CANADA Canada - Elizabeth Bain, 22, Scarborough Ont, 19 June 1990 #1

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Im just happy that many of you are working this case with a open mind . Imo its way to easy for all of us to point the finger at bernardo and that makes people and police to stop looking because anytime bernardo 's name comes up you just automatically think yep thats who ot was because he is soo hatedanyway i just wanted to say good work people...
 
sorry but i just seen that .was this guy living in midland on...or is midland a street name in scarborough..
 
The street name is Midland in the article CanManEh.
 
Thank-you Snively for those articles!

So, beaten on the head and placed in the car - seems to be fact. The blood was determined by CFS to have been to fresh to be in the car Tuesday or Wednesday - suppressed info (basis of current lawsuit). LE thinks EB knew her killer.

From article in post #398 - according to Det Reesor, three other women went missing and their remains recovered (time frame not stated). Would like to know who they were and if there were they any convictions.
 
R.B. on R.W. 2010, fwiw..


http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2010/02/11/12846131-qmi.html

“The thought did occur to me that he was a runner and Liz was an avid runner who, even before she started her studies there, regularly jogged on campus so if he ran anywhere near the campus he would have certainly had many opportunities to see and/or meet her,” Baltovich said in an e-mail exchange with the Sun.

Police across the country have said they are investigating several cold cases to determine if Williams’ life intersects with them.

In the case of Bain, Williams already had left U of T.

Williams graduated from U of T with a degree in economics and politics in 1987 and by 1990 had his wings and was posted to the Canadian Forces Flying Training School in Manitoba as an instructor.

But Baltovich said he was astonished about the similarities in the two men’s early lives.

“I just can’t get over the fact that both (Williams) and Bernardo are the same age, both (allegedly) began as rapists, both (allegedly) progressed to murder ... neither was raised by their real fathers, both studied at UTSC at the same time."
 
Woodland,
Why does " beaten on the head " seem to be
a " fact ". We have no body, therefore we have no
idea where she was bleeding from.
Someone's theory or best guess is far from factual.
 
Going by info in this articel, post #399 previous page. BBM.


Elizabeth Bain knew killer: Police: [FIN Edition]
John Duncanson TORONTO STAR. Toronto Star [Toronto, Ont] 15 Nov 1990: A1.

Abstract (summary)

Metro police strongly suspect that [Elizabeth Bain], a University of Toronto student missing since June 19, was murdered by someone she knew.

[Steve Reesor] refused to say how Bain was killed but The Star has learned that she was killed by a hard object such as a rock, outside her car.

Bain, 23, a student at the University of Toronto, disappeared June 19. She was last seen by a friend near a picnic bench on the Scarborough campus.

Full Text

Metro police strongly suspect that Elizabeth Bain, a University of Toronto student missing since June 19, was murdered by someone she knew.

Detective Sergeant Steve Reesor, in charge of the investigation into her disappearance, confirmed today for the first time that police are treating it as a murder case.

Although her body has not been found, Reesor said DNA tests on blood found in her car have shown that it was hers and that she was slain.

Reesor refused to say how Bain was killed but The Star has learned that she was killed by a hard object such as a rock, outside her car.

Her body was likely then put in the car and removed from the scene of the killing.

Sources told The Star that blood found in the vehicle contained brain matter in such quantity that Bain could not have survived.


The identification of the blood was done by analysis of its genetic make-up, tests using highly sophisticated equipment that only recently became available for use by police in Ontario.

Homicide detectives are not releasing a psychological profile of the killer prepared by experts at the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation in Quantico, Va. Such profiles have proved to be highly accurate in other murder cases.

Bain, 23, a student at the University of Toronto, disappeared June 19. She was last seen by a friend near a picnic bench on the Scarborough campus.

Three days later, her bloodstained 1981 Toyota Tercel was found parked on Morrish Rd. near Kingston Rd.

Hundreds of volunteers have scoured ravines, creeks and parks in Metro's east end but so far have not turned up any clues to her disappearance.
 
The beaten on the head was concluded to be fact since they found brain matter in the pool of blood. This part was undisputed.

The forensics detailing the time the body had been in the car were inconclusive to time. The carpet of the car was determined to be still wet with blood when cut from the car. Basically the top of the carpet was dry but the bottom of the carpet was wet. From what I understand there was then and there is still to this day a dispute of exactly how long the blood could have been in the car. The one thing that is indisputable was the lack of maggots so it seems the body was put in the car very shortly after she was hit or fell and she was probably alive in the car but mortally wounded. It is possible she got in the way of fight or shoving match and simply fell and hit her head, but if that was the case, why didn't whoever was there just take her to the hospital and explain it was just an accident when she got in the way. It would have been a terrible accident, but an accident nonetheless. That's why I think it is accurate she was hit with something and then placed in the car and whoever placed her in there already thought she was dead or was dying. I still think there were two people involved, with one reason being the difficulty of one person carrying dead weight even though she was not very heavy. I think she was wrapped in one of the blankets she carried in her car and carried to the car. Testimony does mention her having two blankets in the car and one for sure was seen on the passenger seat by the lady walking her dog. I haven't been able to find any information about how many blankets were found in her abandoned car.

Between the lack of maggots and the receptionist remembering her car was outside 3rd on the Wednesday morning it sure seems Liz was killed the on Tuesday (the first night) and transported the same night and her car left at 3r prior to them opening on the morning of Wednesday. The police believe the body was transported on Thursday but if her body was left in the car for two days there would have been maggots and on some of those hot days somebody would have almost certainly have smelled the body decomposing. I also heard the car did not smell like a body had been decomposing in it for two days in the middle of June, which tends to mean the body wasn't in the car for long. It is possible she wasn't killed on Tuesday evening, but it sure seems pretty ballsy if somebody came back and got put her in her car and moved her car after Wednesday morning. She was reported missing on Wednesday morning at 6:46 AM so police were actively looking for her and her car within a few hours after that, even if just casually during their routine day. Possible, but tres ballsy!

Russell Williams is an non-starter since he wasn't in the province at the time, and Bernardo stretches the circumstantial evidence far more than believable. Things like DuMaurier cigarettes found in the car and 102.1 on her stereo being put out as evidence are ridiculous since nearly everybody knew somebody that either smoked the two most popular brands (Players and DuMaurier) or smoked them or had them themselves. The same goes for the radio station since it was one of the most popular in Toronto at the time and I know she listened to the station.
 
Having trouble with Tuesday night - need a little help.

EB's car in the small lot near the park at 6:45 pm seems to be accurate. RB and luckily for him, someone else, was able to describe the car, some contents and the novelty fingers for that time. It's the description of the contents from the park walker that I believe.

So she's in the park, gets beaten on the head, mortally wounded and put inside her vehicle? It seems, given the bleeding in the car, placement in the car needs to happen almost immediately.

Does he/they carry her to her car from the park? Across the parking lot, even if small, seems a long way for this, let alone somewhere in the park. I'm thinking leaving her in the park would be ultimately decided on.

She is suppose to be in class - so risky to hang around in case people start looking for her.

She was alive in the park until after her class - made no attempt to attend? Did not call out if being held? Then she was hit?

Or was she long gone from the park?
 
Private eye uncovers 'startling' findings Convicted killer's fate hangs on new evidence: [AM Edition]
Nick Pron TORONTO STAR. Toronto Star [Toronto, Ont] 14 Oct 1993: A6.

Abstract (summary)

Although the appeal court won't review [Robert Baltovich]'s conviction until next spring, the police could get their hands on King's files before year's end.

It's expected, though, that their bail application will focus primarily on the rapist referred to at Baltovich's trial and his connection to the Lake Scugog area where it's believed [Elizabeth Bain]'s body might be buried.

"I'm sure of my findings," he said. "I wouldn't have spent this long on the case if I didn't believe in what I was doing . . . that I was on the right trail."

Full Text

Translate [unavailable for this document]

Private eye Brian King refers to it simply as "the files," fresh information he says could help free convicted killer Robert Baltovich from jail.

His findings are "startling" enough, says the amiable sleuth, to help Baltovich in his bid for a new trial, perhaps even win him an early release from jail until his conviction in the death of girlfriend Elizabeth Bain is reviewed by the Ontario Court of Appeal.

But the private detective knows that waiting in the background are some of the top detectives on the Metro police force, just itching to get their hands on his secret findings so they can do their own investigation and punch his work full of holes.

For months now, they've been hearing about the so-called new evidence uncovered by King, and how it purportedly points the finger at another man already in custody in another case.

They already know about some of King's findings. The information was used at Baltovich's trial when his defence team talked about a rapist who had been stalking the area around the University of Toronto's Scarborough campus, where Bain vanished without a trace in June, 1990.

But it's the new stuff, the fresh evidence locked away in King's safe, that has the detectives twitching with anticipation.

"If he's got it then let's see it so we can check it out for ourselves," said one detective.

Although the appeal court won't review Baltovich's conviction until next spring, the police could get their hands on King's files before year's end.

That's when lawyers representing Baltovich say they plan to launch another bid to free him on bail until his case is heard by the appeal court.

They've been turned down once already, but that was before King uncovered his new information, said defence lawyer Michael Engel.

In rejecting the bail bid a year ago, an appeal court judge said he wasn't convinced the 27-year-old psychology graduate would show up for his hearing.

Neither Engel nor King will elaborate on just what their new evidence is, saying it wouldn't be appropriate to reveal that information before it's submitted to the court.

It's expected, though, that their bail application will focus primarily on the rapist referred to at Baltovich's trial and his connection to the Lake Scugog area where it's believed Bain's body might be buried.

Baltovich was convicted last year of second-degree murder in Bain's death, and sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole for 17 years.

He had been dating Bain for more than a year when she vanished. Her abandoned blood-stained car was found on a street near her family's Scarboro Ave. home three days after her disappearance.

The crown's theory is that Bain had severed the romantic relationship and Baltovich, in a jealous rage, lured the 21-year- old into the woods at the campus where she attended night classes, and killed her.

According to the crown, Baltovich hid Bain's body but upon learning there was to be a massive search of the area, he drove her body in her car to the Lake Scugog area, dumped it, and returned the car to Morrish Rd. in West Hill.

Baltovich did not testify at his trial, but has maintained his innocence all along.

Lawyer Brian Greenspan launched an appeal of Baltovich's conviction in May, 1992, arguing the trial judge unfairly expressed opinions in favor of the prosecution.

So for now, while police wait patiently for the much-anticipated King files, the defence team mulls over its strategy in the case.

If their second bid for bail is rejected, will that hurt their chances to get Baltovich a new trial? Engel doesn't think so. "The fresh evidence . . . is a powerful tool in the appeal."

By making a bail application before year's end, months before the Court of Appeal rules on Baltovich's conviction, the defence team will have to make full disclosure to the courts and the police.

It means police detectives will have several months to pore over King's findings.

"If it were me making the call," said one detective, "I don't see any advantage to making early disclosure."

King said he stands by his investigation, which includes videotaped statements and sworn affidavits, including one from a key witness in another murder case.

In fact, said the 35-year-old private eye, he's almost flattered by all the attention some of Metro's top cops have paid to his investigation.

"The homicide squad has never really been challenged like this before," he said in an interview at the office of King-Reed and Associates Ltd., the private detective agency he co-founded 10 years ago.

"I'm sure of my findings," he said. "I wouldn't have spent this long on the case if I didn't believe in what I was doing . . . that I was on the right trail."

* With files from John Duncanson.

I'm assuming the rapist referred to in the article is the Scarborough Rapist which proved to be Paul Bernardo. There is no doubt the rapist was on the radar of everybody as a suspect. My question is it seems the police believed the body was dumped near Lake Scugog as the rapist (Bernardo) seemed to have a connection to the Lake Scugog area. What was that connection?

The second question is have is that King says he has a statement (I'm assuming witness testimony, but it could possibly be motive or opportunity related) from a "key witness in another murder case." So who is this witness that King refers to and what was his statement?
 
you guys are assuming that the news articles are 100% accurate in their details regarding the "brain matter" amongst other things they report.

for instance the quote below about the cab driver spinner. well spinner is not a cab driver, nor was it ever said by the person who called into the
radio station that spinner was a cab driver. the caller said " every cabby knows who spinner is ".
and they've taken that and just assumed he was a cab driver.
spinner has be located and he is not a cab driver and never was, of that i can guarentee

""By John DuncansonTORONTO STAR

A cab DRIVER nicknamed "Spinner" and a witness who saw a man park Elizabeth Bain's car the morning she disappeared may lead police to her killer, detectives say.""
 
Regarding the murder.

Horrendously, EB's head was pulverized. Then she was possibly wrapped in a blanker from her car, but definitely placed in her car.

So someone had blood on them when this event was over. Does anyone know if blood was found in or around the drivers seat?

If it was a rock or similar item, it had blood and other matter on it as well. Seems no such weapon was ever found. Have to think if such an item was in the park, it would have been found. Having trouble with someone carried EB and the rock. Did the park have rocks handy at various locations?
 
you guys are assuming that the news articles are 100% accurate in their details regarding the "brain matter" amongst other things they report.

for instance the quote below about the cab driver spinner. well spinner is not a cab driver, nor was it ever said by the person who called into the
radio station that spinner was a cab driver. the caller said " every cabby knows who spinner is ".
and they've taken that and just assumed he was a cab driver.
spinner has be located and he is not a cab driver and never was, of that i can guarentee

""By John DuncansonTORONTO STAR

A cab DRIVER nicknamed "Spinner" and a witness who saw a man park Elizabeth Bain's car the morning she disappeared may lead police to her killer, detectives say.""

I'm definitely trying to avoid a blind belief in anything that has been said or determined so far - witnesses, LE etc. For my own satisfaction, have thrown the baby out with the bath water so to speak.

Fwiw - did not believe the 'Spinner' thing when I read it earlier - how could the cops not find a cabbie nicknamed Spinner? Did not seem reasonable to me.
 
Kemo;

EG #1, was a friend of RB's not really sure if he was a " good " friend as to how close a friend he was.

EG#2, diary EG, i believe he was an old boyfriend of EB's. RB was aware of his existance. The previous tuesday, EG-2, called EB while she and RB were
watching a movie with a kid she was in charge of that night, developely challenged i think. EB told RB it was EG-2 that called as she hung up fairly
quickly.
EG-2, was not the guy waiting at EB's classroom, RB had never seen him, though he knew of his existence, and from EB's description of him, RB thought it
might be him. Maltese looking i think she described to RB as in the book.
However, the guy that was waiting there was found by police and gave a statement back then that he in fact did see RB on the second floor at that time looking down. This statement was never forwarded to the defense, and the crown said this person never existed and that RB was lying about the whole
incident.

EB-2 was never a suspect. only RB was ever a suspect.
if i remember correctly EB-2 says he was at the beach playing volleyball that evening, but would have to check on that. not sure if it was
ever confirmed or not.
 
I'm trying to get a handle on the 2 "EG's" and whatever role they may have played in EB's disappearance.

EG#1 was a good friend of RB who went with him to the gym to speak with people who may have seen RB there Tue evening and help "shore up" RB's alibi.

EG#2 was a guy EB mentioned in her diary as someone she met "on the sly". EB wrote that they "walked around hand in hand". EB told RB some kind of story to explain away her absence that day. RB did not not know him then. RB later learned about his existence during the investigation. Apparently Saw somebody at EB's 7:00 who appeared to be waiting for someone at the same time he was waiting for EB. He later concluded that it was EG#2.

First, is the above correct?

I would assume that EB#2 denies meeting with EB that night, sitting with her at the tennis courts and having anything to do with her disappearance. Does anyone know if he had an alibi or was "officially" ruled out as a suspect?
Was he really at EB's class that night? (that would essentially alibi both him and RB)
What does he look like, blond?
Was there anyone else she was having any kind of "dalliance" with? Did her friends and her sister deny that there was anyone else she was "interested in"?

I am interested in him both as a possible suspect but also as an important witness as to what EB was up to and what sort of a relationship she might be having with whoever she was meeting with that afternoon (who very likely killed her). She appears to have used some deceit to her mother to go to the tennis courts. Some kind of meeting with someone she didn't want her mother to know about. Someone not mentioned in her diary. We can't be sure she actually met that person by she ended with someone in her car who killed her (I am assuming she was killed in her car; it is very unlikely someone caused her to bleed and then put her into the car). If the witnesses are to be believed, she let this person drive her car. Was this some mystery lover she kept secret from the world was this prospective new Boy Friend she was checking out?

I am inclined to doubt RB was involved but I can't see an obvious explanation for what was going on with her and the guy who did kill her.


There are some differences regarding EG#2 between post #397 and #416.

Still waiting on books I ordered so, is it possible to clarify if EG#2 was an ex-bf or was he someone EB was seeing occasionally leading up to her murder?

Between the two posts, EG#2 was waiting outside EB's class when it finished on the Tuesday night and he wasn't there.

Tia.
 
"EB and other guys".

i just want everyone to know that EB was in no way or any way an "easy" girl. no one on here has accused her of that, but we are and will be talking about other guys she may have been "seeing" while still RB's girlfriend.
RB was her first sexually as she states in her diary. EB was a beautiful young lady, inside and out. It is apparent that she had some emotional problems,
and no way of dealing with them. There were issues from her childhood she relates to as buried emotions she had never dealt with. Exactly what they were
we don't know.
I don't think she knew how to say no to someone in need, and i'm sure her friendly demeanor would be taken for flirting by any guy. If her ex boyfriend asked her to go for a walk cause he was in bad shape and needed to talk to someone, she would not hesitate to do that, even if it meant doing it behind
her present boyfriends back. She may have been very naive in how she was coming across to guys which to them they felt she was putting out signals she
was interested.
Anyway, just want to make sure that everyone is on the same page in regards to EB's beauty and innocent naivity and she was not a "player". Just a messed up young lady trying to understand who she was and where she was going in life.

thanks for reading.
 
Woodland;
kemo was just asking questions regarding the EG's and stating his understanding of what he read on them in earlier posts.
I was just clarifying things for him.
kemo was wondering if he read the previous posts as EG2 being outside the classroom as per my description of the incident.
and i just clarified in 416 that RB thought it might be him cause of the description from EB, but RB had never met or saw EG2, but did
know of his existence. but in fact the person outside EB's classroom was not EG2.

i need to learn how to quote things to make it easier as to what i am replying to. where are the kids when you need technological help, lol

it states in the book that EG2 was an ex boyfriend, and in her diary he had been calling lately. i don't believe she was seeing him on the side as in
"seeing" him. just talking and walking with him because she felt he needed her.
 
"EB and other guys".

i just want everyone to know that EB was in no way or any way an "easy" girl. no one on here has accused her of that, but we are and will be talking about other guys she may have been "seeing" while still RB's girlfriend.
RB was her first sexually as she states in her diary. EB was a beautiful young lady, inside and out. It is apparent that she had some emotional problems,
and no way of dealing with them. There were issues from her childhood she relates to as buried emotions she had never dealt with. Exactly what they were
we don't know.
I don't think she knew how to say no to someone in need, and i'm sure her friendly demeanor would be taken for flirting by any guy. If her ex boyfriend asked her to go for a walk cause he was in bad shape and needed to talk to someone, she would not hesitate to do that, even if it meant doing it behind
her present boyfriends back. She may have been very naive in how she was coming across to guys which to them they felt she was putting out signals she
was interested.
Anyway, just want to make sure that everyone is on the same page in regards to EB's beauty and innocent naivity and she was not a "player". Just a messed up young lady trying to understand who she was and where she was going in life.

thanks for reading.


21, furthering her education, beautiful, at the cusp of flying on her own - wish I could tell her 'you go girl'!! She did not need an exclusive bf at that time of her life - too much to see and do, imo.
 
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