Cords, Knots, and Strangulation Devices

Unreals, I have thought for some time that Burke was involved in JonBenets death. I find your theory about Aspergers quite fascinating. I know someone who has it and his reactions are seldom 'correct' in reaction in comparison to most people in society.

Here is a link that is interesting:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/aspergers-syndrome/DS00551

It goes through what it is, symptoms, treatments, etc. Thank you for posting. This makes SO much sense!!
 
I've never thought that Burke killed JonBenet. A very young boy with no history of rages might hit his sister or push her if she did something to his new game system, but not bash her over the head with such force to crack the skull. Burke must be well adjusted if he got all the way through school and recently graduated as a professional. I don't believe that he molested JonBenet either. He would have also been sexually acting out on other kids, probably both girls and boys, and someone would have mentioned it by now. At age nine he would have known very little about death, but could understand it after it was explained that JonBenet was gone to Heaven. That morning when he wanted to take his new Nintendo with him isn't odd. He would still have magical thinking and may have felt that they couldn't come back to the home to get anything and that it would also be gone. He wouldn't have understood at that time that JonBenet wasn't coming back. Later on, when he said that he needed to get on with his life sounds like what he was told and being advised by adults so that he could try to have a normal childhood. Burke is probably stoic and reserved like John who was said to go privately to sob. Burke has probably had a hard life with all this, but has accomplished a lot. Just graduating college starting a career and now suspicion is on him again. I just hope that he can remember if other kids might have been sexually acting out towards JonBenet or the behavior of any adults who were around the home or left in charge of the kids. Someone who wasn't in their real circle of friends so that the little friends wouldn't have known. Someone who could bribe JonBenet about Santa Claus or threaten her not to tell during that year before her death when she started having infections, and became especially clingy towards Patsy that December, just before the "secret Santa visit AFTER Christmas". That might be where the answer to possible sexual abuse and murder lies. If JonBenet really was being sexually molested over a period of time then the murder is related to that and they wanted her dead and made sure that she was not going to live to tell.
 
I've never thought that Burke killed JonBenet. A very young boy with no history of rages might hit his sister or push her if she did something to his new game system, but not bash her over the head with such force to crack the skull. Burke must be well adjusted if he got all the way through school and recently graduated as a professional. I don't believe that he molested JonBenet either. He would have also been sexually acting out on other kids, probably both girls and boys, and someone would have mentioned it by now. At age nine he would have known very little about death, but could understand it after it was explained that JonBenet was gone to Heaven. That morning when he wanted to take his new Nintendo with him isn't odd. He would still have magical thinking and may have felt that they couldn't come back to the home to get anything and that it would also be gone. He wouldn't have understood at that time that JonBenet wasn't coming back. Later on, when he said that he needed to get on with his life sounds like what he was told and being advised by adults so that he could try to have a normal childhood. Burke is probably stoic and reserved like John who was said to go privately to sob. Burke has probably had a hard life with all this, but has accomplished a lot. Just graduating college starting a career and now suspicion is on him again. I just hope that he can remember if other kids might have been sexually acting out towards JonBenet or the behavior of any adults who were around the home or left in charge of the kids. Someone who wasn't in their real circle of friends so that the little friends wouldn't have known. Someone who could bribe JonBenet about Santa Claus or threaten her not to tell during that year before her death when she started having infections, and became especially clingy towards Patsy that December, just before the "secret Santa visit AFTER Christmas". That might be where the answer to possible sexual abuse and murder lies. If JonBenet really was being sexually molested over a period of time then the murder is related to that and they wanted her dead and made sure that she was not going to live to tell.

txsvicki,
Sure, lets compliment Burke on his achievements despite losing his mother and sister.

I agree with much of what you say, given Burkes age at the time, casting him as a predator seems to exagerate the case.

Yet he did know what occurred that night. If he snacked pineapple with JonBenet as he sipped his tea from the glass? If JonBenet was wearing her pink pajamas or her barbie nightgown? All after watching JonBenet walk , wide awake, into the house from the car. Then there is 911 call, is that his voice on the phone, was he aware what there was to be found, why did he fake sleeping?

Lots of questions very few answers!



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I agree UKGuy. Always too many questions and never enough satisfactory answers in this entire case.

Now my take, i don't think Burke is a predator, but by his reactions, I could see him having Aspergers. He wasn't upset, scared, angry or answering questions as most 9 year olds would. He was calm, excited to play his game and disappointed their trip was cancelled. No emotion, except disappointment. John states they had already told him that JonBenet was dead, before he was shuffled away, yet no tears, clinging to his parents, no What if this murderer tried to 'get me too'.

Agatha was posting her ideas of the R's and possible undiagnosed mental illness and it certainly seems like a possibility in Burkes case. I have said this many times. While Patsy was crying and telling people to 'keep your babies safe', he was showing no fear. No anger. That is not IMHO normal behavior for a 9 year old whose sister was just killed, taken from bed near him, the night before.

The person I know with Aspergers, went through college, was in the air force, has children and functions, but everyone states how weird he is, how his jealousy is unfounded and how he doesn't seem to make appropriate comments about situations or In conversing. He wasn't diagnosed until he was in his 50's.
 
I also know someone with Asberger's. VERY successful student- in PHD studies for Neuroscience. BUT- no friends. Ever.

As far as BR's reaction the morning of his sister's murder- kids love their Nintendos, especially ones they just received for Christmas the day before. BUT- his sister was GONE. (at that point, presumed kidnapped) I mean- come ON. I think there would be SOME display of anxiety, sadness, etc. despite being enthralled by his new Nintendo.
Some of here DO have kids that love their video games, and boys especially do. But I don't think BR's behavior that morning was normal unless you could say that most other kids who had siblings murdered had reactions where there was disinterest in the dead sibling and enthusiasm for the Nintendo and that this was a common reaction. In reality, it is MOST abnormal.
NO excuse for BR's behavior that morning and in the days following. NONE. Except maybe Asberger's.
He wasn't 3 or 4. He was nearly 10. This was his SISTER.
 
This is a good article about children's reactions to death.
http://www.hospicenet.org/html/talking.html

"To a child, avoidance can be a message - “If Mummy and Daddy can’t talk about it, it really must be bad, so I better not talk about it either.”

"A child may show little immediate grief, and we may think she is unaffected by the loss."
 
I should qualify my earlier post by saying this doesn't prove Burkes guilt, but it does enhance the possibility in my mind, if this is in fact the truth. Dee Dee, thank you as after working I see I could have worded things differently. You are always very well spoken, er, or written.
 
http://www.dsf.health.state.pa.us/health/lib/health/familyhealth/grief_of_children_after_loss.pdf
"Young children often do not know how to verbalize or express their feelings when a
sibling or playmate dies. They may hold back these emotions or reactions because they
find them too overwhelming
or because they don’t really understand the finality of death.
As a result, some children appear unaffected by the loss and may show their reactions by
acting out their feelings in negative ways in their play or other activities. They may even
act out the events surrounding the death. However, it is VERY important to remember
that children DO GRIEVE, often very deeply, regardless of their ability or inability to
express the emotions they are feeling. Experts also say that children at different ages
have differing capacities to understand death, but most agree that before the ages of 9 to
10, children do not usually understand that death is permanent. Adults need to realize
this and tailor their explanations accordingly."
 
Still, his reactions were abnormal and suggest a detachment problem. He was just a few weeks shy of his 10th birthday. He adjusted VERY well to being an only child, having "moved on" (his words) only days after his sister's death. It was a "never look back" kind of thing. For all of them.
 
otg,

Your theory is thought provoking- thanks for sharing it.

I've grown to believe that the most probable explanation is that Burke, somehow, someway, caused the death of JonBenet. In reality, this is a very complex and confusing case, with no truly logical solution. The ransom note alone proves the "crime" was staged, and that there were never any kidnappers. The behavior of the parents-especially Patsy-was bizarre and instantly led investigators to suspect them.

Nothing in the record indicates that Patsy was anything other than a doting mother, who cherished her little daughter. Nothing indicates that John was anything other than a typical powerful businessman, who was probably distant and perhaps unaffectionate with his children, but was not sexually abusing JBR. Of course, there has to be some explanation for all those doctor visits, usually centered around JBR's vaginal area, as well as the statements by Cyril Wecht and others that there was evidence of chronic sexual abuse. Could Burke have had a long, recurring "problem" in this area? Was he part jealous, part attracted to his beautiful little sister, who clearly was the "star" of this family?

I think the answers to what happened that night lie in a few tantalyzing tidbits in this case. The first one is- what were the details of Burke "accidentally" injuring JBR with a golf club, previous to the murder? Was this a huge red flag, ignored by indulgent parents who were in denial about a potentially explosive sibling rivalry? The second one is- under what possible scenario did both the terrible head injury, and the strangulation, occur? Like the kidnapping/pedophile combination, these two simply don't go together. If she was strangled-accidentally or otherwise-why was she hit so savagely over the head afterwards? Can we imagine any parent doing that to their child? On the other hand, if she was hit on the head first-accidentally or otherwise-why bother to tie a rope around her neck afterwards? Again, can we really picture even an eccentric woman like Patsy thinking of such a thing, let alone actually doing it? The third is- the mystery of the oversized underpants. This is so bizarre that I find it almost impossible to fit it into any scenario. Still, Patsy clearly was evasive about this issue, and there is no logical reason for JBR to have been wearing them.

Burke's reaction to his sister's death-at least what little is publicly known about it-is perhaps even more incomprehensible than Patsy's or John's. He displayed no curiosity, let alone sadness or any emotion at all, as he was led out of the house (again, an act which makes sense on the parents part) and his answers when questioned later were alarming. As I recall, he seemed more interested in the video game he had than in his sister's murder, and said something like "I'm moving on." There have been intimations that Burke had some kind of perhaps autistic/aspergers syndrome, but in reality we know very little about him. It's a real shame that he apparently refused the recent requests to be questioned by police about the case. Like his parents, he seems intent on not providing answers, which of course only arouses more suspicion on the part of internet posters like us.

Well, I've rambled too long. I do think that otg has offered up a reasonable scenario. Not saying I buy it, but unless John or Burke ever really talk, that's probably the best any of us can do.

Unreals,

I agree with you that there is nothing in the past of any one of the Ramseys to suggest that any one of them would have done anything to deliberately harm JonBenet -- even the putter incident with Burke (which I believe to be an accident). While some people might question some of the things the Ramsey parents did in the way that they chose to raise her, I believe many of us (myself included) are sometimes too quick to judge others before looking at what others might think of how I or they choose to raise our own. When it’s us, “It’s no one else’s business.”

We will never know exactly what the dynamics of the family were that might have caused this to happen. All we can do is speculate. But when we do, it sounds like to anyone else that we’re being judgmental, whereas all we are doing is trying to figure out what happened.

The “tantalizing tidbits” you refer to are not (IMO) that hard to figure out. The only thing difficult in doing it is that you have to put yourself in circumstances that are foreign to you. The really difficult thing to do would be in proving any of it. It goes without saying that suspicion is not proof of guilt. But first look at what evidence you know about that is most likely true and determine what it tells you happened. Then consider the possibilities of other things that may be unknown to you, or things you think you know that may be wrong. Then imagine yourself in the same circumstance as the person who caused it (IDI or RDI -- doesn’t matter), and think with what you have available, what you would do. If you are right, the perplexing things about this become understandable.

For instance, you mention the oversized underpants, so consider the possibilities around that. By the best information we have (although some still want to question it), the Bloomies that JB was wearing after her death were too large to be routinely worn by her. Clearly, Patsy was evasive and (IMO) less than forthright about them when she was questioned. Why would an intruder come in (as JMK had claimed) and bring them along to put on her after he killed her? And what are the chances that he would just happen to have the same brand, same size, same pattern, same day of the week, as a package in the home that Patsy just happened to have bought while she was in the only store that sold them, and was located 1800 miles away? Oh, yeah, and she bought them for someone else who lived in a different state, but the BPD couldn’t find the rest of the package that she said she put in JB’s panty drawer when she (or was it JB?) decided to keep them, and which had the same missing day of the week that was coincidentally found on her daughter’s dead body. Oh, yeah, and then she found them years later in another home, in another city, in another state. (Sorry... I got carried away.) The point is... What seems more likely to be the case? Then, if that scenario is correct, does it fit with every thing else you know, and does it explain something that didn’t make sense before?

If, according to statistics, eleven out of twelve cases where a child is killed in the home, it is done by someone else living in the home, and the police don’t consider one of those persons, they would be operating in denial of probability. It doesn’t mean it can’t or doesn’t happen that it is someone from outside, but they have to consider them as prime suspects until they can rule them out. In the case of the Ramseys, they could not be ruled out (that is of course until ML came along -- but that is another story).

This is of course all just my opinion, but it is that.
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Still, his reactions were abnormal and suggest a detachment problem. He was just a few weeks shy of his 10th birthday. He adjusted VERY well to being an only child, having "moved on" (his words) only days after his sister's death. It was a "never look back" kind of thing. For all of them.
Could you please give the link for this, thanks!
 
I understand that children love their video games- I have children myself, and know all too well how addictive they are. However, it begs credulity, I think, to imagine a nearly 10 year old displaying that kind of lack of curiosity or emotion about the brutal, sudden death of his little sister. Kind of ruins that Christmas spirit for everyone, don't you think?

There are many ingredients to this case, that have combined to make it so perplexing. The obvious preferential treatment the wealthy parents received, from law enforcement and the justice system at large, as well as the mainstream media. The inexplicable behavior of the parents- from not even noticing the deadline for an incoming phone call, according to the ransom note, to John evidently planning to go ahead as scheduled to Atlanta on the same day his daughter was found dead, to Patsy being evasive about things as seemingly innocuous as the oversized underwear and her cold, detached manner of referencing JonBenet ("that child," etc.) In this regard, perhaps Burke's behavior is reflective of his parents, but I still find it odd. I also think his reluctance to talk to the authorities is suspect and follows the pattern his parents set, when they refused to cooperate with the authorities from the very beginning.

I used to think Patsy must have been responsible for JonBenet's death, probably in a bit of anger, as postulated by Steve Thomas. While it's obvious that she and her husband orchestrated the staging and coverup, and she wrote the ridiculous ransom note, I simply can't accept that either of them would have intentionally killed their daughter, and I have a hard time now envisioning the bedwetting thing or violent wiping somehow resulting in a massive head fracture or strangulation. However, the ransom note and coverup prove that the Ramseys were involved somehow. So, since they weren't covering up for any intruder, who else would they be covering up for? If either parent caused the child's death-no matter how-do we really think the other one would have become involved in such an elaborate effort to hide the truth from the authorities? The only thing that would compel them to do such a thing, in my view, would be to protect their other child, who was the third person in the house that night.

I acknowledge that it might have been irrational for the parents to think Burke would automatically be taken from them, but they certainly might not have readily known he was too young to be charged with anything. And, as has been suggested, the whole "image" thing cannot be underestimated here. People in their prominent position are usually extremely conscious of how others, especially those in their social class, view them. Patsy certainly seemed to be this kind of person. As such, they would have been mortified to not only lose both their children in one fell swoop, but also to be branded publicly as the parents who raised a child capable of committing such a horrific act. Their friends clearly meant a lot to them, and the whole invented "kidnapping" scenario, with a dash of pedophilia thrown in for good measure, served to prevent them being socially ostracized. It also, more importantly, allowed them to keep their remaining child at home.
 
Still, his reactions were abnormal and suggest a detachment problem. He was just a few weeks shy of his 10th birthday. He adjusted VERY well to being an only child, having "moved on" (his words) only days after his sister's death. It was a "never look back" kind of thing. For all of them.

It sounds to me like BR was getting grief counseling.
http://www.adhd.com.au/grief.htm

Mourning
Task 1 Accepting the reality of the loss.
Task 2 To work through the pain of grief.
Task 3 To adjust to an environment in which the deceased is missing
Task 3 To emotionally relocate the deceased and move on with life.
Reference:Worden, J. W. (1991). Grief Counselling and grief therapy: A handbook for the mental health practitioner (2nd ed.). London: Springer.
 
Could you please give the link for this, thanks!

I don't save links. It's certainly on here somewhere, but I found it by googling it. If anyone has it, feel free to post it.
 
MurriFlower,
There is nothing inconsistent in the interviewers remarks. Mr Levin is stating he has a belief, but not any arbitrary belief such as alien abduction or the power inherent in pyramids. Mr Levin is stating his belief is based on the state of the art scientific testing, so it is not a subjective belief, it is objective and testable.

LOL! Great comment about the aliens and the pyramids!
 
LOL! Great comment about the aliens and the pyramids!

I actually believe in that stuff. Particularly the aliens, having had a Close Encounter of the Third Kind myself. (My husband thinks they actually take me once in a while and leave a clone in my place).
 
It sounds to me like BR was getting grief counseling.
http://www.adhd.com.au/grief.htm

Mourning
Task 1 Accepting the reality of the loss.
Task 2 To work through the pain of grief.
Task 3 To adjust to an environment in which the deceased is missing
Task 3 To emotionally relocate the deceased and move on with life.
Reference:Worden, J. W. (1991). Grief Counselling and grief therapy: A handbook for the mental health practitioner (2nd ed.). London: Springer.

Whoever that counselor is, needs to teach ALL counselors in the world, how to help children deal with their loss and grief. This counselor managed to get Burke through all of these steps in just a VERY short time! Truly gifted!

Or there was something else that allowed him to work through things so quickly.
 
I agree that Burke was detached. He knows his sister is missing and yet does not protest when he is told he is going to the Whites. Nope, he walks out the door with his Nintendo. No "Dad I'm scared, I don't want to leave you!". No "Mommy please let me stay with you!".
 
My son has aspergers. He's 15 now, but has been different for a very long, long time. Very difficult condition for a child to have. Its very hard for him to show any kind of emotion, except for love. He is very affectionate and always initates hugs and I love you's. He has no friends. He never has. He had rather be in his room, by himself, play video games or researching statistics on the computer. He loves to learn and is extremely smart. But he cant associate with other kids. And, as another poster kind of put it, I guess they think he is "weird".
Did Burke have many friends, or do we know? And not aquaintance friends, I mean best friends. Friends that would want to hang out with him everyday?
I know when our Dashchund, whom we all loved very much--including my son, died about 5 years ago, he didnt cry around us at all. A few years later, he admitted to crying at night in his bed, and so no one would hear him. I am in no way comparing a boy losing his sister to losing his dog, but I am just saying that those with AS deal with things differently, as they do with just about everything in life.
 
I actually believe in that stuff. Particularly the aliens, having had a Close Encounter of the Third Kind myself. (My husband thinks they actually take me once in a while and leave a clone in my place).

DeeDee249,
You must suggest to your husband that he prompt your clone to alien abduct John Ramsey for an out of body experience!

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