Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #1

[SeriouslySearching]

Thanks ss. I am still fairly new to this and just throw ideas around here and there every so often. I was too shy to start a thread on him.:blushing: But I hope either way excluded or included it is helpful.

Awww, don't be shy! We don't bite much. LOL :blowkiss:

Keep in mind you are more than welcome to start any thread you want!! It is helpful to put it in states tho...so more can be added to the list.

If I didn't properly welcome you: Welcome to WS, Aussie_mum!! I warn you...it is addictive and making new friends reaps large rewards in my book.

 

[aussie_mum]

thanks ss.... I have been around a while, but really only started threads in the jury room.... about stuff I know for sure about lol. I understand the keeping within the states thing, but I didn't want to make a fool of myself lol.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Stop worrying about what other people think! Just go for it! We are all in this thing together here.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I don't mind saying after just reviewing what we already have...I am just blown away by this and I hope that everything the Detectives have to connect the cases is accurate. I want to believe it, but a part of me still says "caution...too good to be true".

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I want to say that no matter if a person ends up with a death besides drowning...they should be included if they fit the other criteria. Men are going missing from the bar scene far too often and even if they are found in different circumstances...we should include them in what we believe are possibly connected...just in case. At this point, we have no other real explanation of how they ended up dead or missing after leaving a bar. It is the connection. Which I don't mind mentioning...we have many women from the same area with the same connection. It is the reason I put their thread here, too. This might not just be a gender thing or a drowning thing...this might be a killing thing.

 

[Blink34]

I want to say that no matter if a person ends up with a death besides drowning...they should be included if they fit the other criteria. Men are going missing from the bar scene far too often and even if they are found in different circumstances...we should include them in what we believe are possibly connected...just in case. At this point, we have no other real explanation of how they ended up dead or missing after leaving a bar. It is the connection. Which I don't mind mentioning...we have many women from the same area with the same connection. It is the reason I put their thread here, too. This might not just be a gender thing or a drowning thing...this might be a killing thing.

I second this and feel it is critical- think inclusion of a case and then work backwords.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Have you taken a look at the women who have been missing or found murdered in the area? If not, I would say everyone should. Women walk out of a bar in Madison...and end up dead, too. Kelly Nolan is one of those. I want so much to find what happened to her. It makes me angry.

 

[Blink34]

I dont know if anyone caught the detectives appearance on GMA this morning, Here's my feedback:

1) I did not learn anything new, but note that the smiley appeared in 5 cases, and the sinsiwa appeared in 1, and was related to another site.
2) The detectives said they are going public because they are out of funds for further investigation, but unless I missed it, did not mention a way for them to get more, which I think was an error. Not suggesting they solicit publicly, but are there grants, can they get "manhours" from LE locally on a per case basis, etc.. I would have liked to see them be more specific on what they need to continue their efforts.. This absolutely needs to be seen through, or it's just another "theory".
3) There are 19 other cases they have not even had a chance to review in relation to this theory, they believe 10-15 could be connected.
4) Odd that they did not comment on the suspected origin of the smiley face, and when asked about their theory about "who or "whom" is involved, they said they were hopeful of a successful prosecution so they would NOT be more specific..
5) I believe there is an error in the entire report in that they are reporting Chris Jenkins case is the only one "classified" as a homicide. Scott Javins, who disappeared on 5/24/2002 found 5 years later on 10/12/07 remains in his car in river, is classified as a homicide but police won't say why.
6) When prrompted to give more info on "who fits the profile"- they stated very high GPA, seperated from friends, and young men in age group. My take on that is that if these men are mostly out of school, what is the relevance? They did not mention the alcohol link which I found unusual.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Let's be clear...the PEOPLE that should expend funds are the local PD and the FBI. They don't have to give people their address to add to the funds. The people who should be working this case...left them behind as closed or even open with no evidence.

I don't have any thought other than this is going against the grain. I am glad they are, but they are going to find many things that come up against them. They know this and they are willing to buck everyone...I am all for them and what they know. Bring it on.

 

[Blink34]

Let's be clear...the PEOPLE that should expend funds are the local PD and the FBI. They don't have to give people their address to add to the funds.

I don't have any thought other than this is going against the grain. I am glad they are, but they are going to find many things that come up against them. They know this and they are willing to buck everyone...I am all for them and what they know. Bring it on.

Agreed, I would seek to have them acknowledge how the GP can go about requesting that from their LE sources- how do we support them getting what they need?? These cases have been linked several times and "died on the vine"- I dont want to see this happen again

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I can tell you exactly how they "died on the vine"...lack of evidence. They did not pursue it like these Detectives did. It is always what we hear..."We cannot establish this or that because of lack of evidence." This statement alone has closed many cases. I believe they bring new evidence.

 

[Blink34]

I can tell you exactly how they "died on the vine"...lack of evidence. They did not pursue it like these Detectives did. It is always what we hear..."We cannot establish this or that because of lack of evidence." This statement alone has closed many cases. I believe they bring new evidence.

I agree, and would add that he philosophy of Start with homicide and exclude as you go is a practice that should be followed by persons investigating MP cases as a standard, it has been my ecperience, that is not the case.

 

[SuziQ]

http://kstp.com/article/stories/S426475.shtml?cat=1

A 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS investigation into the mysterious river deaths of young men around the country has now gone national.

Investigative reporter Kristi Piehl appeared on ABC NEWS’ ‘Good Morning America’ to discuss the case with detectives Kevin Gannon and Anthony Duarte.

Watch Monday morning’s interview in the viewer on the right….

 

[SuziQ]

Christopher Jenkins Timeline-Channel5 Investigation

A series of investigative videos over the past two years. Click on the player on the right of the page:​

FEB. 17, 2006: We reveal that the case is open ​

http://kstp.com/article/stories/s417975.shtml?v=1​

MARCH 29, 2006: Water testing done with fake body ​

http://kstp.com/article/stories/s417976.shtml?v=1​

JULY 31, 2007: County decides not to file charges ​

http://kstp.com/article/stories/s417977.shtml?v=1​

ETA: the last link is missing the video. I have sent an email to the station asking for the vid. ​

 

[eve]

Oh, that's right. The feather in the parking garage! I completely forgot about that. Thanks for the reminder! So that explains the van theory. What is still questionable is the mental torture allegation.

Imho, unless they can provide some sort of credible evidence that said psychological torture was over and above what a kidnap victim experiences, then the torture comment really makes no sense. And, while, the stages an abductee experiences can most certainly be characterized as torturous, such is not technically considered psychological torture. Nor can it be assumed that he was psychologically tortured without some sort of reliable and valid corroborating evidence.

If however they do have compelling evidence that this is the case, then that really raises the bar for this alleged group of killers. For example, physical torture can be carried out by thugs. Those who really know what they're doing can carry out such without leaving visible signs of trauma. Though, a thorough autopsy would still reveal signs of physical torture. Psychological torture on the other hand requires a great deal of sophistication and reasonable knowledge as it pertains to psychology. Which means someone with knowledge in the field would be involved. And, if it's pods, as they claim, then it would need to be several someones with said knowledge.

Whatever the case, it will be most interesting to hear what they come up with.

Ok, I'm catching up after a busy weekend. Glad to have a forum for this, thanks to all!

I think the torture information is being held close to the vest. I think the Jenkins have a source for this info through their PI and the detectives pursuing this case. I think it is more than mere speculation because it has been mentioned with some specificity - mental torture, riding around in a van, etc., although the source has not been revealed. I am beginning to think they have a snitch. I can't see how they would come up with so much theory about these "pods" without an informant.

Eve

 

[SuziQ]

Detectives Chase 'Smiley Face' Murder Mystery


Retired NYC Detectives Spend 11 Years Connecting the Drowning Deaths of 40 Young Men Across the Country


By KRISTI PIEHL
April 28, 2008

http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=4738621&page=1

A link to reader comments:

http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/comments?type=story&id=4738621

I found this comment interesting:

Pertaining to the "Smiley Murder---" It may be the work of an unknown college Fraternal group to get accepted in the fraternal organization, such as "skull". See what colleges the missing kids went to, are these Frats also in those areas? How about the disapearance time, are they at the same time of the year where the frats initiation taks place? Since most the missing were smart and above average, is this Frat or "Gangs" trying to prove that they are smarter? Detectives Kevin Gannon and Anthony Duarte may need to dig deeper in these and other common areas. ZO, Texas

 

[aj1020]

Yay for the forum!! Nice work on getting things organized everyone! I'll be back... need to go catch up!

 

[aj1020]

I find it interesting that one of the commonalities that "fits the profile" for these young men is a high GPA. I mean you could walk into any bar in a college town and see handsome, outgoing, college-age guys that don't necessarily excel in the classroom. The fact that they had high GPAs almost makes me think that they were "followed" in some capacity for a certain amount of time before their deaths - perhaps the killers tracked their activities and picked their targets - choosing men who had above-average success in the classroom.

That said, I don't know why a higher GPA/book smarts would be sought by the killers.

 

[SuziQ]

Did a Serial Killer Group Hit Chicago?


With all the hoopla that surrounded Y2K festivities, you might remember the news story of Brian Welzien. Welzien wandered away from the Ambassador East hotel on New Year's Eve of 1999 and did not return. At the time police speculated that he may have possibly been drunk, fell into Lake Michigan and drowned. That scenario seemed to be correct when Welzien's body was eventually found in March of 2000 along a Gary, Indiana beach. More at link:

http://chicagoist.com/2008/04/26/did_a_serial_ki.php

 

[SuziQ]

Hockeymom, I hope you don't mind me bringing your post over from the victims thread. I thought it was interesting and didn't want anyone to miss it.

Today, 07:35 AM
hockeymom

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Doctor Michael Baden to do 2nd autopsy on Josh Szostak.

http://timesunion.com/AspStories/sto...date=4/28/2008