CT- Annie Le, missing from Yale, thread #2

[panthera]

Why are the eight being protected? I want to hear what they have to say. Dont they want to help find her? Who is muzzling them?

Either they were suppose to meet as a team or not. Bennet said that AL was part of a 8 person team and she was noticed missing immediately.

I haven't seen anyone making impassioned pleas for her safe return. MOO

 

[TonyGatto]

Its being reported that the bloody clothes that were found in the building are not Annie Le's

http://www.wtnh.com/dpp/news/new_ha..._reports_bloody_clothes_not_le_s_200909131726

As often occurs in the media...the headline does not match the story.

They are not saying that the colthes are "not Le's". They are simply saying that the clothes are not the clothes she was seen wearing that day.

 

[Emma Peel]

Sadly, I think the excess steam from the autoclave tells us something horrible. The fact they are searching the waste facility makes me think her body, after she was dead, was hidden as medical waste.

Our bodies are 62% water. A person who weights 90 pounds would be about 56 pounds of water. This is almost 7 gallons of water.

If a dead body was put in an autoclave, hidden in a biomedical waste bag, that would generate 7 extra gallons of water all turned into steam during the autoclave run - that is A LOT of extra steam coming out from inside the autoclave when the door (which is like a valve) was opened - much, much, much more than normal.

An autoclave run can take anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour, which in my mind would narrow down the of her death from between 10-12.

If this is true it again makes me feel like this horrible story is the result of a premeditated plan by someone involved in research - someone who knew Annie and someone who know how medical waste is treated.

OH, I'm sorry - I'd missed this before. Thank you Koozya, this is pretty critical info.

Can I ask for a little autoclave lesson?

You can't autoclave clothing, right?
But, there would be access in such labs to small incinerators?

If the alarm went off, and the building cleared because of it, Would responders go check that autoclave in particular and know which autoclave caused the alarm? Or would it be ignored? What's the cool down time after a steam event? Would there be any identifiable waste of interest left after the process? Would there be a record of who turned on the autoclave? Who would empty the autoclave - the person who started the autoclave? or clean-up staff? And what waste would be left, and where would it go next? And do only researchers know how to use autoclaves? Can't other staff know/learn how?

Thanks a bunch!

 

[panthera]

You'd think they'd say something like "the blood is being tested for DNA " but it is all so vague. Guess we can only hope.
There must be some reason why they are keeping it all so hush-hush.

They'd also be able to tell if the blood was human or animal by now. Determining if it's Annie's might take longer unless there's a known sample or her family is there. MOO

 

[Concerned Citizen]

I haven't seen anyone making impassioned pleas for her safe return. MOO

I have wondered about that too. If I put myself in her family's position, I am not sure I would want to go on camera either. Maybe they are being counseled to keep quiet,, or maybe they are being pressured to keep quiet.

 

[Labrat]

One thing (among others) I am not clear on: Annie worked with 7 other people. It sounds like she went to Sterling Hall when she reported to work in the a.m., so would that have been like "home base" for her and her colleagues ? She left her purse, cell phone, etc., there, and went to Amistad Hall to work in a lab spot she had reserved at 10 a.m.

Seems as if someone would have seen her at Sterling Hall (if that was "home base" for all 7 of her co-workers) and yet the reports say she was never seen at work that day by her co-workers. ??

Hope this isn't off-base or already dealt with.

I am curious about this too. Maybe she was the first one in, dropped of her purse and headed over to the other building? Research labs tend to be casual about time- maybe the others came in after ten and missed her.

 

[babycat]

I haven't seen anyone making impassioned pleas for her safe return. MOO

Good point. I hadn't even thought of this...

 

[STEADFAST]

I get my email on my phone. I would imagine someone like this gets their email on their phone also.

Luckily, they can find out where his phone was all day if they want.
I just can't see such a universally recognizable person (By "universally," I mean in the universe of Yale Medical School.) being able to pull anything off in the middle of the day at the Amistad Building. He'd be recognized walking there, people would be trying to talk to him about stuff, people would be all "Why is Dr. Schlessinger going into Annie's lab?"
I really think we're suspicious of Schlessinger and Bennett because we don't know of anyone else in particular to investigate at this time.

 

[yanceyb]

I saw on the news that Annie had written a small blurb in the paper about if a person has street smarts they should stay safe..and that all campuses have some crime. I wonder if somebody was showing her that she was wrong? I also don't understand her leaving her phone, even if she left her purse. Usually a person will keep their phone w/them for alerts and such.

 

[LaLaw2000]

Actually if he's involved, we've got motive. If Annie was in this guys crosshairs and threatened to report him.....
A professor who went on a killing spree in GA. this summer has the same type of background of harrasment among other things. He was a socopathic, narcissistic bully who couldn't stand not having control. That finally led him to gun down a bunch of people.

BBM:

SuziQ, what you stated makes sense. What if he was harrassing her and she either made a complaint against him or told someone she was going to? What if he has been warned by Yale 'powers that be' - one more complaint and he is out of there?

FWIW, after what I have read about professor J.S., he doesn't deserve a job at Yale or any university/school where he comes in contact with females he can harrass.

........This J.S. is a disgusting creep, IMO, no matter how intelligent he may be through eduacation.

JMO

 

[KivaSupporter]

Its being reported that the bloody clothes that were found in the building are not Annie Le's

http://www.wtnh.com/dpp/news/new_ha..._reports_bloody_clothes_not_le_s_200909131726

I read it the same way as you when I first saw it.

But, it says: "Bloody clothes found in a Yale building are not the ones worn by missing grad student Annie Le the day she vanished, according to published reports Sunday." (The ones that can be seen in the camera shot). If she were working in a lab, she would have been wearing a lab coat.

It is possible the bloody item was her lab coat.

 

[belimom]

I had a rather crazy thought last night which I sort of shrugged off - but one of the last posts said they weren't sure if the blood on the clothes was human or animal.

It seems unlikely, but what if....

(This is all speculation.) Assume Annie had been working with the same animals (mice) for an extended period - or perhaps multiple generations of the same "family" of mice. Assume she has found something important.

Tues morning she goes to the animal facility and finds her mice gone. Perhaps one dead (killed) mouse remains, maybe along with a ransom demand for the return of the others.

Annie might not run off because of the wedding, but would she take off if she found her research animals gone, and all the work she has done for the last year or more totally down the tubes? Especially if she suspected who was responsible and was trying to get them back.

There were suggestions that robbery or kidnapping might have been the motive - might it have been the mice that were stolen/kidnapped? If they were taken, might Yale pay to get them back? Would be much easier to smuggle mice out of the building than a body - and the "small amount of blood" could be mouse blood.

A mouse-napping might explain the attitude of the FBI agent during the briefing yesterday.

Unfortunately, I doubt if this is what happened - I fear it's something far more serious - but....

I am curious about this too. Maybe she was the first one in, dropped of her purse and headed over to the other building? Research labs tend to be casual about time- maybe the others came in after ten and missed her.

WHAT IF... (and it's a big "if")... Le rushed over to the lab with some data regarding her mice. Isn't her dissertation on t-cells? Well, Sutent affects t-cells in some way:

From: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/144550.php

Sutent has both anti-angiogenesis and anti-tumour effects. It acts as an anti-angiogenesis agent, disrupting tumour blood supply by targeting vascular endothelial growth factors (VEGF) and platelet-derived growth factors (PDGF), but it also targets c-Kit and Flt-3 whose role is less well understood. Delivering the EAU's joint oncology and urology state-of-the-art lecture on biological agents in RCC, Susanne Osanto, Professor of Clinical Oncology, at Leiden University, The Netherlands, suggested that Sutent's other attributes may include an ability to boost the body's own cancer-fighting resources by influencing certain T lymphocytes: "What's very interesting is the fact that we know Sutent is probably also a drug that modulates immunity; there are data that indicate it modulates anti-tumour immunity by reversing tumour-induced immune suppression via regulatory T cells often found in the kidney" she explained. "This could be one of the markers we are going to use in future to select patients."

So what if Le found something about t-cells reacting to Sutent, which would then really cause problems for alot of people. Maybe Le wasn't studying it directly but noticed something odd in her own research? Just a wild guess here... JMHO.

 

[scandi]

Schlessinger may have sexual proclivities, but has he ever been implicated in a violent crime? Rape? Kidnapping?

I think it's a good tree to bark up, but there are a lot of lascivious men out there that never act out their desires or fantasies with strong-arm tactics. They get turned down, stew about it for a bit, and eventually move on. This woman who filed suit...did she accuse him of physical impropriety in any way? And, I'm honestly curious, how often do mature men escalate from pervs to murderers?

I'm really curious as to the psychology of it all. I DO think it was someone she knew and absolutely someone associated with the school. He also would tend to fit the profile of my initial gut feeling, which is someone who coveted her, secretly or not, and got agitated as the wedding approached. That said, there could be a dozen men in that building to which that applies. I guess I'd look first at those with histories of violence or sex crimes.

I don't know how many of you watch CSI, but there was a season four episode called Butterflied (super dark, creepy Grissom/Sara episode) that is really making me think. It doesn't all fit, but the potential dynamics of a Schlessinger (or other professor) involvement would be pretty close. Older renowned doctor covets young protege (in this case it was a nurse, but I digress) and he killed her because he couldn't have her. He was obsessed with her and he was nothing to her, and brought down his whole career and reputation. Kind of a benign description, I know, but the writer did an amazing job of really speaking to the psychological drivers and motives that can turn these master/protege relationships bad.

ITA with you, which leads me to the thought it would have been an accidental kill.

I do remember the episode of the new Law & Order with Jeff ? and it turned out the Coroner was the lecherous man who in his lust killed the girl accidentally. In fact he was the Coroner who was working on the girl's case!

 

[panthera]

I have wondered about that too. If I put myself in her family's position, I am not sure I would want to go on camera either. Maybe they are being counseled to keep quiet,, or maybe they are being pressured to keep quiet.

(bolding mine)

I'd like to know which it is too. MOO

 

[Harmony 2]

NEW ENGLAND: Trash plant searched in Annie Le investigation; clothing update

video at link

http://www.necn.com/Boston/New-England/2009/09/13/Trash-plant-searched-in-Annie/1252878880.html

 

[Concerned Citizen]

The campus police, New Haven police, and the state police might be in over their heads, but can the FBI really be so clueless? Don't you think they know pretty much what has happened and are just stalling for time?

 

[panthera]

I saw on the news that Annie had written a small blurb in the paper about if a person has street smarts they should stay safe..and that all campuses have some crime. I wonder if somebody was showing her that she was wrong? I also don't understand her leaving her phone, even if she left her purse. Usually a person will keep their phone w/them for alerts and such.

Welcome aboard! :seeya: The lab may have been an area where she couldn't use the phone, but I'd think she'd still carry it with her and turn it "off" if necessary. I can't see leaving it behind if she was afraid since it was about 3 blocks from her office to the lab building. MOO

 

[TonyGatto]

BBM:

SuziQ, what you stated makes sense. What if he was harrassing her and she either made a complaint against him or told someone she was going to? What if he has been warned by Yale 'powers that be' - one more complaint and he is out of there?

FWIW, after what I have read about professor J.S., he doesn't deserve a job at Yale or any university/school where he comes in contact with females he can harrass.

........This J.S. is a disgusting creep, IMO, no matter how intelligent he may be through eduacation.

JMO

Thanks for hanging in on this...

He is a guy with tremendous power. The domain case may seem insignificant but IT WAS AN UNPRECEDENTED decision in his favor. Someone took the domain name and he was able get it back in an arbitration. THIS IS UNHEARD OF. I'm sure he threw money at it...just like the sexual lawsuit. He fought in the 1967 and 1973 wars in Israel. THE AMOUNT OF INORMATION ABOUT HIM THAT HAS BEEN EXPUNGED FROM THE INTERNET IS AMAZING.

 

[Emma Peel]

Why are the eight being protected? I want to hear what they have to say. Dont they want to help find her? Who is muzzling them?

Either they were suppose to meet as a team or not. Bennet said that AL was part of a 8 person team and she was noticed missing immediately.

We'd all like to hear them, and I hope LE does - but, we won't. Maybe at trial.

Sometimes you have to watch what they do, and not rely on what they say.

I find it interesting that Annie's parents would travel to New Haven today. I think that means they were already in NY on Tuesday for the wedding.

If LE told me my daughter did not exit the building, as far as they could tell by all evidence and surveillance, I would want to get to New Haven and to that building too, and stay there until they found my daughter.

 

[nursebeeme]

It's been many years since I've operated an autoclave, but I think they can't be opened until the cycle finishes. It would be an inefficient way to trigger the alarm, though, when you could just throw a lit match into a waste basket.
I would think it's more likely the autoclave does this all the time, the alarm goes off, and everyone rolls their eyes and keeps working.

They could, but it might be risky- there's usually someone who forgot to sign up lurking about, or other staff members bringing in supplies, etc. Since I don't know that particular facility I can't speculate on the traffic flow there. I do think if I am correct in my speculation that it was more impulse than planned.

sorry if this thought has already been posted... .I have about ten more pages until I am caught up on this thread...

So it would have to have been someone that knew that opening the door would cause this reaction.. someone who regularly runs the autoclave, etc.. do you know if there would be techs that do this or do the students and faculty run their own batch of stuff thru the autoclave (generally speaking)