CT CT - Barbara Hamburg, 48, Madison, 3 Mar 2010

[Manwel]

I agree it's a very unusual case. I've never seen one that had so many potential POI with so many potential motives. I really hope the adult children understand that their lives as adults doesn't have to be full of chaos; they can chose a different path, and it sounds as if they are.

Amateur opinion and speculation

That was 100% my takeaway about AH. She was seeking security and comfort and seems to have found a lot of tranquility and ease in a different city/country where she's not followed by her past there.

As for CB, I was surprised to learn AH went to live with her. I would have thought her grandmother would have invited her in since BH had just recently kicked CB out of her own home. CB can't have had a great place to live given her fluctuating circumstances. It seems at a certain point she moved to Florida.

AH's dynamic with grandmother and family was not thoroughly explored in the documentary even though AH did go to visit everyone in the family at the grandmother's house eventually. And I remember one of the early episodes, someone in that part of the family, whether it was BH's mom or sister, said something like "AH is so different now." They made some offhand comment that suggested there was a history of the family treating her poorly. I tend to wonder if other members of the family agreed with CB or if CB tried to sway them and it wasn't in the series.

It's so wild that BH helped raise CB's child as his guardian, and then later on CB had to finish out raising AH as her guardian. Did CB volunteer for that role? Did she want to play AH's guardian even though she is accusing her of murder in the series? Or was there something written somewhere that said BH wanted her children to go CB in the event of tragedy? Financially, it's a strange choice all around. I don't know enough about custody matters in these situations where you have a minor and multiple family members with the means to take someone in. But IMO it's odd the person with seemingly the fewest means to care for someone was selected.

 

[Stephen2016]

I agree it's a very unusual case. I've never seen one that had so many potential POI with so many potential motives. ......
Amateur opinion and speculation

I know it ... It seems almost any one of them or anybody for that matter could of done it. Seems everyone you can think of has a motive. My theory I think there were two people involved. Hope one day soon we find out.

 

[root661]

I know it ... It seems almost any one of them or anybody for that matter could of done it. Seems everyone you can think of has a motive. My theory I think there were two people involved. Hope one day soon we find out.

I agree it was likely 2 people. I suspect, no proof, it was 2 women related to the Tables investigation who went there to spook her or find out if she was cooperating with the police (like she did in 2004 with her husband's case) and it spiraled out of hand.

 

[Stephen2016]

I agree it was likely 2 people. I suspect, no proof, it was 2 women related to the Tables investigation who went there to spook her or find out if she was cooperating with the police (like she did in 2004 with her husband's case) and it spiraled out of hand.

Why would they or someone move and hide the body ? It wasn't hidden so that it would never be found , so what was the purpose ?

 

[thaddeusjames80]

Why would they or someone move and hide the body ? It wasn't hidden so that it would never be found , so what was the purpose ?

I don't believe the body was hidden. More so covered up, along with the blood to obstruct the view from the golf course. So the killer would have more time to get away and plot their next move. Or whatever it was they were doing. I don't think it was covered in a way they thought the body wouldn't be found. I also myself, don't believe it was covered in remorse. Although that it quite common when the killer is close to the victim. Just in my opinion. I don't believe that's the case here

 

[root661]

I don't believe the body was hidden. More so covered up, along with the blood to obstruct the view from the golf course. So the killer would have more time to get away and plot their next move. Or whatever it was they were doing. I don't think it was covered in a way they thought the body wouldn't be found. I also myself, don't believe it was covered in remorse. Although that it quite common when the killer is close to the victim. Just in my opinion. I don't believe that's the case here

I agree with you. I don't believe it was remorse either. I think it had to do with time for a get away and POSSIBLY they knew she had kids in school and didn't want them to see it when they drove up initially.

 

[Viper757]

Question - do we know how Ali normally got to school? Was there a bus, did Barbara normally drive her, did she walk?

 

[Viper757]

If Ali & Barbara had a coffee on the way to school why would she have another straightaway at home ? Why is Conway eliminated completely ?

Conway, IMHO, was not in good enough shape to break an arm or rib, or stab, drag the body, lift the pallet, chase Barbara, etc. If Barbara was trying to get away from Conway, she would've.

 

[root661]

Conway, IMHO, was not in good enough shape to break an arm or rib, or stab, drag the body, lift the pallet, chase Barbara, etc. If Barbara was trying to get away from Conway, she would've.

I agree 110%. I also think, when Madison discusses what he received from the police file, that we will find her cell phone records were checked and she wasn't in the vicinity at the time of the murder. I got the impression from Madison's discussion with the police that they were very aware of Conway so I believe we will find out that she was well vetted by them.

 

[Pharytale]

Why would they or someone move and hide the body ? It wasn't hidden so that it would never be found , so what was the purpose ?

This is my biggest issue too. I would think the killer is taking a huge risk moving all this stuff around in the yard to begin with. From placing the wooden thing over the blood, dragging the body to the side of the house, and then covering up the body. Why not just killer her and run? This person must have known the house well and viewpoints of the yard and driveway from the golf course. A hitman wouldn't have made it look like a crime of passion if the hitman was hired by the ex husband. That's the last thing the ex husband wants to do is make it look like he could have done it. The ex husband already shows he has a very deceitful mindset and was already dealing with a lot of illegal activity. I go off of previous behaviors. He was dishonest and also took money from his own kids. What was he dealing with? He owed her money and a lot of it. She knew a lot of information and called and that is where people started to investigate him. That had to make him pissed. He kept saying it's not like him and he's not that type of person which in a way he is telling the truth because he didn't kill her, the hitman he hired did. He has the most to lose. He was already shady to begin with. He already shows the behaviors of someone sketchy. This guy is smart. He is an innovator. He was in other countries doing who knows. It all points back to him because he was the one that owed her the most money. If he can scam all these banks and move around money like he did, he can arrange a murder. He doesn't have a conscious. He's so afraid to talk to Madison because he knows he could get caught. If he had nothing to do with the murder, then what is he so afraid of? Why isn't it his passion to find the person responsible especially seeing his son suffer like this? If it's not him, what isn't he helping and trying to clear himself so Madison can move forward? He's guilty by being absent.

 

[Pharytale]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet or not but I noticed there is a discrepancy in Ali and Conway's story.

Ali: "her keys were in the door but the door was locked. I go inside, we're screaming her name, we're calling out for her"
Conway: (providing a walk-through of the crime scene) She points - "her purse was laying right there and her keys were there" (pointing to where the keys were laying on the ground near the purse).
Conway: "Ali was walking in front of me and says there's mom's purse, there's mom's keys"
Conway: "So I picked up the purse and I picked up the keys"

* So my issue is were the keys in the door like Ali was saying or were the keys on the ground like Conway reenacted the scene?

I slowed down the part where it describes her wounds.

- laceration that has a triangle shape
- 1/2" 'S' shaped stab wound (left lower jaw)
- (I couldn't make it out as well but I think it said) wound with inverted V shape (right lower jaw)

Didn't know if anyone knew what kind of weapons would make these marks?

There was a lot of trauma to her head/face/neck and heart area. They talked about they thought it could be a hammer. There are also stab wounds so did the person use both? That's so confusing to me...or are there two people? One stabbing and one using the hammer?


Also they show the blueprint and layout of the house. The pallet that was used to cover the blood in the yard came from the (looking at the house) right side of the house near the garage. Her body was moved to the left side of the house (looking at the house). So this person had known about the pallet and the chair coverings that seemed to be on the opposite side of where her body ended up. The person could have looked around the house but it's just something that stood out to me.

 

[sunshineray]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet or not but I noticed there is a discrepancy in Ali and Conway's story.

Ali: "her keys were in the door but the door was locked. I go inside, we're screaming her name, we're calling out for her"
Conway: (providing a walk-through of the crime scene) She points - "her purse was laying right there and her keys were there" (pointing to where the keys were laying on the ground near the purse).
Conway: "Ali was walking in front of me and says there's mom's purse, there's mom's keys"
Conway: "So I picked up the purse and I picked up the keys"

* So my issue is were the keys in the door like Ali was saying or were the keys on the ground like Conway reenacted the scene?

I slowed down the part where it describes her wounds.

- laceration that has a triangle shape
- 1/2" 'S' shaped stab wound (left lower jaw)
- (I couldn't make it out as well but I think it said) wound with inverted V shape (right lower jaw)

Didn't know if anyone knew what kind of weapons would make these marks?

There was a lot of trauma to her head/face/neck and heart area. They talked about they thought it could be a hammer. There are also stab wounds so did the person use both? That's so confusing to me...or are there two people? One stabbing and one using the hammer?


Also they show the blueprint and layout of the house. The pallet that was used to cover the blood in the yard came from the (looking at the house) right side of the house near the garage. Her body was moved to the left side of the house (looking at the house). So this person had known about the pallet and the chair coverings that seemed to be on the opposite side of where her body ended up. The person could have looked around the house but it's just something that stood out to me.

I think that heavy cast iron looking lawn statue was the cause of some wounds/marks. I think she probably was attacked right along side it and fell right into it.

 

[Pharytale]

Couple more things after seeing the full documentary:

1.There is newspaper article that shows that the palate used was from the side of the house. There is also a ladder in the photo and was wondering if the crime team used the ladder to get on the roof or was the ladder there and part of the crime scene?

2. No one can figure out how the time was switched or how Barbara thought she had court at 2pm instead of 930am. I don't know the timeline when Conway was kicked out of the house but could Conway (if still living at the house moving her stuff out/in transition of moving) have said that they called the house and said the court hearing was changed? Conway knew the time had changed so it makes me wonder. Plus the documentary continues to show more and more how much Conway was involved. She had her ashes, all her documents about the husband's fraud, and at one point when Madison was talking to her outside the shed (I think in Tampa) she said she wanted to be supportive and why she was helping her. OR Conway impersonated/disguised her voice and called since she knew a lot of the people her sister was dealing with at the court house (called from a pay phone which is really hard to find in 2010)?

3. Conway had the purse (says during the documentary - "they didn't even finger print it"). Interesting that she was the one who picked it up when Ali and her got to the house. It's like she wanted to have her finger prints all over it and Ali seeing she had it so if they did finger print it then it would look like it was from when she picked it up when they got to the house that morning. Even after Ali said don't touch anything it's a crime scene Conway says what are you talking about it's not a crime scene I don't see any blood etc and picks up the purse and picks up the keys. She tried to make it out like Ali was overreacting but I feel she wanted to have an excuse to pick up the purse and keys.

4. The letter about if anything ever happens to me (Barbara) that someone will send all of his information to INTERPOL. I think that someone was Conway because she had all her documents. Yet she died and nothing was sent to INTERPOL as we know of?

5. In the 911 call Conway says "somebody covered her with all the cushions that were around back". I know Conway used to live there but it's interesting that she stated exactly where the cushions were located.

This is what they stated about Barbara in their notes when finding her:

Pajama bottoms
A fleece shirt
Another shirt
Pants
Dirt on left knee of pajama bottoms

 

[SuspishAF81]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet or not but I noticed there is a discrepancy in Ali and Conway's story.

Ali: "her keys were in the door but the door was locked. I go inside, we're screaming her name, we're calling out for her"
Conway: (providing a walk-through of the crime scene) She points - "her purse was laying right there and her keys were there" (pointing to where the keys were laying on the ground near the purse).
Conway: "Ali was walking in front of me and says there's mom's purse, there's mom's keys"
Conway: "So I picked up the purse and I picked up the keys"

* So my issue is were the keys in the door like Ali was saying or were the keys on the ground like Conway reenacted the scene?

I slowed down the part where it describes her wounds.

- laceration that has a triangle shape
- 1/2" 'S' shaped stab wound (left lower jaw)
- (I couldn't make it out as well but I think it said) wound with inverted V shape (right lower jaw)

Didn't know if anyone knew what kind of weapons would make these marks?

There was a lot of trauma to her head/face/neck and heart area. They talked about they thought it could be a hammer. There are also stab wounds so did the person use both? That's so confusing to me...or are there two people? One stabbing and one using the hammer?


Also they show the blueprint and layout of the house. The pallet that was used to cover the blood in the yard came from the (looking at the house) right side of the house near the garage. Her body was moved to the left side of the house (looking at the house). So this person had known about the pallet and the chair coverings that seemed to be on the opposite side of where her body ended up. The person could have looked around the house but it's just something that stood out to me.

I noticed that discrepancy in their stories as well. People think that Conway wouldn't be physically capable of this, but she could have been one of two people involved, or at the least, she knows things she won't admit.

I think it's also a possibility that one person couldn't kill her quickly enough by stabbing her so someone finished it with a hammer or some other blunt object.

 

[Tiff23fr]

Finally had a chance to watch this. It left me with so many more questions than answers. I am hopeful between the interviews in creating the documentary and the 1600 pages received as a result of the FOI request they can connect some dots that were missing in the past. I kind of got the impression at the end, that there was information that wasn’t expected and may not have even been touched on in the documentary.

Some random questions/thoughts:

Does this mean it was actually a knife rather than a hammer? (While I recall CB mentioning the hammer I also thought she stated something along the lines of she couldn’t use a knife)

New information was just released from police about the investigation.
Police are now saying that Hamburg was stabbed.
Fugitive Files: Police still searching for person who brutally killed Madison woman

Or were both a knife and possibly a hammer used:
Staff at the chief medical examiner's office said Thursday afternoon that Hamburg died from multiple blunt and sharp force injuries, and confirmed her death as a homicide.

MADISON MURDER: Cops mum on possible suspects

It looks like Barbara’s attorney provided an alibi for JH. It is still so curious she thought court was at 2:
According to court records and Barbara Hamburg's attorney, Richard W. Callahan of Hamden, court proceedings were scheduled for 9:30 a.m. Wednesday in New Haven family court. Callahan said he was there, as was Jeffrey Hamburg of West Hartford, and his attorney, Hugh Keefe.

MADISON MURDER: Cops mum on possible suspects


I wonder why cover the blood with the pallet, and how many pillows from the other side of the house were covering her body. This makes me wonder how many trips to the other side of the house a lone individual would have made to get these materials, as compared to fewer trips after just conducting a violent murder if two individuals were involved.

Another random last minute thought:
If the blood and body were covered, it seems to me this was an attempt to keep anyone who may arrive from immediately noticing it was a crime scene until they got closer to the house. Could it have been anticipated that had the daughter not come home from school earlier someone else would have came to the home first? Who might have drove out to the house to check up on Barbara mid-day for not showing up to court that morning? Maybe no-one.. just random thinking.

 

[Tiff23fr]

One other thing. I was thinking about the officer stating one of the top suspects/POI’s phone had been off for 24 hrs. Do you think this was just part of LE trying to rattle MH personally as they seemed to do with the cigarette butt reference at the scene? (JMO- these two things stated by LE also have my wheels a turning...)

Phone:
MH was on a lunch break during film school on March 3, 2010, when the call came.

“I was at Chik-fil-A with a bunch of friends, and my phone was broken that day. One of my best friends reached out to another friend, who was with me, to say my sister really needed to talk to me.”

'Murder on Middle Beach' director uncovers his family's dark legacies

Cigarette:
I don’t know if they age the cigarette butt, but my guess is they do.

H said that he hadn't seen his mom for several weeks before her death since he was away at college

Barbara Beach Hamburg's son Madison says he was inspired to make 'Murder on Middle Beach' after hitting 'rock bottom'

 

[dotr]

Just popping by with a new link i came across..rbbm.

Updated about 2 hours ago
Police appeal order to turn over documents in 2010 cold case - Alaska Highway News
''MADISON, Conn. (AP) — Police in a wealthy Connecticut town where the 2010 killing of Barbara Hamburg remains unsolved are fighting a judge's order to turn over investigative files to two documentary filmmakers, including Hamburg's son.

Madison police earlier this month appealed the order to the state Appellate Court, in a case that could have wide implications for access to police cold case files in the state, the Hartford Courant reported Saturday.''

 

[sunshineray]

I was just re-watching the HBO series Murder on Middle Beach. I came back hear to see if anything new was being discussed. On this page poster Pharytale had posed a question...

- (I couldn't make it out as well but I think it said) wound with inverted V shape (right lower jaw)

Didn't know if anyone knew what kind of weapons would make these marks?

I wonder if a weapon could have been made out of this, if anyone she knew was into woodworking/carpentry?

v chisel - Google Search

Just a thought.

I just can't understand why after 11 years why the Madison Police are fighting so hard to overturn the FOI ruling and not saying it's for the reasons of setting a bad precedent but that it could be a disservice to the victim's family?

They really don't want the documentary filmmakers to have all the files. The case is about as jumbled and cold as it can be and it's her son who's asking for the complete set of files. Why would that be disservice to the family? MH is family.

 

[DuckDuckLasers]

I just can't understand why after 11 years why the Madison Police are fighting so hard to overturn the FOI ruling and not saying it's for the reasons of setting a bad precedent but that it could be a disservice to the victim's family?

They really don't want the documentary filmmakers to have all the files. The case is about as jumbled and cold as it can be and it's her son who's asking for the complete set of files. Why would that be disservice to the family? MH is family.

TLDR protecting "the integrity of the case" often translates to "protecting the department from scrutiny and potential blowback." I have to assume they know there are issues with how this investigation was handled and would rather everyone trust the (broken, inadequate) process.

I feel like I've seen this in lots of cases over the years in various departments across the country. Maybe it's my cynical nature rearing its ugly head, but usually when the police are pushing back agains transparency and working against families like this I have to assume their actual motive is to protect themselves. The first thing that comes to mind is how forensics were handled in Barbara's case. For example, DNA was allegedly collected, and the police have claimed it doesn't match Jefferey, so he's cleared. We also hear them claim it was "of male Hamburg lineage" when it suits them; they're legally allowed to lie, remember, so this was likely their super clever tactic to get Madison to say or do something that gave them cause to go after him. Then, ultimately, we hear a detective admit that the collection kits were expired and the DNA is "crap."

There are countless amazing, curious, talented, dedicated, and passionate detectives working on cases out there every day. Some of them continue this work unpaid even after retiring, because it's their calling in life and they believe families deserve answers. Not everyone will see or hear something and think, "I should follow that thread." The job is just a job, or maybe most of their cases are cut and dry situations that don't require significant investigation. I don't know the track records of the detectives in the case, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they're doing their best, but their best might not be up to snuff, and perhaps they understand that scrutiny -- especially high profile scrutiny from someone with connections to HBO -- won't be in their best interests.

 

[sunshineray]

TLDR protecting "the integrity of the case" often translates to "protecting the department from scrutiny and potential blowback." I have to assume they know there are issues with how this investigation was handled and would rather everyone trust the (broken, inadequate) process.

I feel like I've seen this in lots of cases over the years in various departments across the country. Maybe it's my cynical nature rearing its ugly head, but usually when the police are pushing back agains transparency and working against families like this I have to assume their actual motive is to protect themselves. The first thing that comes to mind is how forensics were handled in Barbara's case. For example, DNA was allegedly collected, and the police have claimed it doesn't match Jefferey, so he's cleared. We also hear them claim it was "of male Hamburg lineage" when it suits them; they're legally allowed to lie, remember, so this was likely their super clever tactic to get Madison to say or do something that gave them cause to go after him. Then, ultimately, we hear a detective admit that the collection kits were expired and the DNA is "crap."

There are countless amazing, curious, talented, dedicated, and passionate detectives working on cases out there every day. Some of them continue this work unpaid even after retiring, because it's their calling in life and they believe families deserve answers. Not everyone will see or hear something and think, "I should follow that thread." The job is just a job, or maybe most of their cases are cut and dry situations that don't require significant investigation. I don't know the track records of the detectives in the case, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they're doing their best, but their best might not be up to snuff, and perhaps they understand that scrutiny -- especially high profile scrutiny from someone with connections to HBO -- won't be in their best interests.

Considering the DNA, I believe MH's DNA (told by police to MH during questioning) was found on a cigarette butt found somewhere at the property/scene. Then the documentary said BH also had male Hamburg DNA under her fingernails.

MH was at college at the time of his Mom's murder, correct? And her husband was at the courthouse waiting on MH to arrive for a judgement in the alimony/child support case. Conway mentions how the police messed up the crime scene DNA. Could it have just been a mistake as to the DNA's gender? I guess that's possible.

There's so much not talked about in that documentary. One big thing for me is CB saying AH started texting her from school around 9am while AH says she didn't text her Mom or CB until after 11am.

So many other unanswered questions that I doubt, unless the rest of the files are released, the truth will ever come out.