CT CT - Janice Pockett, 7, Tolland, 26 July 1973

New Posts

I am grateful for the national attention tonight's show will bring to my sister's case. If nothing else, I hope the show may jog someone's memory, resulting in some new leads....
 
the show is addicting, dark minds. i have watched a few episodes already one of them was about a killer in nh who was killing women one of them was preganant and she survived and was the only alive to see his face this was back in the 70s or 80s when his sketch came out a guy said his mom said that looks like your father years later the guy came forward and said i think my dad was the killer of those girls. then some women was killed by her bf in florida and she lived in nh and he did at the time of the murders when they showed this women the picture of the florida man she had no reaction when they showed her the pic of the guys father the reaction she had was freaky


i hope some new leads come in with the janices case when this show is aired tonight
 
sister, the journey has been such a long one. I hope it leads to something for you!
 
I spent quite a bit of time watching the show this morning. I have a few questions about Janice's disappearance that might already be in the thread here:

1.) Was the butterfly still under the rock when Janice's mom and sister went looking for her?

2.) Was there some kind of public vehicle access road near where she went missing? Because from the show it looked like it was just a bike path which means her abductor was on foot. Being on foot had to have limited him as to where he brought her after he kidnapped her.

As for the Molly Bish tie in-Molly was so much older than the other girls...was her letter to Lisa's mom ever published?

The other aspect that confused me was all of the representations of the brothers covered in blood, which implies a crime very different from the one committed against Holly.

But I wonder if Holly and Molly's bodies were discovered because the search for the two was so big and so fast on the heels of their disappearance?

sister-how quickly were law enforcement called? That has to factor in on where Janice is.
 
for those of you who didnt see the show, the host indicated that the POI in the disappearances of Janice, Lisa, Holly, and Molly was in the 18 yrs of age to 25 years of age when Lisa was taken. The show indicated that an abandoned trailer of the suspect yielded a number of hair ornaments that would appear to belong to young girls/teens depending on the time each was "current." The suspect is in jail because he murdered his girlfriend, but his brother and possible accomplice is free. The ex wife and the daughter of the suspect were interviewed and they believe that they can provide a key to the crimes-all of the girls, with the exception of Janice IIRC, look exactly like the ex wife in various stages of growing up. Petite, blue eyed blondes, but the facial shape apparently matches ex wife remarkably.
 
So if you believe that Janice is connected all of the way to Molly Bish's disappearance, here is the suspect I believe:

http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/19...nvolving-molly-bish-murder-person-of-interest

Rodney Stanger. Stanger was born in Warren, MA and is currently in prison in Florida. The location of the trailer was in Florida as well. Stanger was a hunter who hunted in the areas around Sturbrige and Brimfield.

Let's see if he has a brother.
 
Here is a link to a story that discusses the artifacts found in the trailer.

http://www.telegram.com/article/20120717/NEWS/107179923/0/column&TEMPLATE=MOBILE

There were a number of violent videos that were included in the material located. I hope there isnt too much cross contamination from the hair ornaments and the sister of Stanger's girlfriend. There seems to be an implication in the above article that the girlfriend might have had some knowledge of some kind of crime occurring.
 
I watched it, and to be honest- was extremely disappointed in the show. But I sure hope it brings in some leads.

The bike path I believe was close to a rural roadway- a couple of yards of grass and dirt between bike path and road. So it's possible her abductor was in a vehicle, imvho. I wonder if there were not two people present in a vehicle, with one on the passenger side that had easier access to getting out and then back in.
 
http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/20142417/2012/11/19/new-details-emerge-in-hunt-for-holly-piirainen

OK- Randy Stanger. POI in Holly Piirainen's murder. He lived in between Janice and Holly P. There is another suspect for Holly's murder-David Pouliot. There is apparently forensic evidence that points to him.

Stanger was living in a tent in the woods where Holly was found. Umm wow. I guess if he is a viable suspect, then he is either just that gutsy or just that clouded in his mental acuity.
 
Oriah said:
I watched it, and to be honest- was extremely disappointed in the show. But I sure hope it brings in some leads.

The bike path I believe was close to a rural roadway- a couple of yards of grass and dirt between bike bath and road. So it's possible her abductor was in a vehicle, imvho. I wonder if there were not two people present in a vehicle, with one on the passenger side that had easier access to getting out and then back in.
Click to expand...

Are they really all connected? It seems likely that HollyP and Molly B are related to me. If only because of the brothers.

I was disappointed in the show as well, Oriah. Too much energy, imo, was focused on "Raven" and what it was like to be a serial killer. I am thrilled for Janice's case, however. Publicity is good stuff for sure.
 
I watched the show. I can definitely see a connection between Holly and Molly with the POI(s). I was trying to find a connection with the POI(s) and the areas where Janice and Lisa went missing. I can find some reference to the Bridgeport/Fairfield area in 1976 for the brother.

I am not sure if I agree that there is a connection between all 4 of these girls but, IMO, if the POI is responsible for Molly and Holly then there is probably more victims out there.
 
believe09 said:
Are they really all connected? It seems likely that HollyP and Molly B are related to me. If only because of the brothers.

I was disappointed in the show as well, Oriah. Too much energy, imo, was focused on "Raven" and what it was like to be a serial killer. I am thrilled for Janice's case, however. Publicity is good stuff for sure.
Click to expand...

Thrilled for Janice's case also. Was just disappointed in inaccurate info portrayed.

There seems to be a lot of stretches if you kwim re: the serial aspect. Personally, I wonder if we're not looking at several different serial situations that all merged or possibly crossed over at some point.

SAR perspective aways screams at me to look not at the obvious- don't look at the obvious, that's already been seen. Look up, look down, look right and left at 10 feet, basic training. The details are what matter. What details were missed? If we pick apart all of these specific cases what can be found in the details?

They found several victims in short order. The others are not far between that route imvho. Whether or not they are recoverable at this point? Idk. But if recoverable in any way, there is ID that can be made.
 
I agree Oriah. So where would Janice be if we eliminate the Stangers?

I guess I really want to know about the butterfly now. I would love to know if she even made it that far.
 
The butterfly has always stuck with me as well. It doesn't seem possible that she made it back to the location of the butterfly, given the evidence. So someone picked her up a lot closer to home? I have always thought that was indicative of someone who witnessed the initial butterfly situation, followed her back home, waited, and picked her up on her way back to the butterfly. Which would put her possible location a lot closer to home.
 
believe09 said:
I spent quite a bit of time watching the show this morning. I have a few questions about Janice's disappearance that might already be in the thread here:

1.) Was the butterfly still under the rock when Janice's mom and sister went looking for her?

2.) Was there some kind of public vehicle access road near where she went missing? Because from the show it looked like it was just a bike path which means her abductor was on foot. Being on foot had to have limited him as to where he brought her after he kidnapped her.

As for the Molly Bish tie in-Molly was so much older than the other girls...was her letter to Lisa's mom ever published?

The other aspect that confused me was all of the representations of the brothers covered in blood, which implies a crime very different from the one committed against Holly.

But I wonder if Holly and Molly's bodies were discovered because the search for the two was so big and so fast on the heels of their disappearance?

sister-how quickly were law enforcement called? That has to factor in on where Janice is.
Click to expand...

These are good questions. I'd really like to know about the butterfly too.

I was also intrigued by how similar Stanger and Pouliet looked - especially if you are trying to judge by going off the sketch from the Bish case. The sketch could be either of them IMHO.

I'm also not sure that all four cases are related but it was significant to me that the girls all seemed to have been taken in or taken into wooded areas during the abductions. But is that only a factor because the areas in which they lived tended to have alot of woods or forrest around or is that actually a useful clue to the abductor's methods? Does anyone know what the general area was like in all of the cases at the time? It wasn't really clear at all in the Dark Minds episode and I would think it important to know that information in order to establish that this was part of an MO.

In some of the cases it seemed to me to be possibly more likely that someone living very close to the girls committed the crimes because then they would have been able to surveil the girls movements and lie in wait for them. (The Bish killer IMHO definitely did watch her and wait for an opportunity to grab her.) In other words was the area more rural and off the beaten path making it less likely that they were abducted by someone just looking to grab a child at random? (That said however I can name several cases where that's exactly what did happen - a total stranger driving back roads and looking for an opportunity.)

I also think linking the cases might be doing a disservice in the sense that the details from one case might lead you to wrongly think about scenarios and suspects in another case. For instance - in the Bish case I think it likely that the killer watched her first - possibly for days - to learn her movements so that he could find an opportunity to grab her. I think the guy was a planner. But also quite bold and confident. He grabbed her from a public area where people could be showing up at any minute, in broad daylight in the space of about ten minutes. He possibly even allowed himself to be seen by Molly's mother that morning. Most striking to me is that he didn't try to "get away" with Molly by throwing her into his car. Instead he dragged her up that slope and into the woods and assaulted and killed her right there. To me that is very risky behavior. Remember that people could have been showing up at the lake at any minute and either seen the abduction or even heard what was going on. The killer must have been quite sure of himself. Not a first time killer IMHO.

Conversely in Janice's case there was no evidence that the assault took place at or even near the site of the abduction. Her body has not been found so if she was murdered it also seems likely that it didn't happen on site. So someone had to have taken her away either on foot or by car. I'd have to have more details about the site of the abduction and the general area but from what I have to go on now I think it less likely that roaming stranger saw a random opportunity and grabbed her and took off with her in a car. But I also think it unlikely that the perp surveilled and planned this for any lengthy time in advance. The abduction site plus the habits and movements of Janice don't add up to a possibility for that type of planning IMHO. (Unless we find out that the sisters always walked that path at a specific time of day or always played in that area etc.) To me it seems more likely that someone living in that area - probably in that neighborhood - saw the girls come out of the woods and then saw Janice go back later on her own. I think she was taken on foot to a site (like a home) close to the abduction site that the perp could get to quickly and without being seen - maybe a home backs up onto the wooded area there? So I see Janice's case as being more of an opportunity abduction but done by someone who had someplace private to take her nearby.

So it seems like the perps in those cases are of differing offender types. Unless of course you consider that Janice was an early victim and the offender grew more sophisticated and cunning over time - entirely possible as well.

I think we just don't have enough specific details to link the cases and not really enough details about each case individually either. :(
 
NocturnalLady said:
These are good questions. I'd really like to know about the butterfly too.

I was also intrigued by how similar Stanger and Pouliet looked - especially if you are trying to judge by going off the sketch from the Bish case. The sketch could be either of them IMHO.

I'm also not sure that all four cases are related but it was significant to me that the girls all seemed to have been taken in or taken into wooded areas during the abductions. But is that only a factor because the areas in which they lived tended to have alot of woods or forrest around or is that actually a useful clue to the abductor's methods? Does anyone know what the general area was like in all of the cases at the time? It wasn't really clear at all in the Dark Minds episode and I would think it important to know that information in order to establish that this was part of an MO.

In some of the cases it seemed to me to be possibly more likely that someone living very close to the girls committed the crimes because then they would have been able to surveil the girls movements and lie in wait for them. (The Bish killer IMHO definitely did watch her and wait for an opportunity to grab her.) In other words was the area more rural and off the beaten path making it less likely that they were abducted by someone just looking to grab a child at random? (That said however I can name several cases where that's exactly what did happen - a total stranger driving back roads and looking for an opportunity.)

I also think linking the cases might be doing a disservice in the sense that the details from one case might lead you to wrongly think about scenarios and suspects in another case. For instance - in the Bish case I think it likely that the killer watched her first - possibly for days - to learn her movements so that he could find an opportunity to grab her. I think the guy was a planner. But also quite bold and confident. He grabbed her from a public area where people could be showing up at any minute, in broad daylight in the space of about ten minutes. He possibly even allowed himself to be seen by Molly's mother that morning. Most striking to me is that he didn't try to "get away" with Molly by throwing her into his car. Instead he dragged her up that slope and into the woods and assaulted and killed her right there. To me that is very risky behavior. Remember that people could have been showing up at the lake at any minute and either seen the abduction or even heard what was going on. The killer must have been quite sure of himself. Not a first time killer IMHO.

Conversely in Janice's case there was no evidence that the assault took place at or even near the site of the abduction. Her body has not been found so if she was murdered it also seems likely that it didn't happen on site. So someone had to have taken her away either on foot or by car. I'd have to have more details about the site of the abduction and the general area but from what I have to go on now I think it less likely that roaming stranger saw a random opportunity and grabbed her and took off with her in a car. But I also think it unlikely that the perp surveilled and planned this for any lengthy time in advance. The abduction site plus the habits and movements of Janice don't add up to a possibility for that type of planning IMHO. (Unless we find out that the sisters always walked that path at a specific time of day or always played in that area etc.) To me it seems more likely that someone living in that area - probably in that neighborhood - saw the girls come out of the woods and then saw Janice go back later on her own. I think she was taken on foot to a site (like a home) close to the abduction site that the perp could get to quickly and without being seen - maybe a home backs up onto the wooded area there? So I see Janice's case as being more of an opportunity abduction but done by someone who had someplace private to take her nearby.

So it seems like the perps in those cases are of differing offender types. Unless of course you consider that Janice was an early victim and the offender grew more sophisticated and cunning over time - entirely possible as well.

I think we just don't have enough specific details to link the cases and not really enough details about each case individually either. :(
Click to expand...

I thought about this as well Nocturnal lady. But his later victims, Holly P and Molly Bish, were found. So I would wonder if we are looking at a time factor...you know, the alarm went up so they couldnt be completely hidden, or some different offenders committed the crimes.

I will make no sense whatsoever I am sure by saying Janice's crime feels different to me. I am sure there is a good reason why LE thinks they are all related, so I dont know.

The offender who grabbed Janice had to be watching for a while. Like Oriah posted, maybe even from the moment they put the butterfly under the rock. Maybe he was the source of the butterfly.
 
believe09 said:
I thought about this as well Nocturnal lady. But his later victims, Holly P and Molly Bish, were found. So I would wonder if we are looking at a time factor...you know, the alarm went up so they couldnt be completely hidden, or some different offenders committed the crimes.

I will make no sense whatsoever I am sure by saying Janice's crime feels different to me. I am sure there is a good reason why LE thinks they are all related, so I dont know.

The offender who grabbed Janice had to be watching for a while. Like Oriah posted, maybe even from the moment they put the butterfly under the rock. Maybe he was the source of the butterfly.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that LE actually does think the crimes are related. I think the Dark Minds show was the first time all four of them have been linked. Previously, the only opinion I had seen on the matter was the ex-cop (also interviewed on the Dark Minds show) who had been on the Molly Bish case. He actually found pieces of her swimsuit that LE had previously overlooked (I think this was not mentioned on Dark Minds but on the other show I watched about the Molly & Holly's cases). Anyhow, that cop was the only LE I have ever heard give an opinion & that was that Holly & Molly's cases were related & no mention was made of the other two.

Now they have DNA (or something pretty definitive - they haven't said exactly what) that proves that David Pouliot was at the scene where Holly's body was found. This doesn't rule him out as Molly's killer but I have read alot of articles implying that LE thinks Rodney Stanger is the perp in that case. So already there is a confusion about if the cases are linked and if so who is the main suspect.

I also can't get over the seeming difference between the type of offender in the Bish case and Janice's case. I think both girls were targeted but I think in the Bish case Molly was literally surveilled by the perp who planned how and when to strike - as well as planning on assaulting and killing her virtually on site - her body was found not too far away. In Janice's case I think she was also targeted but in the sense that a neighborhood creep saw her over time and fantasized about her and formed a resolve to "get her if he ever got the chance". I just can't help but think Janice's abductor was closer to home.

Also up thread I think I saw a poster identified as Janice's sister mention something along the lines of thinking it was possible that the perp was a relative of Janice?? Was anything else ever mentioned about this or am I misinterpreting?
 
sister said:
I was only 6 when Janice disappeared; she was 7. I don't remember a whole lot from that day. I do know that we went grocery shopping that day, and I remember my mother was putting away groceries and Janice and I were fighting over our new toothbrushes. Shortly after that Janice left to ride her bike up to the dirt road near our house to retrieve a butterfly she had hidden under a rock a couple of days earlier during a walk we had taken. I think it was the first time my mother ever let her go anywhere by herself. I remember going with my mother to look for Janice and seeing her bike standing up by the side of the road (the fact that it was standing up makes me think that she was probably coaxed off her bike rather than grabbed off it). I remember that I didn't realize how serious the situation was until the next day when I saw my grandfather crying.
I feel like I don't remember a lot about Janice. I wish I could remember her more. I remember we used to fight a lot. And we used to sneak into each others bedrooms at night, just to see if we could get away with it.
I think my parents thought they were protecting me by not talking about Janice a lot, or maybe they just couldn't.
Click to expand...

Just wanted to sort of bump this post since Janice's sister gives the important info that the butterfly had been hidden a few days before. IMHO this makes a lying in wait type crime less likely and a crime of opportunity more likely.

I also want to thank Janice's sister for posting. I can't imagine how hard it is but I hope she knows we all care about what happened to Janice and hope to somehow help bring closure or at least an answer for her family.
 
sister said:
The police believe Janice was taken somewhere. There was such a massive search when she disappeared that if there were any clues nearby they would have been found.
Click to expand...

Does anyone know if this massive search also included house to house searches of the neighborhood that included actually going into the houses, garages and any out buildings?
 
nrob372969 said:
I believe I was molested by a neighbor when I lived in Tolland. Everybody said he was my best friend, a grown man. We used to ride bikes together. I am guessing that Janice disappeared very soon after we moved to Dallas. She and I do have similar facial structure, both had shorter brown hair and were the same age. I remember him driving a heating oil truck, so he would be very familiar with the area and wouldn't cause suspicion. She may have recognized him if he had made oil deliveries to your house. I often wonder if he may have happened upon her and was reminded of me. What do you think? Am I making sense?
Click to expand...

Wonder if the description of this person matches anyone who lived in Janice's neighborhood?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 118 more.
Total: 4,003 (members: 119, guests: 3,884)

Online statistics

Members online
119
Guests online
3,884
Total visitors
4,003
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
594,233
Messages
18,000,720
Members
229,343
Latest member
kuryus
Back
Top