OneLostGrl
I'm going against the grain- I'm going sane
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2004
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A friend of mine would say, "She has a nice collection of Axis IIs."
hahaha. That's what my family name should be. LMAO
A friend of mine would say, "She has a nice collection of Axis IIs."
Aaahh, I found my way home.. the psych ward
The differences between mood disorders and personality disorders as they relate to actual mental illness as well as the major differences in symptoms.
Most of us (functional people) would get out from under parental control by getting a job and renting or buying a place.
You notice I said "functional," not "normal." They taught us in grad school, "Normal is a setting on a washing machine."
Answers to questions like this are the only possible "positive" outcome with regard to a case like this. I do think the evidence shows at least two generations of mental "defect" - Cindy's myspace post alone shows a martyr complex and she seems like a narcissist; in my own extended family, seems like narcissism is rampant, esp. in the 15-30 year old age group. So much societal/cultural focus on the self and parents living vicariously through their often very young children. I often wonder if hundreds/ thousands of years from now, history will show that the nuclear family will be seen to be responsible for a lot of society's ills.To sum it up...sociopaths break societal norms and are viewed more as criminals than mentally ill. It is NOT a diagnosis.
In my experience there is a presumption of environmental issues (some might argue genetics play a role) that is the underlying cause. With that in mind, when this case broke my thoughts were what's going on in the family that would cause the behavior that CA has demonstrated? As this case has progressed, lots of info has come out about family issues/history. I think it's only the tip of the ice berg. On the surface it looks like an intact family with productive and educated parents. The more we learn, there is a difficult history that has gotten CA to the point of demonstrating such significant and pervasive sociopathic behavior.
In my mind there isn't a question of IF she's a sociopath. My question has been what has CAUSED it?
Here's some general info you might find interesting.
Sociopaths often have histories of childhood abuse. Many have parents who abused alcohol or other substances. None of these possible causes, however, can explain the development of all sociopaths.
Children showing strong psychopathic precursors often appear immune to punishment; nothing seems to modify their undesirable behavior. Consequently parents usually give up, and the behavior worsens
There is also info out there that discusses parental bonding as influences with this type of behavior.
I could go on and on all day about anti-social versus mental illness. Sociopath is not a diagnosis, it is a term we use to clarify and explain behavior that violates the norms of society.
But again....WHAT HAS CAUSED THE SOCIOPATHY? That's the real issue in my mind.
Profile of the Sociopath
This website summarizes some of the common features of descriptions of the behavior of sociopaths.It seems that the features of a sociopath and a narrcistic are about the same. I have been a victim of a narrcistic person and can tell you the
KC definately seems like she has a narrcistic personality disorder. When you deal with a person like this it does affect everyone in the family. They have a way of warping reality and it almost seems like CA is struggling to get
a grasp on reality. It sometime takes getting away from situation to realize
just how destructive someone that is narrcistic can be. CA seems to be struggling with the fact that life as she thought it was does not exist. That
her daughter is not the person she thought she was. CA blinders have been removed and she is struggling to deal with reality. Do not under estimate KC's ability to manipulate others. KC is an expert in conning others especially her family.
I think you are right and not trying to be a smart butt, but in reference to the bolded part above.....I think it's obvious from Cindy's behavior why Casey didn't bond with her, Cindy is a Narcisstic, tyrannical dictator.
I remember what Rev. G said, "Casey was desperate to get out of that house"..... I think Casey had a very miserable life growing up and due to various issues grew into a sociopath.
One other thought I've been wanting to make, I think Casey is enjoying CA making a fool of herself in the national media....Casey is sitting back saying "see what craziness I've been putting up with all my life!" ...and she's enjoying watching Cindy squirm and fight. Casey may go to jail, but psychologically Cindy is going down with her and that's o.k. with Casey.
When you figure it out, you can email us from your private island. There is the usual nature v. nurture thing going on. Bad upbringing, or bad seed? Opinion is pretty divided. Among the "nature" afficionados, it's claimed that more are being born, these days.
Reply to future_criminologist
I agree, Casey isn't mentally ill. Many people use that word casually to describe erroneous or disturbing behaviors as being a symptom of a greater mental illness. It is common for people to refer to someone who has committed an unthinkable crime, such as killing another person, as being mentally ill because it provides a level of comfort. No one wants to simply delineate a loaded word such as "sociopath" by saying that the person simply lacks a conscience but it otherwise quite similar to an average person. With that said...
Casey displays characteristics of a sociopath. She also displays characteristics of having a personality disorder. I am leaning toward her having a narcissitic personality disorder because she fits so many of the symptoms. She lies about or exaggerates her achievements and/or position in life. She is competitive when it comes to success. One of her friends indicated in the 400 page document that she always felt the need to one-up people. She takes advantage of other people. She has trouble maintaining healthy relationships. She sustains the appearance of being tough and appears to experience little to no real emotion. She fails to recognize other people's emotions and feelings. These are all symptoms of this particular disorder and not at all uncommon among sociopaths who commit crimes. There are symptoms that I cannot be sure she fits such as setting unrealistic goals for herself, being consistently jealous of others, expressing disgust or disdain for those she feels are inferior to her, believing that others admire her or are jealous of her, believing she is extraordinary or special, and of course believing she is better than other people. It would appear she fits some of those signs as well, but I am not Casey so I cannot say with any certainty.
From a psychological perspective Casey will not crack unless she feels 100% cornered and can see some conceivable way to mitigate the damages to herself. She will never talk because she feels guilty or because her actions are hurting other people. If the police had told her in the beginning that someone close to her had confessed and that the first person to reveal the location of the body would be the person to serve the least time...she probably would have confessed to save herself, provided she believed someone told on her. She did tell someone else because she believes the people who have a vested interest in her will ultimately stand by her. She's also manipulative so she holds some cards of her own. If she's confided in someone she believes that person will not tell because of their own personal involvement. She believes she is smarter than law enforcement and that if she can just keep her wits about her she will come out of this thing unscathed. She's moving on, emotionally, from whatever has happened. She probably took specific steps to do that as indicated by the 400 page document (deleting pictures of Caylee off of myspace, etc.). She is most likely irritated that there is so much focus on Caylee, but that is obviously something she'd have to keep to herself.
She isn't so much embarassed when she is caught in lies as she is annoyed that she has to come up with new ones and work harder to manipulate her subjects. One flaw that she has is that she is so sure that people will believe her lies she isn't really careful about thinking them through ahead of time. She is so confident in the way she tells lies that even when people have known she is lying in the past they have failed to call her out most of the time. This might have contributed to a false sense of security on her part, making her more apt to tell lies that are more transparent.
Law enforcement would have done well in the beginning to have Casey make a very detailed statement about what she did every single day in the dates leading up to her daughter's disappearance and the dates after. Granted, no one would ever remember everything, but coaxing her to talk and cornering her into giving information such as times, dates, places, alibis, etc. would have helped the police to pin her in a corner later on. Had Casey been asked many more open-ended questions that seemed innocuous she would have responded by giving a lot of information. Casey likes to talk and feels comforted when she is given the opportunity to speak at length about something - especially if it involves justifying her actions. She's good at talking, but again, her mouth works faster than her mind and so talking would have been a way to get information from her. Police were focused on getting truthful information from her, which is important, but they lost sight of the fact that this woman isn't really a clever liar. She kind of digs her own grave when she's given the proverbial shovel to do so. Someone needs to hand her that shovel. Unfortunately, she now has a lawyer who will make darned sure that doesn't happen.
Finding Caylee's body will have a dramatic effect on Casey. It would scare her significantly, though she will not show that fear to the average person. Once police can conclusively say that child is dead and no one can argue that the wheels in Casey's head will begin turning furiously. Finding the body gives LE the upper hand. I hope they do find Caylee. I wish I were among the minority who believe she is alive. That would be a miracle and a wonderful thing. My heart breaks for that child.
That's my two cents as far as how Casey thinks.
I am not bashing Cindy in saying this but I really wonder if she is an alcoholic. It's a mixture of how she carries herself, and a certain look about her. I can't explain it right now.
I'm no expert and haven't really even talked to any about something like this, but I believe that some things are inherited. To me, an enabler also has some sort of personality disorder and the two have some twisted relationship that feeds off each other. One may manipulate the enabler and get them off in another direction distracted from what the sociopath has really done. One thing I've wondered about the family in this case is if Casey may at times be either totally bad or totally good in Cindy's eyes which is a symptom of personality disorder. She was talking bad about Casey to R.P. warning him to stay away because she is a sociopath. She went from threatening Casey with arrest to totally defending her as mother of the year. Definitely abnormal if this is how they live their daily lives.
Sherbie-
That is a refreshing take on this subject. And very insightful IMO. I know a bit about "psychobabble" and most everything said about Casey and Cindy has been nothing more than cliches IMO. Thank you for taking the time to put together such a thoughtful analysis.
I have a question for you. What do you make of the fact that Cindy allegedly told one of Casey's friend that Casey is a "sociopath"?
How or does this fact fit in with the dynamic you write about?
Sherbie...
Great post! How very well you describe the personality disordered! I grew up with a mother much like Cindy and the grandmother of your family member. They screw us up in ways they don't even realize. They were "just loving us, just taking care of us."
It took me years to get over the anger I had toward my mother for the damage she caused me and my siblings.
Just as an FYI, Bipolar isn't "caused" it is a brain disorder.