CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #21

[zero]

I bet you might get a reply.

A signed picture To my 1 fan lol

R.I.P. Autumn

 

[jenandemmie]

Here are a couple of quotes from the above article that I found interesting:

Quote:

Sigg's defense asked the judge to put all documents in the case under seal and issue a gag order, according to KMGH. The judge sealed the documents, but did not issue a gag order.


He was calm throughout the proceedings, interrupting the judge once to say he had not understood part of the hearing. It was explained to him by his court-appointed attorney.

As a former paralegal, I know how much most judges hate being interrupted by a defendant. Usually an attorney will tell his client not to speak to the judge directly unless asked to do so. When I read that AS interrupted the judge, my first thought was that AS sees this as "his" show, it's all about him and everyone else is an incidental player. Including the judge. JMO.

Former paralegal here too and I instantly winced when I read that part. I thought just what you did. He is such a narcissist. And judges don't play. On the rare occasions when I have been asked a direct question by a judge during trial, I froze solid for a few seconds until I could squeak out the exhibit number or whatever.

 

[rolltidemom]

If it was him recording might open death penalty or life in prison

R.I.P. Autumn

I thought that was not an option for him???

 

[Dr. Know?]

RIP, little Jessica. Fly Jess!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfM6nRVBvGs"]Allman Brothers - Jessica - YouTube[/ame]

 

[writer7]

Thought provoking and prescient blog post by author Nathan Bransford regarding violence saturating the youth of Colorado, written after the movie theatre shootings.



But I do know that story lines about teens learning to become violent badasses bother me. Stories that glorify vigilantism bother me. Stories that use our natural, inherent fascination with violence to cheaply entertain us bother me.

http://blog.nathanbransford.com/2012/07/violence-in-american-culture.html

Nathan's wonderful! I'm so glad to see his blog cited outside of literary circles

 

[writer7]

Dammit. Now I have to go look myself up. Oh goodie. Just what I always wanted to know.


!!!! It costs money? Forget it! I'll guess or make ***** up!

LOL! They are just the Myers-Briggs Personality inventory or somesuch like that. Myers-Briggs, in any case. I had a fascinating Jungian religion class on them once.

You shouldn't have to pay to find out about it. Google on!

I break them, myself I'm just that odd, ya know! (Seriously, I fall between the cracks with repeated retakings because I'm basically even on two of the scores.) Interesting stuff!

 

[msthinksalot]

Former paralegal here too and I instantly winced when I read that part. I thought just what you did. He is such a narcissist. And judges don't play. On the rare occasions when I have been asked a direct question by a judge during trial, I froze solid for a few seconds until I could squeak out the exhibit number or whatever.

YES! This! I tried to respond to that post earlier, but my computer kept freezing and I gave up.

I was a legal assistant/paralegal too, and judges do NOT muck around. Defense attorneys tell their clients this, too... you sit there, you pay attention, you don't talk, you don't interrupt a witness and you sure as heck don't interrupt the judge. You don't say anything to the judge unless you are directly addressed and you have to be quick and succinct. They don't like wasting their time, and they won't hesitate to let a defendant know if they're unhappy.

I used to go to court and help with exhibits, but once I had to testify in a divorce case gone horribly wrong, on behalf of the client of an attorney in a different firm in our building. I witnessed the client's soon-to-be ex-hubby screaming at the receptionist and then threatening to kill the attorney (who the receptionist called for help). The guy made a huge, ugly scene and then nearly crashed into our building while angrily driving off. After this, the client filed for a protection order and the guy contested it, and like any true narcissist, he represented himself. :floorlaugh:

So while I was testifying, the dude kept interrupting me and "objecting" -- none of the objections were valid. The judge got so angry at him that he finally told him to sit down and shut up until I was done and that he should look into hiring someone who knew what they were doing! :floorlaugh:

So yeah, as soon as I heard that AS interrupted the judge to ask a question about his rights, along with his new mohawk, it reminded me of that other entitled, narcissistic creep. That guy thought he could get away with anything, up to playing attorney. He lost at that hearing and her restraining order was upheld; even after that, he continued to represent himself (and kept losing). Only a pathological narcissist would do that.

 

[writer7]

my mom, a couple of years back:

" I've been trying to e-mail you, but I can't get the printer to work..."


HUH?

You have me snorting Sauvignon Blanc R'lling OTFL. For reals!

 

[Dr. Know?]

Hasn't that test been around for years and years? Maybe updated of course. The Myers-Briggs Personality inventory? Yes..

I need to dig out the test that the company I worked for in FL to see if it was that same test. About 90's that 56 other people I worked with took?

Myer's Biggs test have been around since the late 30's? Jung's mission started in 1921?

search google.

 

[CHERIE.T]

RIP, little Jessica. Fly Jess!

Allman Brothers - Jessica - YouTube

I knew I liked you....love the Allman brothers and that song. I'm glad you posted this for Jessica Ridgeway.

 

[Dr. Know?]

I knew I liked you....love the Allman brothers and that song. I'm glad you posted this for Jessica Ridgeway.

Back at ya. CT.

 

[HereIsMeAgain]

Quoting my own post for context.

I tried to outline and label what I saw in thinking the screen grab with the passenger mirror was a profile view. This is the first time I've ever attempted doing this and it's more of a rough outline (line's may go out further than the actual pic), but I just wanted to show what I meant by my previous post. I'm still clueless as to what (if that is something) it is that is covering his eyes and most of the nose. I can still see this image as a semi frontal view, but that doesn't make sense if there was no one in the passenger seat - the person would have to be much closer than sitting in the driver's seat to have that big of an image in the mirror. JMO & MMO

ETA: What I am seeing is not possible based on the way side view mirrors are positioned.

I thought that blob was bird poop. It's not transparent like a reflection :blushing:

 

[GrainneDhu]

Question I had is why didn't anyone see him in the process of hogtieing her?

Ok, so he puts her in the car, I assume she is screaming unless he had chloroform. But it does not seem like he set out to do this that day so maybe he did not have chloroform. He gets her in the car and ties her up. That had to take a few minutes, right? And the car would have been stopped right on the street w a kid screaming fighting off being tied up.

Was it just dumb luck that no one drove by? A car idling there would have attracted notice. Plus he would have had to drive her somewhere. Did no one see him at a stoplight, etc w a girl hogtied in the car?

Oh and he also says he strangled her, apparently while driving I think. How could that have happened? I read it takes a few minutes to strangle. She had to have been upright if he was in drivers seat. Would no one have not seen him in the 4 minutes or so he strangled her? The car would have been driven somewhat erratically if one was driving and strangling someone.

It does not add up, IMO. I think she has to have been knocked out quick. As the murder happened at a secondary scene not the car. I think someone would have seen if the murder happened in the car and he hogtied her,

I am way, way behind and this has probably been answered already. I wanted to add my take on it because I feel it includes an incredibly important point.

Many victims of assault freeze up. They don't fight back, they don't scream, they don't struggle. This is an absolutely normal reaction and it is one that is extraordinarily difficult to overcome. Taking a class on self defence or earning a karate black belt is usually not enough to overcome this normal instinctive response.

There is no known way to predict which people will fight back, which people will try to take flight and which people will freeze up. If there were some way to predict it, the military would save a lot of money in training costs by screening out people who freeze.

I am adamant about pointing this out because I lived through the era where a rape victim had not been legally raped unless she could prove that she fought off her attacker to the utmost of her abilities. This is no longer a legal requirement but the mindset persists: real victims fight and scream.

The truth is, while some victims fight and scream, many do not.

It is normal for a significant percentage of victims to freeze and comply with the person who attacked them.

If Jessica had the (normal) response of freezing up, then it may have taken less than 30 seconds for him to pull her into his SUV and hogtie her, using either zipties or rope. She was probably on the passenger front seat or in the passenger front seat footwell and not visible from outside the vehicle.

 

[LauraT]

Record show I think there is a second person...... that's also y a gag order in affect

R.I.P. Autumn

I think you may be right, I noticed before that his friends Youtube channels had been removed/disappeared too ie the ones he was playing Mario Cart etc with it :waitasec:

 

[concentric]

If Jessica had the (normal) response of freezing up, then it may have taken less than 30 seconds for him to pull her into his SUV and hogtie her, using either zipties or rope. She was probably on the passenger front seat or in the passenger front seat footwell and not visible from outside the vehicle.

-----------

For some reason I keep thinking that a door of that vehicle could also be a factor in his shielding those few seconds it took to pull her inside.

Before we knew it was him, I posted that it was entirely possible that someone could have been parked on the street and just grabbed her off the sidewalk after he put his hand over her mouth. There was mention in a news article that the sidewalks were very close to the street and I thought that a minor, but significant detail.

Also, maybe he did say something to her, while opening the door. It could have been as simple as one word to get her attention, such as "Hey" that caused her to stop or (freeze) a second so he could grab her and drag her in.

 

[writer7]

As far as the freezing up thing, I've done it myself Fortunately my body still reacted well in other ways, like running for my life. Unfortunately, my vocal cords got completely tight and screaming was not an option. I felt so guilty that I couldn't warn other people about the harm (long story); I just took off like a flash. They ran when they saw me run, so it worked out, btw.

The second time, I was seriously attacked by a dog in an enclosed space and was protecting all of my vitals and thinking well, but I just couldn't scream. I just get too tense to scream or something. I wasn't able to let someone know I needed help until far into it, and then it was a weak little voice that was hard to hear. It took enormous work to get those sounds out.

I've read stories where folks were frozen on train tracks, etc, and that is definitely within the range of normal. I'm thankful only my vocal cords are affected, but it's the worst feeling. People expect you to act differently!

 

[concentric]

Also, many perps. have literally blocked the path of victims with their vehicles. This is documented in many cases.

I know in the case when Amber Dubois was grabbed right off the street, the perp. said he showed her a weapon and ordered her to get in the car. Whether that is true or not, he did probably get her in his vehicle within seconds.

 

[MLO]

As far as the freezing up thing, I've done it myself Fortunately my body still reacted well in other ways, like running for my life. Unfortunately, my vocal cords got completely tight and screaming was not an option. I felt so guilty that I couldn't warn other people about the harm (long story); I just took off like a flash. They ran when they saw me run, so it worked out, btw.

The second time, I was seriously attacked by a dog in an enclosed space and was protecting all of my vitals and thinking well, but I just couldn't scream. I just get too tense to scream or something. I wasn't able to let someone know I needed help until far into it, and then it was a weak little voice that was hard to hear. It took enormous work to get those sounds out.

I've read stories where folks were frozen on train tracks, etc, and that is definitely within the range of normal. I'm thankful only my vocal cords are affected, but it's the worst feeling. People expect you to act differently!

Ugh! I have nightmares about that. Since I was 11 I have been dreaming about something bad happening but I am utterly paralysed. I dream that I try to scream but nothing comes out or I know I should scream but can't make myself do it. I also dream that I am in the middle of an emergency and need to ring home or emergency but can't remember the number. Unfortunately we get so many US tv shows that when I think emergency I think 911 instead of triple 0 so it's entirely possible I may do something so silly!

 

[GrainneDhu]

-----------

For some reason I keep thinking that a door of that vehicle could also be a factor in his shielding those few seconds it took to pull her inside.

Before we knew it was him, I posted that it was entirely possible that someone could have been parked on the street and just grabbed her off the sidewalk after he put his hand over her mouth. There was mention in a news article that the sidewalks were very close to the street and I thought that a minor, but significant detail.

Also, maybe he did say something to her, while opening the door. It could have been as simple as one word to get her attention, such as "Hey" that caused her to stop or (freeze) a second so he could grab her and drag her in.

I think you are right.

Jessica only weighed half what this suspect weighs. I think it's possible that he never even got out of his vehicle, just suddenly opened the door in front of her, leaned out, grabbed her and dragged her over his own body and into the vehicle.

Once he had her inside the vehicle, depending on what the angle of the light and any potential viewer, it may well have been impossible to see in any detail what was going on inside of the vehicle. Particularly if the hypothetical witness did not see the initial grab.

I know that if I saw indistinct motions inside a vehicle, I'd just think the people inside the vehicle were getting their stuff arranged. My mind would not make the leap to abduction in progress unless I'd already seen something like the initial grab.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Also, many perps. have literally blocked the path of victims with their vehicles. This is documented in many cases.

I know in the case when Amber Dubois was grabbed right off the street, the perp. said he showed her a weapon and ordered her to get in the car. Whether that is true or not, he did probably get her in his vehicle within seconds.

In the recent Wyoming abduction, the perp pulled up near a group of three girls and called out something about looking for a puppy. One girl approached the vehicle.

What her two friends saw was their friend hopping into the vehicle.

What was actually happening was that the perp showed the victim a gun as soon as she was close to his vehicle and she got in under duress. But the two witnesses could not see that part.