CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #23

[FromGermany1]

I had thought, DH called Bernard/Barry at his home at 7pm, and neither Honey nor Barry were at home, so couldn't take this call. But now I see, that DH's call went to the office phone. Barry should have been there being able to answer the call. I find it very remarkable, that BS didn't. Was something special happening there at the office already at 7pm?

 

[dotr]

Funny, the bluish glow and the layout of the foyer, reminds me of a swimming pool area. imo.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/barry-honey-sherman-murder-2021-1.5860527

John Lancaster · CBC News · Posted: Jan 05, 2021
''The documents appear to bolster a working police theory that the Shermans were likely killed 36 hours before being discovered.

They suggest the last people to see the Shermans alive were a custom home builder, architect and subcontractor who met with the couple around 5 p.m. ET on Wednesday, Dec. 13, 2017, to go over some details of the new $20 million home they planned to build. ''

Toronto police seized this security camera image of three home builders arriving at Barry Sherman's offices at Apotex in Toronto for a meeting on Dec. 13, 2017. It was the last day the couple was seen alive. (Ontario Court of Justice)
''Honey Sherman left the meeting at about 5:30 p.m. and headed home. Barry Sherman stayed at the office for a few more hours to finish some work.

At 6:21 pm, Honey Sherman used her mobile phone to make a five-minute call to a friend. It appears to be the last time family or friends heard from her.''

 

[FPoulet]

View attachment 486035

Thank you so much for posting this.

Does anyone else find it odd that the 9 PM missed call from DH to Barry on Barry’s cell isn’t mentioned here? This makes me think it was potentially unrelated and or prescheduled, as people have speculated on this thread before. Otherwise, why would it not also be summarized here. Note that in the excerpt DH says he can’t talk about his other work with Barry unless the executors waive solicitor-client privilege. All MOO.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

The case seems cold now and I had some stray thoughts I thought I might add here. Sorry for the length.

- The Shermans were defenceless in their home and there’s nothing to justify what was done to them. I hope there’s some form of justice. I don’t know if any arrests will be made but at least the wrongdoing of a number of people has been made public and they cannot change that.

- Despite their many achievements, I think it’s fair criticism by many who have said the Shermans treated some people terribly. One service provider on KD’s documentary said she told Honey that ‘you can’t talk to people that way’. She said the Sherman children eventually spoke to Honey in the same disrespectful way she spoke to service staff. I hope that cycle will be broken.

I think the takeaway is that you’ll be remembered for how you made people feel and how you treated them, not only the money you made and donated. But it’s good that they showed love in wanting to better the community.

- I think if Barry had lived and reflected on his life he would have had the most fascinating story to tell. He said when he was ten and his father died he took on odd jobs because he didn’t want to be a financial burden on his mother. He also was teased at school but then discovered he did well when tested. He went in to become one of Ontario’s top students, and that was his way out into the world and away from being bullied. It’s an interesting character arc.

- I read part of the lawsuit between the Winter/Barkins v. Barry and the other parties and I agree with part of KW’s views. Barry did leverage his familial ties and implied obligations to his advantage but didn’t follow through. I think Barry and JU should have maybe given them X amount of money (a few million) and apologized. In the end he did give them money and tried to help them but the past should have been dealt with fairly.

- I think the journey of the WM suspect through the neighbourhood in part was a ruse. I think there was another killer present and the WM’s role was in part to protect him or her. I’m only familiar with one similar case (Spohr), and one killer did the same thing as the WM while the accomplice was apparently at the home. The public had no idea another person was involved until the arrests. Both were close to the victims.

-I don’t think the locks were tampered with or the key to the lockbox used. That would have left some things to chance. They 100% knew they’d gain access uneventfully.

-The actions and inaction at points of Friday’s housekeeper still bothers me. She was interviewed by the police at least three times so I think they also may have been left with questions regarding what happened on that Friday. KD hasn’t focused on it and neither have other journalists, so it may be nothing.

-the court transcripts AB has posted differ slightly from what KD has. I pointed out some of the errors to a journalist and they explained that to me. KD has written and spoken about what is in the documents so we’re not missing much.

-Alex K. being surprised to find out that Jonathon has a large gun collection is a key point. Imagine being close to your brother all your life and only finding out that he has over a dozen guns after your parents are murdered. I also think a few revelations about him and possibly AP completely blindsided her.

- KD’s coverage and how he successfully represented the Star in court has been outstanding and fascinating to follow. It was great that he interacted with the readers and his q & a sections at the Star have great information that add to understanding the case and how he investigated it.

-I think there may be more revelations about Jonathon’s ex-boyfriend AL. I found it strange that he gave a statement to the police but didn’t want to fully discuss his arguments with the Shermans or what he was paid by Barry.

All my views only.

 

[FPoulet]

The case seems cold now and I had some stray thoughts I thought I might add here. Sorry for the length.

- The Shermans were defenceless in their home and there’s nothing to justify what was done to them. I hope there’s some form of justice. I don’t know if any arrests will be made but at least the wrongdoing of a number of people has been made public and they cannot change that.

- Despite their many achievements, I think it’s fair criticism by many who have said the Shermans treated some people terribly. One service provider on KD’s documentary said she told Honey that ‘you can’t talk to people that way’. She said the Sherman children eventually spoke to Honey in the same disrespectful way she spoke to service staff. I hope that cycle will be broken.

I think the takeaway is that you’ll be remembered for how you made people feel and how you treated them, not only the money you made and donated. But it’s good that they showed love in wanting to better the community.

- I think if Barry had lived and reflected on his life he would have had the most fascinating story to tell. He said when he was ten and his father died he took on odd jobs because he didn’t want to be a financial burden on his mother. He also was teased at school but then discovered he did well when tested. He went in to become one of Ontario’s top students, and that was his way out into the world and away from being bullied. It’s an interesting character arc.

- I read part of the lawsuit between the Winter/Barkins v. Barry and the other parties and I agree with part of KW’s views. Barry did leverage his familial ties and implied obligations to his advantage but didn’t follow through. I think Barry and JU should have maybe given them X amount of money (a few million) and apologized. In the end he did give them money and tried to help them but the past should have been dealt with fairly.

- I think the journey of the WM suspect through the neighbourhood in part was a ruse. I think there was another killer present and the WM’s role was in part to protect him or her. I’m only familiar with one similar case (Spohr), and one killer did the same thing as the WM while the accomplice was apparently at the home. The public had no idea another person was involved until the arrests. Both were close to the victims.

-I don’t think the locks were tampered with or the key to the lockbox used. That would have left some things to chance. They 100% knew they’d gain access uneventfully.

-The actions and inaction at points of Friday’s housekeeper still bothers me. She was interviewed by the police at least three times so I think they also may have been left with questions regarding what happened on that Friday. KD hasn’t focused on it and neither have other journalists, so it may be nothing.

-the court transcripts AB has posted differ slightly from what KD has. I pointed out some of the errors to a journalist and they explained that to me. KD has written and spoken about what is in the documents so we’re not missing much.

-Alex K. being surprised to find out that Jonathon has a large gun collection is a key point. Imagine being close to your brother all your life and only finding out that he has over a dozen guns after your parents are murdered. I also think a few revelations about him and possibly AP completely blindsided her.

- KD’s coverage and how he successfully represented the Star in court has been outstanding and fascinating to follow. It was great that he interacted with the readers and his q & a sections at the Star have great information that add to understanding the case and how he investigated it.

-I think there may be more revelations about Jonathon’s ex-boyfriend AL. I found it strange that he gave a statement to the police but didn’t want to fully discuss his arguments with the Shermans or what he was paid by Barry.

All my views only.

@Lexiintoronto This is a great summary of many important points. I agree with virtually everything you’ve written, including about the WM and JS’s ex (although I sincerely hope the case isn’t cold). Thank you for putting together such a thoughtful post.

Could you please shed a bit more light on a couple of points:

- can you tell us more about what you mean by the differences in the transcripts posted by AB vs KD?

- I don’t think I knew (or I’d forgotten) that Alex didn’t know about JS’s gun collection. Where is that information found?

- can you shed more light on your comment that Alex was blindsided about some things re JS and possibly AP?

Thanks again!!

 

[Lexiintoronto]

@Lexiintoronto This is a great summary of many important points. I agree with virtually everything you’ve written, including about the WM and JS’s ex (although I sincerely hope the case isn’t cold). Thank you for putting together such a thoughtful post.

Could you please shed a bit more light on a couple of points:

- can you tell us more about what you mean by the differences in the transcripts posted by AB vs KD?

- I don’t think I knew (or I’d forgotten) that Alex didn’t know about JS’s gun collection. Where is that information found?

- can you shed more light on your comment that Alex was blindsided about some things re JS and possibly AP?

Thanks again!!

- I posted a few things that looked like errors in the documents like the massage therapist’s statement being completely redacted but her name appeared on the directory so we could tell who it was. It turns out KD’s version of the same document is different. (IMO because I can’t link the source about what I was told, but if the mods want it I can back it up). I’m not aware of what KD’s documents contain, only that they differ. Maybe a newer version of the same documents have been filed, and AB’s are older.

I think in that one example Detective Yim redacted both the massage therapist’s name and her statement, but KD argued in court that he has disclosed her name and that she was at the home on that last Wednesday, so why keep it redacted? My speculation is that KD knows what is under the redacted statement, based on what he has written.


-“I tell Jonathan that my information, and I have to protect my sources here, is that his sister Alexandra is scared of him. He confirms this. I ask why? What I've heard from my sister Lauren is that apparently Alex is afraid because I own guns. And she thinks that because of that I'm violent and that I carry a gun around with me everywhere. And then if she ever disagrees with me, I'm going to pull out my gun and shoot her in front of everybody.” Suspicion | The Billionaire Murders: The hunt for the killers of Honey and Barry Sherman - S2 The Billionaire Murders | E7 Pointing Fingers Transcript and Discussion

It’s just my impression, but him having guns seemed to be a new issue for Alex after the murders. They were very close before the murders but then suddenly she was frightened of him in part because of him having guns. He didn’t tell KD ‘hey, she knows me and knew about the guns and never made it an issue’. KD asked Jonathon to confirm if he owned firearms. So it seemed like hidden information, imo. And she thinks he’s violent, where did that come from? He said he shoots clay pigeons with the guns.

They both had a cottage in the same lake at that point. A place you’d expect target shooting. Wouldn’t she have been exposed to his gun collection and use of the weapons there? Or at his home?

-something happened in December, 2018 that caused Alex to call Greenspan and she said Jonathon and AP were ‘money-hungry monsters’, among other things. She seemed surprised by newfound knowledge, imo. She then went to the police with her concerns and started to fight to get the private investigation team dismantled.

ETA: We don’t know when Jonathon purchased the guns, when Alex found out about them or more information than he shared with KD. It’s just my speculation

 

[RHR]

Funny, the bluish glow and the layout of the foyer, reminds me of a swimming pool area. imo.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/barry-honey-sherman-murder-2021-1.5860527

John Lancaster · CBC News · Posted: Jan 05, 2021
''The documents appear to bolster a working police theory that the Shermans were likely killed 36 hours before being discovered.

They suggest the last people to see the Shermans alive were a custom home builder, architect and subcontractor who met with the couple around 5 p.m. ET on Wednesday, Dec. 13, 2017, to go over some details of the new $20 million home they planned to build. ''
View attachment 486057
Toronto police seized this security camera image of three home builders arriving at Barry Sherman's offices at Apotex in Toronto for a meeting on Dec. 13, 2017. It was the last day the couple was seen alive. (Ontario Court of Justice)
''Honey Sherman left the meeting at about 5:30 p.m. and headed home. Barry Sherman stayed at the office for a few more hours to finish some work.

At 6:21 pm, Honey Sherman used her mobile phone to make a five-minute call to a friend. It appears to be the last time family or friends heard from her.''

Something i have always had a problem with regarding the meeting at Apotex.
It has always been stated that Honey left at around 5.30pm. Honey went to Bayview village and although it was rush hour i can't imagine it took more than 45 minutes. It would usually be about a 25 minute drive. She bought some gifts for her grandchildren and went to the bank machine. I know BV Village well and the choices to buy kids toys are very few. KD said that she arrived home around 8pm, what took H so long ? LE has not placed her in any other stores in BVV. BVV is about a 10 minute drive to OCR. I can't imagine what she did for almost two hours in BVV. Is it possible she was back home earlier than 8pm and was the walking man seen on camera before 8pm ?

 

[dotr]

Surprised that someone could withdraw that much cash at once from an ATM, wondering if anybody watched her do this.
Years ago at an ATM, there was an old homeless-looking man sleeping on the floor in the entrance, i figured since he was passed out it was safe to go ahead, punch in my code. Back turned, my hinky meter went off and quickly turning around, i see the 'poor soul' was actually fully alert & sharp-eyed - watching...
Feb 2023
By Kevin Donovan Chief Investigative Reporter

Large amount of cash found in Honey and Barry Sherman’s wallets ruled out a break-in

When the discovery of money and portable valuables made a robbery seem unlikely, police formed a theory that the Shermans died in a murder-suicide.

www.thestar.com

'Barry Sherman had $372 in his wallet when he died. Honey Sherman’s wallet was stuffed with $7,500, possibly from a visit to an ATM shortly before she was killed.
Sources say cash discovered at the crime scene explains why a homicide detective went to great lengths to calm fears in the neighbourhood shortly after the bodies were found. It was unlikely their deaths were a break-in gone wrong.''

''Police documents unsealed through the Star’s ongoing court action reveal that police seized video from the ATM camera at CIBC at Bayview Village. Honey was at Bayview Village before coming home that Wednesday night, having gone there to shop for Hanukkah presents for grandchildren''

 

[Lexiintoronto]

FWIW—(I forgot to add this) I mentioned this before, but I think there’s something about what was discussed or emailed during Honey’s massage on Wednesday that’s important. Both DH and the massage therapist’s statements were used in one of the last warrants. The assistant’s statements have regularly appeared in the documents.

Honey was having a very long massage, meanwhile her assistant was also there going over her work. We know that Honey was emailing lawyer DH’s law firm (presumably him) around that time.

DH and Honey’s communication would fall under privilege. The massage therapist and the assistant both probably had NDAs, but that doesn’t stop them from becoming confidential informants or breaking the NDAs justifiably, imo.

(Add onto that Wednesday’s housekeeper and real estate agent that were also at the home around that time and may have overheard something.)

So you have:
-Honey having a three-hour massage
-Honey discussing things with her assistant during that time
-the massage therapist in the position to overhear
-communication between DH’s office (likely DH) seems to have happened during those hours (KD said Honey was emailing DH’s office that afternoon).
-one agent and Wednesday’s housekeeper were at the home
-(work was being done in the basement)
-one X factor is what was being discussed which was likely pivotal as the assistant was going over Honey’s schedule. She sent Mary Honey’s password to her online schedule that afternoon.
-another X factor is what Honey did after her assistant left at 2:40 and who was in the home until she left for Apotex at around 4:30

Just another trivia point that may be important is that there was a Wednesday housekeeper and a Friday one.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

dbm

 

[WINDSOR]

“I tell Jonathan that my information, and I have to protect my sources here, is that his sister Alexandra is scared of him. He confirms this. I ask why? What I've heard from my sister Lauren is that apparently Alex is afraid because I own guns. And she thinks that because of that I'm violent and that I carry a gun around with me everywhere. And then if she ever disagrees with me, I'm going to pull out my gun and shoot her in front of everybody.”

Jonathon, carries a gun around everywhere? That is quite hard to do legally in Ontario. When did he start doing that?

Shooting clay pigeons, is a recognized sport, It is done with shotguns, which are long and bulky. There were events in the 2020 Olympics. Handguns are personal weapons, and can be carried on one's body.

She bought some gifts for her grandchildren and went to the bank machine.

Honey died with $7500.00 in her purse, why would she need to go to a bank machine, unless she had a certain amount of money allocated for something and needed money for herself. 'I need $7000.00 for the tradesman, and I'll get $500.00 for myself. I do not think she got a large amount of cash from the machine as I believe most have a limit, say $500 or $1,000 dollar.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

“I tell Jonathan that my information, and I have to protect my sources here, is that his sister Alexandra is scared of him. He confirms this. I ask why? What I've heard from my sister Lauren is that apparently Alex is afraid because I own guns. And she thinks that because of that I'm violent and that I carry a gun around with me everywhere. And then if she ever disagrees with me, I'm going to pull out my gun and shoot her in front of everybody.”

Jonathon, carries a gun around everywhere? That is quite hard to do legally in Ontario. When did he start doing that?

Shooting clay pigeons, is a recognized sport, It is done with shotguns, which are long and bulky. There were events in the 2020 Olympics. Handguns are personal weapons, and can be carried on one's body.

She bought some gifts for her grandchildren and went to the bank machine.

Honey died with $7500.00 in her purse, why would she need to go to a bank machine, unless she had a certain amount of money allocated for something and needed money for herself. 'I need $7000.00 for the tradesman, and I'll get $500.00 for myself. I do not think she got a large amount of cash from the machine as I believe most have a limit, say $500 or $1,000 dollar.

She may have also transferred funds or checked a balance. So far we only know she was caught on cctv at the atm.

I thought maybe she withdrew US funds but those machines in that mall don’t offer that.

 

[hexicon]

Re massage therapist:
The presence of the massage therapist is interesting because it could affect attorney-client privilege (ACP). If the massage therapist was present while Honey was discussing legal advice with her assistant or having a conversation with her lawyer (speakerphone?), then that could be considered a waiver of ACP such that the masseuse could discuss the conversation even if the lawyer couldn't, so that the ACP material could be used to support a warrant. Laws vary so much among jurisdictions that I'm posing the issue, not offering conclusions.

Re guns:
It seems odd to me that the gun ownership in itself would put sister Alex over the edge re her brother. Admittedly, I come from a gun-owning middle-class family in the U.S., not a wealthy family in Ontario. But AFAIK the Jonathan's guns were longarms used for shooting sports. A lot of wealthy people shoot sporting clays, though my sense is that this would be done at gun clubs, not forest cottages.

First, owning longarms for shooting sports doesn't automatically translate into concealed carry of a handgun. Second, to the extent that gun ownership in itself could be perceived as a threat, I would probably be more afraid of someone who owned a deer rifle and was used to stalking and killing living things.

I shouldn't assume that Alex would look at things the same way I would, but I feel like the guns alone aren't the full reason for her fears.

 

[FPoulet]

Re massage therapist:
The presence of the massage therapist is interesting because it could affect attorney-client privilege (ACP). If the massage therapist was present while Honey was discussing legal advice with her assistant or having a conversation with her lawyer (speakerphone?), then that could be considered a waiver of ACP such that the masseuse could discuss the conversation even if the lawyer couldn't, so that the ACP material could be used to support a warrant. Laws vary so much among jurisdictions that I'm posing the issue, not offering conclusions.

I agree — this definitely raises the possibility of a waiver of solicitor-client privilege in my view.

 

[FPoulet]

She may have also transferred funds or checked a balance. So far we only know she was caught on cctv at the atm.

I thought maybe she withdrew US funds but those machines in that mall don’t offer that.

I think she likely withdrew cash for Hanukkah gifts or holiday tips for staff.

It is possible she has set her withdrawal limit at a higher amount that an average person. She would have private banking privileges and may well be able to withdraw a lot.

Also, she could have been adding to that over a day or two of withdrawals.

 

[ldlager]

Something i have always had a problem with regarding the meeting at Apotex.
It has always been stated that Honey left at around 5.30pm. Honey went to Bayview village and although it was rush hour i can't imagine it took more than 45 minutes. It would usually be about a 25 minute drive. She bought some gifts for her grandchildren and went to the bank machine. I know BV Village well and the choices to buy kids toys are very few. KD said that she arrived home around 8pm, what took H so long ? LE has not placed her in any other stores in BVV. BVV is about a 10 minute drive to OCR. I can't imagine what she did for almost two hours in BVV. Is it possible she was back home earlier than 8pm and was the walking man seen on camera before 8pm ?

Maybe she was also shopping for herself. Bayview Village has a number of stores that I think would have interested her.

 

[dotr]

Noting..
TheGlobeAndMail.com Oct. 3, 2017 Jeff Gray rbbm

Corp Comm Connects

''Surviving what he has called a smear campaign, developer Sam Mizrahi has secured hundreds of millions of dollars in financing to build Canada's tallest condo tower at Toronto's coveted intersection of Yonge and Bloor Streets.''

''Plus, Mr. Mizrahi, who has partnered with the family firm behind Coco Paving from the beginning, has another set of new lenders: A second mortgage, worth $61.5-million with a 13-per-cent annual interest rate, from a newly registered company called One Bloor Lender GP Inc. The company is a partnership between Toronto's established Westdale Construction Co. Ltd., which was an investor in the One Bloor East tower across the road, and a company controlled by Toronto billionaire Barry Sherman, founder of generic-drug giant Apotex Inc.''

Feb 26 2024

Mizrahi pushed out of The One skyscraper development — inside details of what he told employees

“For me, it’s just mind boggling,” Mizrahi Developments founder Sam Mizrahi said in recording obtained by the Star. “I don’t see how somebody else is going to do it better than we are.”

www.thestar.com

''The controversial developer behind a long-delayed project billed as the tallest residential tower in Canada, an 85-storey behemoth on the corner of Yonge and Bloor streets in Toronto, is being replaced, according to an audio recording of an internal meeting obtained by the Star.
In the meeting on Monday, Mizrahi Developments founder and president Sam Mizrahi told employees his company would no longer oversee construction of The One, a star-crossed condo tower on the southwest corner of one Toronto’s most iconic intersections.
“For me, it's just mind boggling,” Mizrahi said in the recording. “Because I don't see how somebody else is going to do it better than we are.”

The controversial developer behind a long-delayed project billed as the tallest residential tower in Canada, an 85-storey behemoth on the corner of Yonge and Bloor streets in Toronto, is being replaced, according to an audio recording of an internal meeting obtained by the Star.
Steve Russell/Toronto Star

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Maybe she was also shopping for herself. Bayview Village has a number of stores that I think would have interested her.

The only fact I believe we have here is that her last communication on her cell phone that we know of was with a friend while she drove in her car that was 6:20 approx. I am unsure if she had already shopped when she spoke to her friend? She could have sat in her car in the parking lot talking on her cell, again I am not sure it was ever reported how long this conversation was, only that Honey seemed her normal self during that call.

 

[FPoulet]

Thought… if we are remembering right that Honey left Apotex at 5:30pm, and it’s about 40 mins to Bayview Village Shopping Centre, and then less than 5 mins to Old Colony, and Honey arrived home at approximately 8pm, then she had approximately 1.75 hours at Bayview (or where?). I wonder if she might have grabbed a bite with anyone?

Also, do you think that TPS is analyzing the cell phone movement data on her phone like they did in the Murdaugh case in S Carolina? ie, where exactly was her phone and when; did it hit the floor of the powder room and when; did it skid; did it ever move after that (before the housekeeper moved it) and if so when; etc. Or is that not something TPS does or did do in this case? Even step counts can show activity/movement between different hour-long windows of time.

All MOO, speculation.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Just to point out a small detail. Some initial reports had her leaving Apotex at 5:30 but later they said she and the builders left at around 6:00.

So maybe:

-6:00 left Apotex
-6:21 she briefly called her friend (driving most likely)
-BV mall is about 25 minutes away if the roads are clear
-KD saw receipts or a statement that shows she made purchases so I’m guessing they know what time she made them
-she was caught on cctv at Sephora and an atm (times unknown)
-BV mall to their home was about 5 minutes
-8:20 is the time KD believes she arrived home

(Barry’s last email was sent from Apotex at 8:23 and KD said he left shortly afterwards, a 25 minute drive home if roads are clear).

KD believes the WM was at the home at around 8:45, so he may have been at 59 Bannatyne at around 8:20.

That’s off the top of my head, but I did a post a while back compiling KD’s timeline and 8:20 seems significant if KD is right.

imo—I’d had to dig up my old post with the supporting quotes and links.