left for dead,&#8221; Peel Regional Police Const. George Tudos said. &#8220;From what the officers said, it was pretty bad.&#8221;

 

[Chorley8]

Relationship between the women quite possible. Not sure anyone understood me before will repeat but it might be relevant that the witnesses to the W. were a gay female couple.

If it were a conspiracy between some most or all of leading players who do you see as absolutely not involved and who do you see as capable of cooperation?

I think the motive would have to be financial if there was a little conspiracy can't see how anger or the political angle would be likely.

Maybe they all had a wish and there was one easy person who could make their wishes come true. What if the REAL will was going to the SPCA or an animal activist group?

I can imagine righteous and self-righteous indignation mounting. They would think what a waste! Imagine what somebody could do with that money. Come to think of it imagine what We could do with that money.

It is really not fair to have this old lady give her money away when we are so in need. And so they all became little Raskhalnikov's except I don't see any Christian guilt arising so far.

Thinking over Dotr's point still I do think P.K.'s demeanour and words COULD possibly fit with someone terrified of whoever killed Audrey assuming not him.

SB I agree and have noticed/was puzzled about the language and around "weakness" and the a 'secondary infection" and she would know that "infection" might not be the right word. Not if fraudulent who would right that? It doesn't sound like O.K. to me. Why would she have cabin fever after one day you would think that after a tiring day on the 26th she would be glad to stay home?

A few ideas

1. To repeat if there was a lot of money somewhere AND AG was going to give to charity then I think a plot is plausible. And this isn't farfetched it is more or less what I would expect from AG.

2. Is there any chance the bringer of soup tried to screw over the young friend? Sending him the email. Having him discover the body. Maybe thinking by now he would be doing his 25 years. This idea could work with 1. above as well.

3. Not sleuthing anyone here just for context: is the Allan Gleave in the Hamilton directory a police officer in 1954 the future husband of AG I am assuming he can't be. (?). Or his father? Not sure where her husband was from need to go back but if anyone knows.

4. Audrey is just one more victim of a serial duo as I described a few pots ago women who are buried but secretly or not so secretly gay. Not only homicides also fraud. So Audrey is just one more of a series in this scenario.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoted from Chorley:

2. Is there any chance the bringer of soup tried to screw over the young friend? Sending him the email. Having him discover the body. Maybe thinking by now he would be doing his 25 years. This idea could work with 1. above as well.

My only problem with this is that (for me) I cannot see a female committing this horrifically brutal crime! Yes, females do commit murder.......but like this?

You did mean that the 'bringer of soup' was the killer, didn't you?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

*Apologies for so many in a row, but I have time now so.......*

QUESTIONS ABOUT THE BRIDGE CLUB:

1. Was LV a member of this group?

2. Were any of the coffee group members?

3. Where did they meet to play bridge......usually it revolves from one member's house to the next member's house! :waitasec:

4. Was it an all female group or were there males playing as well?

5. How did Audrey get involved in this - because she already knew the people from teaching/golfing/animal rights/etc.?

6. Were the bridge players in Audrey's e-mail contact list?

Any other info would be appreciated.

 

[Chorley8]

Bridge club yes this is something to look at it means going through old Hamilton Spectators looking at reports of games and tournaments.

Maybe someone at the bridge clubs archives this as well I don't know.

I looked up online RP I believe she is a crossover Westdale school, coffee klatch bridge club I assumed it is AG's old team there are men on the present team and the bios of a couple of very interesting ones go back early 2000s. Maybe I can PM a bit more in next couple of days. SB to prove your point yes I only looked at the men on the team!

The games were taken down from online after I began matching up present names and bios. Could be coiincidence I doubt it. But that would mean someone would have to already be sensitized, be looking at who looks them up I personally for example don't waste my time seeing who has "poked" me on FB or whatever.

There is an interesting possible link between "Science" and "Bridge" but don't know if there were on the team back then or even if AG played with RP so it really needs some steady trolling in the newspaper archives.

It is an extremely important thing for someone to do. I will try to go just once soon to Hamilton Library and see what I come up with and report back in some form.

 

[Chorley8]

There is a fall tournament up of RP's I am interested in JD and OM to start there is someone else as well not in this game had a business dealing with mobility devices something like that one of these here pain doctor one of these here scientist. When I say interested I mean in their whole world, social world not that I am IDing them for anything not even close.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

There's a bit about the bridge club in here:

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/594717--audrey-s-story-continues

 

[Sillybilly]

Relationship between the women quite possible. Not sure anyone understood me before will repeat but it might be relevant that the witnesses to the W. were a gay female couple.

<rsbm>

You've lost me on this Chorley ... what is "the W." ?

Did I miss something earlier (i.e. is there a link to some info you are hinting at).

 

[Chorley8]

Will is what I was thinking of.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

There is a fall tournament up of RP's I am interested in JD and OM to start there is someone else as well not in this game had a business dealing with mobility devices something like that one of these here pain doctor one of these here scientist. When I say interested I mean in their whole world, social world not that I am IDing them for anything not even close.

I'm confused (nothing unusual about that! ) - BUT, where do these tournaments take place? In someone's home OR in a public space......an auditorium, etc.

:tyou:

 

[dotr]

O/T This one is for Audrey....
http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/ID/2312470953/

 

[LilyMacBloom]

Not that I know a damn thing about Bridge but this club sure looks super duper active!!!! Brantford doesn't have a bridge club I've looked through all our city stuff. All the ladies I know who play meet at each others houses for a game and treats.

Clearly AG took this game pretty seriously. Following is the link.



http://www.hamiltonbridge.com/

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I looked at every single section of Lily's link..........BUT I'm unable/cannot find the names of the people who played!!:floorlaugh:

Where does one look for the names?

:tyou:

Oh, and all of these people play at another member's home? Sooooooo, did Audrey have bridge people to HER home?

I know absolutley nothing about bridge. To me, it's a structure which helps one travel over water!! :lol: