Canada - Coronavirus COVID-19 #3

[Sundog]

Lifestyle choices of alcohol, cannabis, cigarettes, etc are heavily taxed to compensate for potential increase in health care needs. Over-eating is not taxed, but it has similar increased costs for personal health care. People who make unpopular personal choices are financially accountable for those choices.

Health ministers make recommendations to provincial governments regarding pandemic restrictions and mask-use. Politicians don't make decisions about restrictions. Politicians are the messengers who communicate health recommendations - which are based on science and designed to ensure that hospitals are not overwhelmed and patients are not triaged.

The protesters want Trudeau to tell provincial governments how to manage pandemic restrictions (which constitutes a loss of freedoms at the provincial level), and they are demanding that federal and provincial governments ignore health ministers and medical doctors.

Protesters have made Prime Minister Trudeau and provincial leaders the bad guys when health experts are making the decisions. Let's put blame where it belongs. Canadian medical experts are to blame and are responsible for pandemic restrictions. If the protesters spent 5 minutes thinking about the origin of pandemic restrictions, they would never have mentioned Trudeau. Someone else put it in their heads that Trudeau calls the shots on provincial pandemic restrictions, and they didn't question it.

That's interesting. In most of the states in the U.S., public health officials are advisory to elected officals, such as the governors, or the state legislatures. They aren't able to make public health decisions for the state, only elected officials can do that.

 

[otto]

That's interesting. In most of the states in the U.S., public health officials are advisory to elected officals, such as the governors, or the state legislatures. They aren't able to make public health decisions for the state, only elected officials can do that.

Canada and the USA are two very different countries with distinctly different governance.

This is the Canadian public servant who informs about pandemic at the federal level.

"Theresa Tam FRCPC is a Canadian physician and public servant who currently serves as the chief public health officer of Canada, who is the second-in-command of the Public Health Agency of Canada." (link)
​

This is the public servant who makes pandemic restriction decisions in BC

"Bonnie J. Fraser Henry OBC FRCPC is a Canadian physician who is the Provincial Health Officer for British Columbia, the first woman in this position. Henry is also a clinical associate professor at the University of British Columbia. She was a family doctor and is a specialist in public health and preventive medicine" (link)
​

Who makes pandemic restriction decision in BC?

"Provincial restrictions are in place to help stop the spread of COVID-19. The restrictions are made by the Provincial Health Officer (PHO) under the Public Health Act." (link)
​

The BC info is the same across the country.

<modsnip>

The fact that the protesters are so confused about who makes provincial pandemic restrictions certainly leaves some wondering who is behind this protest. Canadians should know better than to think Trudeau is responsible for provincial restrictions.

 

[Sundog]

Canada and the USA are two very different countries with distinctly different governance.

This is the Canadian public servant who informs about pandemic at the federal level.

"Theresa Tam FRCPC is a Canadian physician and public servant who currently serves as the chief public health officer of Canada, who is the second-in-command of the Public Health Agency of Canada." (link)
​

This is the public servant who makes pandemic restriction decisions in BC

"Bonnie J. Fraser Henry OBC FRCPC is a Canadian physician who is the Provincial Health Officer for British Columbia, the first woman in this position. Henry is also a clinical associate professor at the University of British Columbia. She was a family doctor and is a specialist in public health and preventive medicine" (link)
​

Who makes pandemic restriction decision in BC?

"Provincial restrictions are in place to help stop the spread of COVID-19. The restrictions are made by the Provincial Health Officer (PHO) under the Public Health Act." (link)
​

The BC info is the same across the country.

<modsnip>

The fact that the protesters are so confused about who makes provincial pandemic restrictions certainly leaves some wondering who is behind this protest. Canadians should know better than to think Trudeau is responsible for provincial restrictions.

You didn't mention if Tam's position is given authority to make federal restrictions under Canadian law, and, if so, under which legislation. I see that the provincial public health people can do that, but I wonder about at the federal level, if Tam is advisory to elected officials such as the PM, or if she is authorized to make the decisions herself.

 

[otto]

You didn't mention if Tam's position is given authority to make federal restrictions under Canadian law, and, if so, under which legislation. I see that the provincial public health people can do that, but I wonder about at the federal level, if Tam is advisory to elected officials such as the PM, or if she is authorized to make the decisions herself.

It's already been mentioned that the federal government has no say regarding provincial pandemic restrictions. There's probably information online regarding Dr. Tam's role with the federal government.

The protesters want the federal government to interfere with provincial health officers, and provincial governments that respect medical doctor decisions. If that happened, it would a loss of freedoms to all Canadians to have the federal government interfering with provincial pandemic management.

 

[musicaljoke]

Is CBC owned by the Canadian government?

CBC is a crown corporation. The CBC operates at an arm's length (autonomously) from the government in its day-to-day business.

Concerns about media content are dealt with by Canada’s media councils, which are non-governmental, non-profit organizations that have been established to receive and adjudicate public complaints regarding press performance.

This protects the crown corporation from government interference.

 

[Sundog]

It's already been mentioned that the federal government has no say regarding provincial pandemic restrictions. There's probably information online regarding Dr. Tam's role with the federal government.

The protesters want the federal government to interfere with provincial health officers, and provincial governments that respect medical doctor decisions. If that happened, it would a loss of freedoms to all Canadians to have the federal government interfering with provincial pandemic management.

So does Tam make the vaccine mandates for the borders? Or Trudeau? Or someone else? It's not really clear from the information that has been posted. I get that provinces make their own decisions on mandates, but they don't make the decisions regarding the borders and mandates.

 

[musicaljoke]

So does Tam make the vaccine mandates for the borders? Or Trudeau? Or someone else? It's not really clear from the information that has been posted. I get that provinces make their own decisions on mandates, but they don't make the decisions regarding the borders and mandates.

That's a good question. I'm not sure that I understand the process completely, but I believe that the Chief Medical Officer of Heath is an advisory position, working with the Ministry of Health including the Governor in Council.

In an emergency situation, under the Quarantine Act, the Minister of Health may make a interim order prohibiting anything from entering the country that may contribute to the spread of a communicable disease.

The Governor in Council can make an order to preventing the spread of disease for as long as is deemed necessary. Whenever a piece of Canadian legislation mentions the 'Governor in Council' this refers to the Governor General acting by and with the advice of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada, i.e. the cabinet.

Quarantine Act

Federal Authorities During Public Health Emergencies - HillNotes

 

[MistyWaters]

It's already been mentioned that the federal government has no say regarding provincial pandemic restrictions. There's probably information online regarding Dr. Tam's role with the federal government.

The protesters want the federal government to interfere with provincial health officers, and provincial governments that respect medical doctor decisions. If that happened, it would a loss of freedoms to all Canadians to have the federal government interfering with provincial pandemic management.

Regulations pertaining to border crossings are under Federal control, not provincial. That’s why, regardless of the province, it’s the same across Canada.

Rolling back to Jan 25th, 2022 -
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/vaccine-mandate-double-down-convoy-1.6326821
Federal government won't budge on vaccine mandate for truckers as convoy heads for Ottawa

 

[MistyWaters]

dbl post

 

[MistyWaters]

You didn't mention if Tam's position is given authority to make federal restrictions under Canadian law, and, if so, under which legislation. I see that the provincial public health people can do that, but I wonder about at the federal level, if Tam is advisory to elected officials such as the PM, or if she is authorized to make the decisions herself.

I don’t think Dr Tam is the person making Federal restrictions, according to my previous link it refers to “the federal government” which using means the presiding government (Liberal Party) introduced a Government Bill in order to legally enforce the regulation. Of course passing such is always very much a follow the leader (aka Trudeau) initiative. Dr Tam’s role seems to be to be mostly a public spokesperson and I believe she keeps in regular contact with the Chief Medical Officers from the provinces. The Feds also supply the provinces with PPE, vaccines, Rapid test kits and COVID related medications. Her office is also tasked with disease prevention, although Canada was a little slow out of the gate in recognizing the pandemic to be as serious as it came to be.

 

[Satchie]

That's a good question. I'm not sure that I understand the process completely, but I believe that the Chief Medical Officer of Heath is an advisory position, working with the Ministry of Health including the Governor in Council.

In an emergency situation, under the Quarantine Act, the Minister of Health may make a interim order prohibiting anything from entering the country that may contribute to the spread of a communicable disease.

The Governor in Council can make an order to preventing the spread of disease for as long as is deemed necessary. Whenever a piece of Canadian legislation mentions the 'Governor in Council' this refers to the Governor General acting by and with the advice of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada, i.e. the cabinet.

Quarantine Act

Federal Authorities During Public Health Emergencies - HillNotes

As you point out, it is the cabinet that has the real power. They approved the trucker mandate by a vote, and it got passed directly into law, rather than going forward as legislation.

The Prime Minister doesn't have a legal position like the US president. The Liberals could, in theory, replace him, the way the Conservative leader was just replaced. He's one vote at cabinet. But, of course, if cabinet loses confidence in him, and start to disagree, the whole thing falls apart, as Erin O'Toole just discovered.

Also, border issues are handled by multiple federal agencies, as was the case in the US before 9/11. There's no department like Homeland Security here. So the details were worked out by agreement of 4 federal ministers: Health, Public Safety, Transport and Immigration (see the press release I linked above) . They would have presented the proposal to cabinet for approval.

[edited to add] Regarding the role of Tam, she only has power to offer advice. But I think Trudeau set the tone in the first days of pandemic restrictions, when he stated that all federal actions would be based on the best science available. That has to come from Tam, since none of the politicians are experts in infectious diseases.
JMO

 

[otto]

Regulations pertaining to border crossings are under Federal control, not provincial. That’s why, regardless of the province, it’s the same across Canada.

Rolling back to Jan 25th, 2022 -
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/vaccine-mandate-double-down-convoy-1.6326821
Federal government won't budge on vaccine mandate for truckers as convoy heads for Ottawa

True, but we've known from the beginning that even if Trudeau extends the vaccine exemption for truckers, and they can continue crossing the border without proof of vaccine, the USA has the very same restriction. Truckers still need to provide proof of vaccine to enter the USA. Canada cannot change foreign mandates.

Canada cannot fix their problem. Removing all border proof of vaccine for everyone? Is that what the protesters want? People can arrive from any country in the world with no vaccine proof at all?

 

[Satchie]

Removing all border proof of vaccine for everyone? Is that what the protesters want? People can arrive from any country in the world with no vaccine proof at all?

RSBM
Absolutely yes, I believe that is the argument. Get rid of anything that restricts the individual's freedom of travel.

Presumably, then, passports should be abolished. And border guards, who have a very freedom-restricting vibe. Okay then: Open all borders!

<modsnip>
JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

Interesting viewpoint from the UK.

Troll farms? - never heard of that before now.

The whole world should be worried by the ‘siege of Ottawa’. This is about much more than a few anti-vaxx truckers | Arwa Mahdawi

 

[otto]

Interesting viewpoint from the UK.

Troll farms? - never heard of that before now.

The whole world should be worried by the ‘siege of Ottawa’. This is about much more than a few anti-vaxx truckers | Arwa Mahdawi

Yes, Tamara Lich, a founder of the Maverick Party; the Western Separatist Party "Wegit," is the origin of this protest. She uses social media and questionable online fundraising to pay protesters to occupy Ottawa.

From your link ...

"What’s unfolding in Ottawa is not a grassroots protest that has spontaneously erupted out of the frustration of local lorry drivers. Rather, it’s an astroturfed movement – one that creates an impression of widespread grassroots support where little exists – funded by a global network of highly organised far-right groups and amplified by Facebook’s misinformation machine. The drama may be centred in Canada, but what is unfolding has repercussions for us all."
​

Artur Pawlowski, a spokesperson for the Coutts, Alberta border blockade was arrested this afternoon. He claims that he was going to deliver a church service in Milk River. He was most likely driving to Coutts to deliver another speech about Poland in 1945 and 1989 - a speech that makes people fear government oppression.

Protesters view medically mandated masks as government oppression.

 

[SouthAussie]

What the heck?? A lot of them have children there, inside their trucks.


The ‘freedom convoy’ in Downtown Ottawa has raised concerns about children that are taking part in the occupation of the Canadian capital.

Ottawa’s police department said in an update on Tuesday afternoon that “Investigative Units estimate that approximately 25 per cent of heavy vehicles are currently being used to house families with children.”

The Ottawa police said that the discovery of children in about 100 of the 419 trucks lining downtown streets is complicating their bid to end the protest.

Deputy chief Steve Bell on Tuesday said the police have asked for help from the Children’s Aid Society to ensure the safety of truckers’ children “who could be at risk during a police operation”, Toronto star reported.

He added there were concerns about the children being affected by carbon monoxide and diesel fumes, noise levels, the cold, and the lack of sanitation.

Canada truckers blocking Ambassador Bridge to US ‘problem Biden can’t ignore’ - live

 

[deugirtni]

WARMINGTON: Arrested 78-year-old great-grandfather 'meant no harm' by honking
“He’s just 4-foot-10,” said his son Steve. “He wouldn’t hurt anybody.”

“I meant no harm,” Gerry Charlebois told the Toronto Sun in an interview. “I just gave the trucker a thumbs-up and a honk.”

At the same time as concerns over honking in the city reached a fever pitch, Ottawa Police pulled over an elderly, retired Ottawa-area high school janitor.

He was not charged criminally but given a $118 bylaw ticket for “unnecessary noise.” But he did receive a physical takedown he won’t soon forget.

“I’m so sore,” said the father of four children, grandfather of 11 and great-grandfather of four. “It hurts so much.”

WARMINGTON: Arrested 78-year-old 'meant no harm' by honking in Ottawa | Toronto Sun

 

[deugirtni]

Ontario to roll out free COVID-19 rapid antigen tests at grocery stores

The Ontario government will distribute free COVID-19 rapid antigen tests at grocery stores, pharmacies and other settings.

A government source with knowledge of the plan told The Canadian Press that Health Minister Christine Elliott will announce more details on Wednesday.

The source said there will be a limit of one box of five tests per household per visit.

Ontario provided free rapid antigen test kits at malls and liquor stores in December ahead of the holidays.

The source said Ontario has directly procured more rapid tests and will distribute up to 5.5 million per week.

Ontario to offer free COVID-19 rapid antigen tests at grocery stores | Toronto Sun

 

[JDG]

According to 680News, the truckers are heading back to TO.

Some of them are not happy about the police involvement escalating in Canada’s capital so are coming to Ontario’s capital.

 

[deugirtni]

Ontario to roll out free COVID-19 rapid antigen tests at grocery stores

The Ontario government will distribute free COVID-19 rapid antigen tests at grocery stores, pharmacies and other settings.

A government source with knowledge of the plan told The Canadian Press that Health Minister Christine Elliott will announce more details on Wednesday.

The source said there will be a limit of one box of five tests per household per visit.

Ontario provided free rapid antigen test kits at malls and liquor stores in December ahead of the holidays.

The source said Ontario has directly procured more rapid tests and will distribute up to 5.5 million per week.

Ontario to offer free COVID-19 rapid antigen tests at grocery stores | Toronto Sun

I felt so horrible when I first read this story.. but then I watched the video. Gotta wonder if some certain, specifically chosen people might be getting some kind of a payment for doing certain things. jmo.