CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #4

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Yes, here's the link:

www.aspentimes.com/article/20110927/COLUMN/110929881&parentprofile=search
This is an opinion piece based on fact. This woman is a professional addictions counselor. Read more if you want to know more.
"
Colorado has double the national average, and Pitkin County has triple the national average. The Aspen Valley Medical Foundation commissioned a study in 2009 by the University of Colorado Depression Center, which found that historically a suicide happened every 11 weeks in Pitkin County. I find these very interesting statistics. Having lived in Aspen most of my life, I find it has always satisfied most of my needs and that the beauty of nature always seems to lift me up when I am down. "

Here's another:

According to the Hope Center, Pitkin and Garfield counties have higher rates of suicide than the state of Colorado, which has the sixth-highest rate in the nation. Most years, Pitkin County has three times the national average rate of suicide, but this year, Pitkin County is seeing fewer suicides than usual. However, rates in Garfield and Mesa counties are higher than usual.
link is: www.aspentimes.com/article/20110906/NEWS/110909929&parentprofile=search

Thanks! I wonder if attention now questioning the coroner will have other families speaking out? I know if I had a family member that died with the COD stating suicide and had this same coroner, I would want the autopsy reports looked at by another source as well!
Who really checks his work? Are coroner's even evaluated for job performance? Just wondering...
 
Just a thought does anyone know if these pills look similar in color and size?Maybe she thought she was taking flex. and it was ampt. or the other way around.If she got it from a friend maybe they are keeping there mouth shut out of guilt.
 
If there is a stalker (Which I believe there is) you would have to think this person is not going to quit. I'm scanning police reports in the post right now from the time M was killed until now. One thing that I can say, there are a lot of calls in that town for harassments and theft. What's odd to me, in some of these cases, it says case closed pending further evidence.

I do know that the residents of that town do not feel safe anymore. Here is a news article talking about it.

http://www.postindependent.com/article/20120802/VALLEYNEWS/120809998&parentprofile=search
 
If there is a stalker (Which I believe there is) you would have to think this person is not going to quit. I'm scanning police reports in the post right now from the time M was killed until now. One thing that I can say, there are a lot of calls in that town for harassments and theft. What's odd to me, in some of these cases, it says case closed pending further evidence.

I do know that the residents of that town do not feel safe anymore. Here is a news article talking about it.

http://www.postindependent.com/article/20120802/VALLEYNEWS/120809998&parentprofile=search

I don't find this unusual. Thefts are difficult to track. They have to catch the perp(s) in the act, or, in the possession of the object stolen. In the neighborhood I am in we had 30 such incidents in the last month (that is not the entire city, just a small neighborhood), no one caught yet, and LE telling us the same things mentioned in this article.

Harassment can be any number of things, arguing couples, neighbors, friends, phone calls, up to more serious issues.


Wonder if there still have peeping tom issues?
 
I don't find this unusual. Thefts are difficult to track. They have to catch the perp(s) in the act, or, in the possession of the object stolen. In the neighborhood I am in we had 30 such incidents in the last month (that is not the entire city, just a small neighborhood), no one caught yet, and LE telling us the same things mentioned in this article.

Harassment can be any number of things, arguing couples, neighbors, friends, phone calls, up to more serious issues.


Wonder if there still have peeping tom issues?

Are you talking about this article with the peeping tom?
http://www.postindependent.com/article/20120727/VALLEYNEWS/120729898
 
I have not followed this as closely as some but it seems to me the theories being put forth are pretty out there and this stalker must be some sort of highly trained super human with an iq above 200.

We have had night vision goggles mentioned, hacking email accounts, evading camera systems, breaking past home alarm systems, and now murder via transdermal patch? Unless she was assassinated by a foreign government I just don't see all of these things as being realistic.
 
I have not followed this as closely as some but it seems to me the theories being put forth are pretty out there and this stalker must be some sort of highly trained super human with an iq above 200.

We have had night vision goggles mentioned, hacking email accounts, evading camera systems, breaking past home alarm systems, and now murder via transdermal patch? Unless she was assassinated by a foreign government I just don't see all of these things as being realistic.

I agree Sonya.

I also see that it is suggested the ME is covering up a serial killer in the area. <modsnip>

We only have blog words to go on. We don't have any of the ME's reports, much less dated ones.
<Modsnip>

I don't think we will be seeing any official documentation unless some sort of legal action is started. I'm very curios about the ME report(s), toxicology, and autopsy reports.
 
I have not followed this as closely as some but it seems to me the theories being put forth are pretty out there and this stalker must be some sort of highly trained super human with an iq above 200.

We have had night vision goggles mentioned, hacking email accounts, evading camera systems, breaking past home alarm systems, and now murder via transdermal patch? Unless she was assassinated by a foreign government I just don't see all of these things as being realistic.

No, all the info is available on google, like the wiki cocktail. If the stalker already had a criminal history of drugs and/or stealing, it's not that much a leap that drugs left unattended could be stolen and repurposed.

There was no alarm system.

Also, I distinctly remember vodka tampons being in the news last year with respect to a teen trend....so the idea is out there in the public domain that drugs are very well absorbed from the nether regions.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2011/11/14/vodka-tampon-teens_n_1092594.html
 
Any thoughts on the email hacking?

How hard is that to do?

IME... 90% of the times when people have told me their email was hacked, they were wrong. Their email address was spoofed. It's the easiest thing in the world to do - in an email program, set up a new account and it will ask you what your email address is and what your name is. Tell it anything and it will believe you. Suddenly you're sending out emails as Bill Gates, bill@microsoft.com, but you've hacked nothing, accessed nothing. You just put the wrong details in and your email program believed it.

I've seen countless people claiming spammers hacked their email account because they start getting bounce messages, but that's almost never the case.

Morgan's friend's email addresses are unlikely to be state secrets and could have been sourced from anywhere. Unless she found the outgoing messages in her sent items folder, her account may not have been compromised.
 
Also, I distinctly remember vodka tampons being in the news last year with respect to a teen trend....so the idea is out there in the public domain that drugs are very well absorbed from the nether regions.

Alcohol laden tampons and enemas have been used for decades for recreational purposes (well enemas have probably been used for centuries). Inserting them during an assault in the victim's own home would prove problematic unless the victim was very very cooperative, they don't work instantly and I would think most victims would likely put up a struggle.

But I can hear the rebuttal, perhaps he used chloroform ahead of time to subdue her (at which point more chloroform or a pillow would be far easier and more effective than a drug laced tampon, which would have to be removed afterwards and could take a very long time to work, if it even did work). This brilliant stalker that simply wanted to secretly harass her and then cause her death and make it look like suicide, just because...because he was brilliant and crazy.
 
I have not followed this as closely as some but it seems to me the theories being put forth are pretty out there and this stalker must be some sort of highly trained super human with an iq above 200.

We have had night vision goggles mentioned, hacking email accounts, evading camera systems, breaking past home alarm systems, and now murder via transdermal patch? Unless she was assassinated by a foreign government I just don't see all of these things as being realistic.

The transdermal patch is just one among many possibilities - maybe you'll be more on board with either the injection under the fingernails or the slow poisoning by spiked yoghurt theory? Of course, since M was cremated, we'll never know for sure unless they catch this diabolical criminal mastermind and he confesses.
 
Alcohol laden tampons and enemas have been used for decades for recreational purposes (well enemas have probably been used for centuries). Inserting them during an assault in the victim's own home would prove problematic unless the victim was very very cooperative, they don't work instantly and I would think most victims would likely put up a struggle.

But I can hear the rebuttal, perhaps he used chloroform ahead of time to subdue her (at which point more chloroform or a pillow would be far easier and more effective than a drug laced tampon, which would have to be removed afterwards and could take a very long time to work, if it even did work). This brilliant stalker that simply wanted to secretly harass her and then cause her death and make it look like suicide, just because...because he was brilliant and crazy.

No, he didn't use chloroform...he used flexeril and Dalmane...She was feeling ill already when she got home. The drugs were in her system.
 
The transdermal patch is just one among many possibilities - maybe you'll be more on board with either the injection under the fingernails or the slow poisoning by spiked yoghurt theory? Of course, since M was cremated, we'll never know for sure unless they catch this diabolical criminal mastermind and he confesses.

No one said slow poisoning..This was one massive dose of amitriptyline, and it had to get into her system somehow since they didn't find the pills in her stomach.
 
No one said slow poisoning..This was one massive dose of amitriptyline, and it had to get into her system somehow since they didn't find the pills in her stomach.

Really? I recall whole pages of discussion about how the conspiracy could have reached right into the heart of the grocery store and M's favourite yoghurt could have been injected with drugs through the foil - or maybe I was just imagining it.
 
No one said slow poisoning..This was one massive dose of amitriptyline, and it had to get into her system somehow since they didn't find the pills in her stomach.

The drug she had a script for and had been taking? Did the autopsy report say no traces of the drug were found in her stomach or intestines? I haven't seen that, please post a link.

Amitriptyline is used for depression and anxiety disorders.
 
Really? I recall whole pages of discussion about how the conspiracy could have reached right into the heart of the grocery store and M's favourite yoghurt could have been injected with drugs through the foil - or maybe I was just imagining it.

Herding and I debunked slow poisoning...was confirmed by Dr. Doberson... this was one dose. The Ami to Nori ratio was too high for her to have been on ami prior to the fatal dose.

If you want to discredit all the odd ideas on how the drug got into her system, than you have to explain the plasma levels (lethal dose several times over) despite a lack of pills in her stomach. I don't think Morgan or her stalker hooked her up to an IV bag of amitriptyline.

If Morgan just wanted to check out, why would she bother to grind up the pills and how did she get the cup washed and put away without throwing up the awful tasting concoction or passing out from the flexeril and Dalmane?

This is an odd case...she did not swallow a few pills and go to sleep.
 
The drug she had a script for and had been taking? Did the autopsy report say no traces of the drug were found in her stomach or intestines? I haven't seen that, please post a link.

She had a scrip for 25 mg pills which would not have gotten her to the level she was at.

I never said she had no traces in her GI tract. I said because the drug redistributes postmortem, traces in her stomach could have come from her bloodstream without dosing by the oral route. I provided a powerpoint several pages ago.

This drug slows down the GI tract. With a massive overdose like this, there would have been pill fragments left over.

Here's an awesome case study of someone who died from chronic ami toxicity with a drug interaction that was initially ruled a suicide:
http://www.environmentaldiseases.com/article-drug-interactions.html

"Case Study - 3
Sudden Death in a 36-Year-Old Man
(This case is an example of how knowledge of drug interaction and the pharmacology plays a key role in the final analysis.)

A patient presented to his clinician with depression. He was otherwise physically healthy. There was harassment and discrimination on the job going on for several months, Human Resource office was involved to resolve the problem but nothing worked.

His doctor prescribed Amitriptyline (Elavil), 150 mg/day, and Fluoxetine (Prozac), 40 mg/day. The patient responded quickly. However, several weeks later, the patient is found dead at home.

An autopsy found no other cause of death. The results of the blood samples showed toxic levels of Amitriptyline and its active metabolite, Nortriptyline. The coroner signed this case out initially as a suicide. The insurance carrier argued suicide, and therefore the death is not the result of the emotional problems on the job and is not industrial.

The high levels of amitriptyline and its metabolites indicate a drug overdose. The patient had severe clinical depression which may lead to suicide.

On the other hand, there were several factors against suicide: 1) absence of suicide note, 2) no missing pills from his Amitriptyline prescription bottle, and 3) no pill fragments in his stomach.

The key here was the toxicologist's findings that no pills were missing and the autopsy did not find pill fragments in the stomach, which is against an acute intoxication from ingesting a large amount of pills.

The final answer about the cause of death came by examining the relative ratios of Amitriptyline to Nortriptyline in the gastric contents, blood, and tissue samples taken at autopsy. Amitriptyline is converted into Nortriptyline. After taking Amitriptyline on a regular basis (for a week or more), an equilibrium (steady-state) is reached between the blood and deep compartments in the tissue. Once steady-state is reached, the ratio of Amitriptyline to Nortriptyline is the same in the tissue compartment as it is in the blood.

In an acute Amitriptyline overdose we would expect that the highest ratio of Amitriptyline to Nortriptyline would be in the stomach fluid, next highest in the blood, and lowest in the deep compartments. In this case, the ratios in stomach fluid were the same, proving that this patient did not die from an acute overdose. Meaning that the ratio of Amitriptyline to Nortriptyline in the stomach and blood were not high, meaning that much time went by (at least 1 week) to reach this ratio, which is against an acute intoxication.

A month later, the death certificate was corrected to show death occurred as a result of a unintentional overdose of Amitriptyline consistent with Prozac-induced inhibition of Amitriptyline metabolism. The metabolism of Amitriptyline was inhibited by Prozac and therefore Amitriptyline levels kept rising in the blood. Here the Prozac inhibited the enzyme which metabolizes Amitriptyline.

The death of this injured worker is industrial"
 
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