Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #18

[sandbar]

About Youth Criminal Records in Canada, if either B or K had prior run-ins with police, why the information wouldn’t be released (nor provided to an employer) -

Having a Youth Record | Legal Rights for Youth

But it might explain why they fled rather than voluntarily contacting police when they were initially named missing persons, even before they knew they were being pursued.

Thanks for that.

 

[srper2]

There is no point in anyone to doing a criminal background check on someone who is 18, because juvenile criminal records are sealed. Which means no one has access. I believe possibly if a juvenile was charged as an adult, you might get a hit, but they would have had to be VERY young when they committed the crime to not still be in jail.

Kam was 19.

 

[LoisLane]

Could you maybe post a screenshot of this? Because I have watched the video 1000 times and at no point have I ever seen Bryer's shirt. As far as we can tell, all the fussing with the buttons is purely for show.

Also, shoplifters tuck their loot into their pants. It would not fall out of the jacket because it is not in the jacket. It's in the pants.

I can try..

Pants work too. I guess it would depend on the item whether to slide up the sleeve or stuff in the pants.

 

[srper2]

Thanks for that.

Kam was 19, Bryer was 18, are they deemed as adults at 18 or 19 or older in Canada?

 

[SnooperDuper]

How do we know they had no prior history of violence or criminal behaviour? People close to the two are not going to tell the media the life history of these two. Why would they? The homicides they’re accused of are horrific enough without SM spouting off to the family members, Child Services, mental health experts, the Port Alberni police or the community in general (pick one) with “why didn’t you do something, you should have known!” because that’s what always happens when any sort of negative background in the slightest leaks into the media. If anything, I’m certain those closest want to be left alone in dealing with their grief and regrets. Remember there’s also other younger families members who are impacted by this tragedy, aside from B&K’s parents. Extended family could also include dozens of cousins living in Port Alberni who are school-aged as well.

When the final police report is issued, they may include background history but I wouldn’t expect it to be detailed. JMO

I swear I read an account by Tommy Ste-Croix, the guy who helped KM and BS in Cold Lake where the said he was talking to the RCMP officer and sort of being amazed by all of this and the officer offered that the two had "no criminal record". TSC did a lot of media and it may have been a video interview. At the same time TSC's story sort of grew over time (to include the sleeping bag that appeared in the river). So make of that what you will.

 

[sandbar]

Kam was 19.

Yes, but we don't know how old he was when he applied for his job. If he was 19, then Walmart could ask for the number of months.

 

[katydid23]

Hello steelybird, I'm equally as happy to clarify as have the faults in my theory disproved.

No, I don't think they played any part in either of the crimes.
But neither were they set up.
Framed, I believe they were.

The bigger picture is begun painting by two youths with zero life experience, zero work resume or ethic, setting out to find work in differing tall tales of somewhere 'up north'. My reading of some excellent analysis here is that they possessed the mind set of fifteen year olds.

I don't know much about gaming but for this: you can start over and over again anytime you've been 'killed', and being not allowed to play causes tantrums.

My theory has them tiring pretty quickly after the long first drive, and beginning to lounge around at campsites in uncertainty, drinking and plugged-in. They eventually were spotted by some seriously evil dude who offered them some easy cash, by driving a rav4 he'd just bought back to his cabin in Manitoba. They would meet up at the designated isolation, for their pay, then drive back to BC to collect their campertruck.

Early in their drive, the truck is then torched close to LD's corpse, with no intent to hide it. The pair follow their given route to Manitoba and are indeed met at some point later by the same guy. To get to his own vehicle for the pay-out and drive back, he leads them through the scrub before shooting them, with their own gun or one that can be traced back to LD. The rav4 is torched on his way out, acting as a further link.

The horrific killings require a certain rage and execution which appears to my experience as being way, way beyond anything these two kids were capable of producing. Then of course, there is drug-induced erratic behaviour which overrides all logic.

Sitting in a juror's seat for a moment, I'd be looking for no 'doubts' of guilt. There won't be a trial however, frankly everything I've read so far would have us dismissed in time for lunch.

I am trying to figure out the timeline, for this scenario.

So ED, EvilDude, has already killed the professor. And he is camping out, has the Rav4, and his vehicle, both nearby? And the camper would be there too? Where would this be?

And ED pretends to want the guys to drive the Rav4 to Manitoba? What were they planning to do with their camper at this time? [wasnt it already set on fire by then?]

So they agree, and go on to Manitoba? Do they just leave their camper there at the campground?:

So you said" Early in their drive, the truck is then torched close to LD's corpse, with no intent to hide it. "
Who torches the truck? ED? Then het gets in his own vehicle and drives to the meet up spot?

Does Ed throw all that stuff around in that battered boat too?

And then what about the video? He convinces these guys to make a murder/suicide video before he kills them?

I'm thinking investigators could tell if there was a guy sitting right there pointing a gun at them, as opposed to them being alone, and starving, and eaten up by bugs, and wanting to die.

But who knows?

 

[srper2]

Yes, but we don't know how old he was when he applied for his job. If he was 19, then Walmart could ask for the number of months.

My question was in response to people wondering if they had a history of violence and criminal activity! I was just asking if Canada did criminal background checks. So you are saying that a seriously dangerous/abusive young criminal could get a job in a hospital or nursing home or child care centre etc. and they would have no idea of the dangers posed!

 

[sandbar]

Kam was 19, Bryer was 18, are they deemed as adults at 18 or 19 or older in Canada?

The age of majority is 18 in six provinces: Alberta, Manitoba, Ontario, Prince Edward Island, Quebec, and Saskatchewan. The age of majority is 19 in four provinces and the three territories: British Columbia, New Brunswick, Newfoundland, Northwest Territories, Nova Scotia, Nunavut, and Yukon.
Child support for children at or over the age of majority - Part 2: Child Support Continued(2) - Putting Children's Interest First - Federal-Provincial-Territorial Consultations on Custody and Access and Child Support

 

[sandbar]

I can't understand why people are so objective to me having asked about Canada's criminal checks. I was asking a question! It was in response to people questioning if they had a history of violence and criminal activity!

I didn't mean any offence, I'm sorry.

 

[KR72]

The age of majority is 18 in six provinces: Alberta, Manitoba, Ontario, Prince Edward Island, Quebec, and Saskatchewan. The age of majority is 19 in four provinces and the three territories: British Columbia, New Brunswick, Newfoundland, Northwest Territories, Nova Scotia, Nunavut, and Yukon.
Child support for children at or over the age of majority - Part 2: Child Support Continued(2) - Putting Children's Interest First - Federal-Provincial-Territorial Consultations on Custody and Access and Child Support

Kam was 19, Bryer was 18, are they deemed as adults at 18 or 19 or older in Canada?

Under federal criminal law, they'd be considered adults, and if they would have survived and charged with murder, they would have had no protection under the Youth Criminal Justice Act which covers youth 12 - 17.

 

[MistyWaters]

BBM

“Both teens grew up in Port Alberni, a city of about 17,000 in mid-Vancouver Island, and had recently graduated from high school in the region. Both Schmegelsky and McLeod were said to have attended the Eighth Avenue Learning Centre in town, an alternate high school for teens who weren’t well suited to standard high school.”
https://www.kelownacapnews.com/news...ct-to-port-alberni-teens-wanted-for-3-deaths/

On another topic did anyone notice the Alternative School appears to be a Long Distance Learning Centre? If anybody hasn’t heard of them, they’re quite common throughout Canada and widely promoted as self-paced because the courses are similar to correspondence, with teacher support if required. But they’re not at all similar to a formal instructional classroom environment and students are not required to be physically present on a daily basis.

The wording “not well suited” to a standard high school can mean many things, from lagging behind to getting expelled.

 

[sandbar]

My question was in response to people questioning if they had a history of violence and criminal activity! I was just asking if Canada did criminal background checks. So you are saying that a seriously dangerous/abusive young criminal could get a job in a hospital or nursing home or child care centre etc. and they would have no idea of the dangers posed!

@MistyWaters posted this great explanation:
Having a Youth Record | Legal Rights for Youth

 

[KR72]

My question was in response to people questioning if they had a history of violence and criminal activity! I was just asking if Canada did criminal background checks. So you are saying that a seriously dangerous/abusive young criminal could get a job in a hospital or nursing home or child care centre etc. and they would have no idea of the dangers posed!

Probably not. Most hospitals and many nursing homes are staffed by either municipal or provincial employees and all levels of government are allowed to conduct a criminal background check on youths. Child care centres are different, but I don't think many of them would hire people under 18 anyway.

 

[MistyWaters]

My question was in response to people questioning if they had a history of violence and criminal activity! I was just asking if Canada did criminal background checks. So you are saying that a seriously dangerous/abusive young criminal could get a job in a hospital or nursing home or child care centre etc. and they would have no idea of the dangers posed!

In Canada our Justice System including youth is based on rehabilitation, not punishment as in the US. So the view is after someone has been convicted and they’ve followed their sentencing requirement, they’re good to go. But meanwhile, while on probation they’re required to report employment to their probation officer, which is also the safeguard on a seriously dangerous/abusive young criminal working in a hospital or child care center etc.

But I think this is verging OT.

The only reason I brought up the topic of the possibility of a prior juvenile conviction is to point out why the general public would not know one way or another. Me personally, I have difficulty believing either of these two were absolutely and indisputably “good boys” until July 14th, 2019 whether they were charged and convicted for any prior offences or not.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Just a comment about previous criminal records of the two - they'd only have criminal records if caught.

So they might've done petty stuff or harmed animals or who knows, but they'd have to get caught to have a record and we all know lots of crimes go unsolved!

Also IIRC, just as an example (not going off topic as I feel it's relevant to my point) - I don't believe killer duo Kruse Wellwood and Cameron Moffat had any criminal records and they did a heinous crime. Different type of crime but those B&K seem eerily similar in backgrounds (one lived with grandma, disturbing to peers at school).

They had a history of disturbing, violent behavior and troubled lives but no records. So it's possible to have a clean slate and then kill if the impulse or obsession is there. All MOO

 

[LoisLane]

Youth Criminal Justice Act - Wikipedia

Definition of youth
The Act governs the application of criminal and correctional law to those 12 years old or older, but younger than 18 at the time of committing the offence (Section 2 of the YCJA). Youth aged 14 to 17 may be sentenced as adults under certain conditions, as described later on in the Act. The Criminal Code, section 13, states "No person shall be convicted of an offence in respect of an act or omission on their part while that person was under the age of twelve years."

More helpful information in the link.

 

[MsBetsy]

Anyone else see a bit of contradiction ?

-- KM & BS end their lives off the beaten path as though they did not want to be found
---Yet they left final messages on their phone as though they expected to be found

Maybe they just did not want to be found alive.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

My question was in response to people wondering if they had a history of violence and criminal activity! I was just asking if Canada did criminal background checks. So you are saying that a seriously dangerous/abusive young criminal could get a job in a hospital or nursing home or child care centre etc. and they would have no idea of the dangers posed!

Certain areas of the hospitals require a CRC to get hired. When working in patient care or patient care areas they do, however I don't believe the IT and adminstrative areas do CRCs. I only know a little about this so hope that helps!

 

[MistyWaters]

I swear I read an account by Tommy Ste-Croix, the guy who helped KM and BS in Cold Lake where the said he was talking to the RCMP officer and sort of being amazed by all of this and the officer offered that the two had "no criminal record". TSC did a lot of media and it may have been a video interview. At the same time TSC's story sort of grew over time (to include the sleeping bag that appeared in the river). So make of that what you will.

I think it’s somewhat amusing how much this guy had to say after his “short, unremarkable interaction”. Maybe some day it’ll be enough, he’ll write a book!

BBM
“On July 21, 2019, at approximately 9:30 a.m., a north end resident of Cold Lake observed a vehicle stuck on a trail behind their residence. Two younger males were observed outside of a Toyota Rav-4. The resident assisted the pair in getting unstuck and they continued on their way after a short, unremarkable interaction.”
Canada Police Report