CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #23

[HFTSM]

Your quote: “As KD said, he was attacked as he entered the house and could have very easily been killed right then, but he wasn't because his hands were bound while he was still alive per the 2nd autopsy.”

Can you please provide a link for that information? I’m not aware of any report or part of the podcast that states that we know when the wrist ligatures were applied, only that they had marks on their wrists.


The provincial pathologist saw marks on the Shermans’ wrists and sent samples to be examined. He showed photos from the first autopsies to the pathologist who did the second autopsies. We don’t know more than that, afaik. We don’t know when the marks were made—although it seems likely they were made prior to death— and we don’t know the exact times of their deaths.

—not to discount your theory. I also believe they were retrained immediately, but I’m just speculating. I know it seems like a small point but it may have been done as a part of staging.

The marks on the wrist can only be made when someone is alive. Mentioned in this article by KD:

Five years later, inside the Barry and Honey Sherman murders

After a billionaire couple are found hanged by the railing of their indoor pool, a look back at the calm before the storm, the immediate finger pointing that left a family divided and the police still struggling to find a killer

www.thestar.com

"That police theory changed to “targeted” double homicide five weeks later when the Star published details of the private autopsy arranged by the Sherman family. Markings on the Shermans’ wrists revealed they’d been bound while alive. Plus, there were thin ligature marks around their necks, under the belts that were holding them in a seated position beside their swimming pool. The belts were used to stage, not kill them."

 

[dotr]

fwiw.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

The marks on the wrist can only be made when someone is alive. Mentioned in this article by KD:

Five years later, inside the Barry and Honey Sherman murders

After a billionaire couple are found hanged by the railing of their indoor pool, a look back at the calm before the storm, the immediate finger pointing that left a family divided and the police still struggling to find a killer

www.thestar.com

"That police theory changed to “targeted” double homicide five weeks later when the Star published details of the private autopsy arranged by the Sherman family. Markings on the Shermans’ wrists revealed they’d been bound while alive. Plus, there were thin ligature marks around their necks, under the belts that were holding them in a seated position beside their swimming pool. The belts were used to stage, not kill them."

Injuries can be made to deceased bodies and be apparent, but the experts would likely have been able to tell at what stage around the time of death they may have happened.

I appreciate you finding the quote where KD confirmed that the wrist restraints were definitely put on while alive. It’s an important detail, imo. I wonder how much they could tell about those injuries alone that would add to the timeline.

 

[hexicon]

Regarding the murderer's decision to stage the fake m/s in the pool room:

My modest, middle-class house bears no comparison to the Shermans', but when I look around my place, I don't see any spot where one could easily perpetrate or stage a m/s by hanging. I know people can hang themselves from lots of things--hooks, light fixtures, doorknobs--but if you are trying to persuade police of a m/s on at least a short-term basis, it seems like you'd go for something more obvious and superficially credible. Both my upstairs and basement stair rails overlook narrow hallways, and I think the iron rails could pull their bolts (recognizing the Shermans were seated and it wouldn't be the full weight of two people). It's possible, but it would be difficult.

Are there other locations in the Sherman house that would have made equal logistical sense? For example, was there a stair rail on the main floor with a lot of space underneath? Or is it possible that the pool rail seemed like the sturdiest and most credible place?

 

[xjd11]

fwiw.

but how about when your hands are behind your back, like the Shermans probably were?

 

[dotr]

but how about when your hands are behind your back, like the Shermans probably were?

'Learn How to Escape from Zip Ties by Breaking them while behind your back.'

 

[ldlager]

Regarding the murderer's decision to stage the fake m/s in the pool room:

My modest, middle-class house bears no comparison to the Shermans', but when I look around my place, I don't see any spot where one could easily perpetrate or stage a m/s by hanging. I know people can hang themselves from lots of things--hooks, light fixtures, doorknobs--but if you are trying to persuade police of a m/s on at least a short-term basis, it seems like you'd go for something more obvious and superficially credible. Both my upstairs and basement stair rails overlook narrow hallways, and I think the iron rails could pull their bolts (recognizing the Shermans were seated and it wouldn't be the full weight of two people). It's possible, but it would be difficult.

Are there other locations in the Sherman house that would have made equal logistical sense? For example, was there a stair rail on the main floor with a lot of space underneath? Or is it possible that the pool rail seemed like the sturdiest and most credible place?

A number of years ago I had a friend that hung himself from his upper floor railing. He wrapped the rope not around the handrail on top but around the bottom of a couple of the wood spindles near the floor level. They unfortunately held. I’m sure a similar type of layout existed in the Sherman house.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Thinking reason to stage and why to stage / pose

Came across this site, I did not enter a email address but scroll down and you get a bit of the content.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/8158272_The_Rarity_of_Unusal_Dispositions_of_Victim_Bodies_Staging_and_Posing#:~:text=Keppel%20and%20Weis%20(2004)%20suggest,debauched%20pleasure%20to%20the%20offender.

And this

Practiclehomicide.com

CONCLUSION

It is not unreasonable to assume that someone might attempt to "Stage a Crime Scene" based on something they saw on one of the forensic shows. Furthermore, it is logical to presume that an offender who has viewed these various forensic programs will take precautions not to leave any trace evidence on the body or at the scene, which may identify him or link him to the crime. In some instances this is exactly what occurred.


And another

Crime Scene Staging: Trying to Get Away with Murder | Uncovered

When a killer is trying to throw detectives off their scent, many will attempt to confuse police by staging the crime scene.

uncovered.com

 

[dotr]

Re reading about psychopaths and wondering now if the person(s) who planned and/or killed the Shermans, would be considered one or not if the motive was strictly financial? speculation, imo.
March 8 2024

Scientists identify five key characteristics in famous PSYCHOPATHS

Scientists from Longwood University in Virginia and the University of Kentucky have identified five key characteristics in the famous psychopaths, Ted Bundy, Clyde Barrow and Bernie Madoff.

www.dailymail.co.uk

''DECODING THE PSYCHOPATH'S STARE: AI CAN DETECT SIGNS OF PSYCHOPATHY BASED ON YOUR HEAD MOVEMENTS, STUDY FINDS​

''Scientists have developed an artificial intelligence (AI) system that can detect signs of psychopathy based on head movements.
Using head tracking algorithms, experts in New Mexico found evidence that male prison inmates with higher levels of psychopathy kept their head more stationary during police interviews.
The algorithms measured the head movements of 507 inmates during recorded conversations, varying in length from one to two hours.
To estimate the head pose, all the frames in the videos were extracted as individual images, allowing the algorithm to work with the face in each frame of the video stream.
To determine levels of psychopathy, the team used a common assessment called the Hare Psychopathy Checklist - Revised (PCL-R), originally developed in the 1970s by Canadian psychologist Robert D. Hare.
Using a 20-item checklist, PCL-R scores a person from one to 40. Anyone who scores 25 or over in the UK is deemed a psychopath.
The PCL-R is reliable across male offenders, male forensic psychiatric patients and female offenders, the team claim.
'As predicted, dwell times indicate that those with higher levels of psychopathic traits are characterised by more stationary head positions, focused directly towards the camera/interviewer, than were individuals low in psychopathic traits,' the experts say in their paper.
Read more: AI can detect psychopathy based on head movements, study says''

 

[FromGermany1]

Re reading about psychopaths and wondering now if the person(s) who planned and/or killed the Shermans, would be considered one or not if the motive was strictly financial? speculation, imo.
March 8 2024

Scientists identify five key characteristics in famous PSYCHOPATHS

Scientists from Longwood University in Virginia and the University of Kentucky have identified five key characteristics in the famous psychopaths, Ted Bundy, Clyde Barrow and Bernie Madoff.

www.dailymail.co.uk

''DECODING THE PSYCHOPATH'S STARE: AI CAN DETECT SIGNS OF PSYCHOPATHY BASED ON YOUR HEAD MOVEMENTS, STUDY FINDS​

''Scientists have developed an artificial intelligence (AI) system that can detect signs of psychopathy based on head movements.
Using head tracking algorithms, experts in New Mexico found evidence that male prison inmates with higher levels of psychopathy kept their head more stationary during police interviews.
The algorithms measured the head movements of 507 inmates during recorded conversations, varying in length from one to two hours.
To estimate the head pose, all the frames in the videos were extracted as individual images, allowing the algorithm to work with the face in each frame of the video stream.
To determine levels of psychopathy, the team used a common assessment called the Hare Psychopathy Checklist - Revised (PCL-R), originally developed in the 1970s by Canadian psychologist Robert D. Hare.
Using a 20-item checklist, PCL-R scores a person from one to 40. Anyone who scores 25 or over in the UK is deemed a psychopath.
The PCL-R is reliable across male offenders, male forensic psychiatric patients and female offenders, the team claim.
'As predicted, dwell times indicate that those with higher levels of psychopathic traits are characterised by more stationary head positions, focused directly towards the camera/interviewer, than were individuals low in psychopathic traits,' the experts say in their paper.
Read more: AI can detect psychopathy based on head movements, study says''

I believe, I would be identified as a psychopath then.

 

[Danaya]

Any possibility this was a thrill kill? I don't think it was. I think it was targeted.

 

[dotr]

Just noting, fwiw imo, speculation.
Prior to the S murders, there was a number of B&E's in the area and neighbours spoke about, but did not necessarily add more security/cctv etc. (as previously posted) unlike the response to crime in the also high-end Rosedale part of the city.

18 min (8.6 km) via Bayview Ave

Hampton Park Crescent and True Davidson Drive to 50 old colony - Google Search

April 1 2024 rbbm

'It was so loud': Rosedale neighbourhood reeling after daylight shooting sends one person to hospital

One person was sent to hospital with serious injuries in the Monday morning as police investigate the area near Hampton Park Crescent and True Davidson Drive.

www.thestar.com

''Judy Stinson was on a Zoom call on the second floor of her midtown Toronto home Monday morning when the sound of gunshots rang out.
"It was so loud," said Stinson, who lives on True Davidson Drive near Bayview Avenue and Pottery Road.''

''The issue has prompted residents to create a neighbourhood watch group and boost safety measures, with many installing security window films and surveillance cameras.
"Everyone has cameras now. So this is not the place you want to commit a crime," said Stinson.
According to the local residents' association, there have been 10 break-ins in the last eight months. Nearly 35 per cent of the households have signed contracts with a private security company and another 22 per cent have promised to do so.''

 

[dotr]

Drug company Apotex signs deal to buy Montreal-based Searchlight Pharma

TORONTO — Montreal-based healthcare company Searchlight Pharma is being purchased by drug company Apotex. The financial terms of the deal that’s expected to close in the second quarter of this year were not immediately available. Apotex chief executive Allan Oberman says Searchlight has a proven...

toronto.citynews.ca

April 2, 2024
'TORONTO — Montreal-based healthcare company Searchlight Pharma is being purchased by drug company Apotex.'
'Apotex is owned by SK Capital Partners, which purchased the Toronto company in 2022. It was founded by Barry Sherman, who along with his wife Honey Sherman was killed in their Toronto mansion in 2017.

Apotex buys specialty pharma Searchlight in $500-million-plus move to diversify from generic drugs

Searchlight generates about $150-million in annual revenue with 90 per cent of its sales in Canada

www.theglobeandmail.com

''Apotex buys specialty pharma Searchlight in $500-million-plus move to diversify from generic drugs''​

 

[Lexiintoronto]

FWIW— I’m not sure how current this information still is, but I found this detail in this last sentence I had overlooked in KD’s book (page 296 in my ebook):


The masseuse and Honey’s assistant left around 2:40. So it seems the workers and the agent were in the home when Honey likely left the home around 4:30. There was a PIN code entry in the security system at 4:34. That may have been Honey setting the side door entrance or most zones in the home possibly except for the basement zone if they were there, imo.

One thing the agent said about the house tour on Friday was she was surprised to find the one basement door that led out to the patio unlocked. She also said the front basement window was open about 6”(the workers had opened it to air out paint fumes).

If the WM arrived on Wednesday evening around 8:00-ish and saw that window open, they may have known that basement security zone wasn’t armed, imo.

I’m not suggesting anything about the workers (and no one has), I’m just speculating.

 

[FromGermany1]

The OCR home was still lived in by HS and BS. Didn't the agent have to make an announcing call previous to a next showing?

 

[dotr]

This has intriguing potential to help gather DNA, wondering if the Sherman home had a/c units, especially in the basement and H's bedroom., imo.

Cold case: DNA in airconditioners to place suspects at the scene of a crime

Even if a criminal wears gloves, their cast-off DNA may still be present in a room's air after they leave. A new study suggests that if such telltale material gets sucked up by an air conditioner, it could let forensic investigators know if a suspect has or has not been in a certain room.

newatlas.com

By Ben Coxworth
April 03, 2024 rbbm.

The humble AC unit may help investigators determine if a suspect has been present at the scene
Depositphotos
''Even if a criminal wears gloves, their cast-off DNA may still be present in a room's air after they leave. A new study suggests that if such telltale material gets sucked up by an air conditioner, it could let forensic investigators know if a suspect has or has not been in a certain room.''
''The substance can even stay airborne for a while, in the form of tiny exhaled saliva droplets or minuscule flakes of skin. What's more, before that eDNA has a chance to settle and get wiped up by a careful alcohol-cloth-wielding culprit, it may get sucked up by a room's air conditioning system.

With this fact in mind, scientists from Australia's Flinders University set out to see if human eDNA could be obtained from a room's air conditioner. It's important to note that air conditioners work by recirculating the air in a room, not by drawing air in from outside.''

"It is very unlikely that an average offender, even with forensic awareness, could totally prevent their DNA from being released into the environment," says the lead scientist, Dr. Mariya Goray.''

 

[Lexiintoronto]

The OCR home was still lived in by HS and BS. Didn't the agent have to make an announcing call previous to a next showing?

She did. But when they couldn’t reach Honey on Thursday they made the decision to go ahead with the showing on Friday morning anyway.

This has intriguing potential to help gather DNA, wondering if the Sherman home had a/c units, especially in the basement and H's bedroom., imo.

Cold case: DNA in airconditioners to place suspects at the scene of a crime

Even if a criminal wears gloves, their cast-off DNA may still be present in a room's air after they leave. A new study suggests that if such telltale material gets sucked up by an air conditioner, it could let forensic investigators know if a suspect has or has not been in a certain room.

newatlas.com

By Ben Coxworth
April 03, 2024 rbbm.
View attachment 494926
The humble AC unit may help investigators determine if a suspect has been present at the scene
Depositphotos
''Even if a criminal wears gloves, their cast-off DNA may still be present in a room's air after they leave. A new study suggests that if such telltale material gets sucked up by an air conditioner, it could let forensic investigators know if a suspect has or has not been in a certain room.''
''The substance can even stay airborne for a while, in the form of tiny exhaled saliva droplets or minuscule flakes of skin. What's more, before that eDNA has a chance to settle and get wiped up by a careful alcohol-cloth-wielding culprit, it may get sucked up by a room's air conditioning system.

With this fact in mind, scientists from Australia's Flinders University set out to see if human eDNA could be obtained from a room's air conditioner. It's important to note that air conditioners work by recirculating the air in a room, not by drawing air in from outside.''

"It is very unlikely that an average offender, even with forensic awareness, could totally prevent their DNA from being released into the environment," says the lead scientist, Dr. Mariya Goray.''

That’s pretty amazing.

The killer seems to have been upstairs in the dressing area of the Shermans’ home where one of the belts he apparently retrieved and used was last seen. I’m not sure if that was Barry’s room or close to the master bedroom, but both were relatively smaller enclosed areas of the home.

 

[RHR]

FWIW— I’m not sure how current this information still is, but I found this detail in this last sentence I had overlooked in KD’s book (page 296 in my ebook):
View attachment 495013

The masseuse and Honey’s assistant left around 2:40. So it seems the workers and the agent were in the home when Honey likely left the home around 4:30. There was a PIN code entry in the security system at 4:34. That may have been Honey setting the side door entrance or most zones in the home possibly except for the basement zone if they were there, imo.

One thing the agent said about the house tour on Friday was she was surprised to find the one basement door that led out to the patio unlocked. She also said the front basement window was open about 6”(the workers had opened it to air out paint fumes).

If the WM arrived on Wednesday evening around 8:00-ish and saw that window open, they may have known that basement security zone wasn’t armed, imo.

I’m not suggesting anything about the workers (and no one has), I’m just speculating.

I still believe someone close had access to Honey's emails and knew all of her comings and goings etc. The assistant said Honey didn't have a password.

 

[RHR]

The OCR home was still lived in by HS and BS. Didn't the agent have to make an announcing call previous to a next showing?

There was a lockbox so i am sure if she couldn't reach them she was given permission to show the house.

 

[RHR]

She did. But when they couldn’t reach Honey on Thursday they made the decision to go ahead with the showing on Friday morning anyway.


That’s pretty amazing.

The killer seems to have been upstairs in the dressing area of the Shermans’ home where one of the belts he apparently retrieved and used was last seen. I’m not sure if that was Barry’s room or close to the master bedroom, but both were relatively smaller enclosed areas of the home.

Well, i am sure the police didn't do any of that type of checking and since the house was demolished it's all in the wind.