Connecticut school district on lockdown after shooting report at a Newtown elemen #10

[Xavier]

Reading stories about the security guard who left his gun in the bathroom at school, and about the number of "accidental" shootings at gun shows the other day, etc., I wonder...

If we have "good guys" with guns in schools, aren't we more apt to have accidental shootings? And which is then more likely, having an accidental shooting or having a mass gunman/school shooter situation in which the "good guys" actually win (unlike Columbine where the armed security failed)?

A good post TENN LYN, but hey, it ain't a perfect world we live in

Bad stuff happens, even to those with great intentions

 

[Xavier]

Not at all unlikely. An armed school employee could have shot AL as he swept his gun across the room. The teachers were NOT lined up...they were not still and neither was AL.

Thanks CHERIE-----First off folks, we're talking about arming teachers, yes teachers, and then they have to be ready to fire at a moment's notice?

For any of us to speculate on how successful any teacher would've been to shoot Lanza is way too hard to guess

Arming someone in a school I think can really help

<modsnip>

 

[MyBelle]

JENNY --- I don't think school admins would bring in sustitute teachers to oversee a class if the sub was totally clueless about the subject material

My point is, maybe some on this thread perception of retired LE officers is not the reality.

Maybe they are very knowledgable of the school subjects

And since if they are interested in enrolling in a substitute teaching program, enough to get certified, then I would feel they'd invest the effort to know more about their areas of interest, ie, science, math, etc

By the time Lanza made it to a classroom, he had already slaughtered two administrators. Why do you think an occassional sub who is armed would have made a difference or would make a difference in another school shooting?

An armed person would still have to be at exactly the same entry point at the school at exactly the same time to make a difference and that is nearly an impossible feat.

An officer was on premises at Columbine and it made no difference.

JMO

 

[jjenny]

Honestly if you are an armed teacher and you see your only chance of protecting your students is to shoot the culprit with a gun holding your students and yourself hostage and who has already shot & killed, I am certain -- just like most parents would -- you would shoot the gun-toting violent culprit. It's more about self-preservation & survival instincts than about mindsets or values.

The idea that a teacher will be able to stop someone armed with an AR15 is, IMO, is living in a fantasy world.
First of all, if teachers carry loaded guns on them at all time, I am pretty sure accidental shootings will go up.
Just the liability to the school will be enormous.
And if the gun is locked up somewhere, what are the chances a teacher will be able to get to it in time?

 

[Elley Mae]

That is why a teacher is a stupid choice.S/he who hesitates is lost.

Do not forget. These weapons shoot six bullets per second.

bbm I am curious to where this info comes from?

I am under the impression the AR15 shots 1 bullet for 1 trigger pull, I could be wrong.

[video=youtube;_wBFfdKvXOc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wBFfdKvXOc[/video]

 

[bourne]

The idea that a teacher will be able to stop someone armed with an AR15 is, IMO, is living in a fantasy world.
First of all, if teachers carry loaded guns on them at all time, I am pretty sure accidental shootings will go up.
Just the liability to the school will be enormous.
And if the gun is locked up somewhere, what are the chances a teacher will be able to get to it in time?

As I've advocated in the past, I think the best armed school guards would be retired police officers -- NOT teachers. I think teachers should focus on educating students on academics. Period. Nothing more, nothing less.

However, I was arguing the point that if teachers are armed, then they would, by survival and protection instinct, shoot to kill a gun-toting mass shooter that has infiltrated the school.

As to your point, unless you're omniscient, you won't know whether the armed teachers could kill the shooter or not. Even amateur shooters could aim and kill, if not by skill, then by luck.

I believe the whole point to having armed guards is not only to possibly shoot and maim/kill a mass shooter, but to provide a secure physical presence at schools that would DETER violence such as shootings to begin with. Prevention and deterrence are key. I'd rather have my children feel safe and protected by armed guards at schools so they can actually LEARN in school, rather than sit in fear, waiting for another raging lunatic shooter off on a rampage. Wouldn't you?

 

[Tennlyn]

As I've advocated in the past, I think the best armed school guards would be retired police officers -- NOT teachers. I think teachers should focus on educating students on academics. Period. Nothing more, nothing less.

However, I was arguing the point that if teachers are armed, then they would, by survival and protection instinct, shoot to kill a gun-toting mass shooter that has infiltrated the school.

As to your point, unless you're omniscient, you won't know whether the armed teachers could kill the shooter or not. Even amateur shooters could aim and kill, if not by skill, then by luck.

I believe the whole point to having armed guards is not only to possibly shoot and maim/kill a mass shooter, but to provide a secure physical presence at schools that would DETER violence such as shootings to begin with. Prevention and deterrence are key. I'd rather have my children feel safe and protected by armed guards at schools so they can actually LEARN in school, rather than sit in fear, waiting for another raging lunatic shooter off on a rampage. Wouldn't you?

You mean retired cops like the one that was just hired by a Michigan school and then proceeded to leave his gun laying in the boys bathroom? :banghead:

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...gan-leaves-gun-in-bathroom-officials-say?lite

 

[bourne]

You mean retired cops like the one that was just hired by a Michigan school and then proceeded to leave his gun laying in the boys bathroom? :banghead:

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...gan-leaves-gun-in-bathroom-officials-say?lite

Just because one absentminded retired cop made a foolish error does not mean every single retired cop will make mistakes. Let's not overgeneralize based on one individual.

Also, wasn't there a news article that stated Adam Lanza abandoned his initial attempt at a shooting spree at a high school (rather than the armless elementary school where he ultimately shot and killed children and staff) when he saw police officers or a police car present there? If that is not deterrence, I don't know what is.

 

[jjenny]

Just because one absentminded retired cop made a foolish error does not mean every single retired cop will make mistakes. Let's not overgeneralize based on one individual.

Just reading about all the accidental shootings that appear to happen daily makes it clear to me that is not just an isolated mistake.
And I don't recall any articles about Adam Lanza abandoning any plans on shooting up a high school.

 

[bourne]

Just reading about all the accidental shootings that appear to happen daily makes it clear to me that is not just an isolated mistake.
And I don't recall any articles about Adam Lanza abandoning any plans on shooting up a high school.

A poster earlier in this same thread posted the article with that info and there were other posters who commented on it.

Where are the links for other retired police officers who made gun errors in schools?

 

[jjenny]

A poster earlier in this same thread posted the article with that info and there were other posters who commented on it.

Where are the links for other retired police officers who made gun errors in schools?

I really can't comment on some article I haven't seen. Who posted it?
There are a lot of things reported that are not credible.
As for not being an isolated incident, I meant a number of people not behaving responsibly with guns.

 

[bourne]

I really can't comment on some article I haven't seen. Who posted it?
There are a lot of things reported that are not credible.
As for not being an isolated incident, I meant a number of people not behaving responsibly with guns.

I'm not going to look it up for you. It's a few pages back on this same thread.

So now you're lumping ALL irresponsible gun users together? Come on, you can't dump everyone in the same category. We're discussing armed retired police officers at schools or armed teachers at schools.

For instance, are you saying because there may be a mishap at a gun show by a gun seller that that is representative of armed police officers who patrol our streets as well?

 

[jjenny]

I'm not going to look it up for you. It's a few pages back on this same thread.

So now you're lumping ALL irresponsible gun users together? Come on, you can't dump everyone in the same category. We're discussing armed retired police officers at schools or armed teachers at schools.

There are cases where police officer accidentally shot himself, or their child got a hold of their gun and shot themselves. Just because someone is a police officer doesn't mean one can assume that no accident is going to take place with their gun.
And since you are the one claiming that this article exists, you really should post a link.

 

[mysterygirl]

Yeah I would take my chance with an armed trained good guy...........

Sort of like the off duty cop who shot a gunman in a Texas theater.

Didn't hear a lot about that in the news...........doesn't fit the anti gun nut narrative.

 

[FragileSugar]

Thanks CHERIE-----First off folks, we're talking about arming teachers, yes teachers, and then they have to be ready to fire at a moment's notice?

For any of us to speculate on how successful any teacher would've been to shoot Lanza is way too hard to guess

Arming someone in a school I think can really help

<modsnip>

As far as AL goes, let's remember that he was not wearing any sort of protective gear. If someone had been armed in the school, they might have had a chance at stopping him. Sadly we'll never know the answer. The fact that Dawn Hochsprung attempted to stop him even though she was unarmed still chokes me up - such bravery...

 

[bourne]

There are cases where police officer accidentally shot himself, or their child got a hold of their gun and shot themselves. Just because someone is a police officer doesn't mean one can assume that no accident is going to take place with their gun.
And since you are the one claiming that this article exists, you really should post a link.

So what are you saying? That we should confiscate the guns from our police officers because a few accidentally shoot themselves or others? Huh? :what:

 

[mysterygirl]

I'm not going to look it up for you. It's a few pages back on this same thread.

So now you're lumping ALL irresponsible gun users together? Come on, you can't dump everyone in the same category. We're discussing armed retired police officers at schools or armed teachers at schools.

For instance, are you saying because there may be a mishap at a gun show by a gun seller that that is representative of armed police officers who patrol our streets as well?

It's strange. Mass murderers don't usually care about gun laws.

 

[mysterygirl]

As far as AL goes, let's remember that he was not wearing any sort of protective gear. If someone had been armed in the school, they might have had a chance at stopping him. Sadly we'll never know the answer. The fact that Dawn Hochsprung attempted to stop him even though she was unarmed still chokes me up - such bravery...

Absolutely.

It's all fun and games until someone starts shooting back.

 

[bourne]

post#613 01-17-2013, 08:37 AM

Newtown families find solace in gun laws passed since tragedy

&#8220;Like Obama said, if it saves one kid&#8217;s life, it&#8217;s worth it.&#8221;

A kid like Chase Kowalski, a Cub Scout and athlete who drew a big crowd in Seaside Heights, N.J., last summer knocking down kewpie dolls with baseballs with the precision of Tom Seaver.

A kid who had to be waked in a closed coffin because the monster had so disfigured him with the bullets fired at close range.
..

Adams, a local contractor, was across the street in the Demitasse Café on the morning of the shootings. &#8220;At first we thought a principal was wounded and someone else was shot in the foot,&#8221; he says. &#8220;Then I left. I returned at 11:30 and learned that there were 20 dead kids. I was stunned. This is a morning I will never forget. Horrifying. But what we all know now is that the shooter went to the high school first. He was seen there. But there was a police car there. So he came to the elementary school. There was no cop car there. So he did what he did.&#8221;

Anyone have any further information on this?? I had not read this anywhere before.

 

[jjenny]

Since I haven't seen this attributed to any LE sources, I fail to see why this person (a local contractor) claims that we all know about AL going to high school first. Sounds like some rumor to me. What we do know is that AL did go to Sandy Hook school when he was a child.