This really made me pause and sigh. The contrast is so vivid between her world of young, educated, globe-trotting women looking for journalistic challenges, meanwhile the 'quirky' and 'unusual' subject of her next story is gathering his supplies for her visit to his underwater lair , including a saw to cut her up and weights to dispose of her body parts. There's something almost mythic about it.
GUILTY Denmark - Kim Wall, 30, Copenhagen, 10 Aug 2017
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This really made me pause and sigh. The contrast is so vivid between her world of young, educated, globe-trotting women looking for journalistic challenges, meanwhile the 'quirky' and 'unusual' subject of her next story is gathering his supplies for her visit to his underwater lair , including a saw to cut her up and weights to dispose of her body parts. There's something almost mythic about it.
SATA
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Also strong symbolism. That submarine, a phallos symbol and a womb in one.
One thing to note about this case is the very first hours.
Kim Wall's boyfriend alerts the Danish Policy when Kim hasn't returned from the trip in Peter Madsen's submarine. The Police almost immediately engages in a major search for the submarine and even involves a military helicopter and civil boats.
This is VERY strange unless the boyfriend had disturbing things to report to the Police. Under "normal" circumstances it is almost impossible to engage Danish Police in such searches for missing persons before after at least 24 hours as it is quite common that people disappears for a shorter time.
Another thing to note is the fact that Peter Madsen was immediately taken away by the Police after his rescue and very shortly after accused of having killed/murdered Kim Wall. I don't thing that would have happened if the Police did not have more information from the boyfriend than they have revealed so far.
Kim Wall's boyfriend alerts the Danish Policy when Kim hasn't returned from the trip in Peter Madsen's submarine. The Police almost immediately engages in a major search for the submarine and even involves a military helicopter and civil boats.
This is VERY strange unless the boyfriend had disturbing things to report to the Police. Under "normal" circumstances it is almost impossible to engage Danish Police in such searches for missing persons before after at least 24 hours as it is quite common that people disappears for a shorter time.
Another thing to note is the fact that Peter Madsen was immediately taken away by the Police after his rescue and very shortly after accused of having killed/murdered Kim Wall. I don't thing that would have happened if the Police did not have more information from the boyfriend than they have revealed so far.
caravanserai
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This has been on my mind too. But would the police not have been forced to reveal any evidence of this kind at the previous court hearings? Such as (potential) information conveyed by Kim to her boyfriend via text or phone call?
They might have. But the hearings were in camera (no public access) in respect for the family. The rumors are that Kim and Peter had some kind of agreement about SM and that the boyfriend was instructed to call the Police if Kim had not returned by a given time assuming something had gone wrong.
During one of the hearings one of the first questions asked by the prosecutor was whether Peter Madsen fancied "choking sex".
Regarding the killing is it also interesting that the Police so far has refused to comment on the found knife. In my opinion this is because when we know what kind of knife it is we will also know how Kim was decapitated and probably also how she lost her life. Remembering that so far no signs of the killing has been found on the body or the head.
SATA
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Everyone thought that an accident concerning the submarine had happened. That it had sunk and that both Kim Wall and Peter Madsen were in danger of dying on the bottom of the sea without oxygen.
We all thiought that until the subnarine was spotted shortly before Peter Madsen sank it.
The police and coast guard would go search really fast in a case like that. I don´t think that is strange.
About the arrest - that is a bit strange though.
Look at the faces of the police officers - it is as if they know something is up. Even the tone of voice of a reporter is a bit strange - as if he knows too.
Instinct maybe - and his story didn´t make sense from get-go.
If Kim Wall´s boyfriend knew something about PM, then so did Kim Wall. Would she have put herself in that situation if she knew anything?
I don´t think so, people have called her "street smart,"
Edit: she could have texted her boyfriend - didn´t read properly, sry.
I think that information would have been out if she did.
That is what the rumors seem to indicate (Kim's and her boyfriend's prior knowledge to PM's sexual preferences)
With respect to the rescue action I stand corrected.
On a second thought the accusations for being responsible for the death of Kim Wall might also be seen as a protection of PM's legal rights.
Chiatos
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I thought I had read somewhere that a sex appointment of any kind between the two had been ruled out.
SATA
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There must be something incriminating on PM´s phone.
He had to come up with a lame story as to why he threw it in the ocean: that he didn´t want to live anymore and there was no use for it anymore, blah, blah, blah (he is the worst liar in criminal history - really stupid in fact!)
I wonder what it is. HE will never tell!
He had to come up with a lame story as to why he threw it in the ocean: that he didn´t want to live anymore and there was no use for it anymore, blah, blah, blah (he is the worst liar in criminal history - really stupid in fact!)
I wonder what it is. HE will never tell!
I believe those rumours are unfounded. As SATA stated, it was initially a search and rescue operation. The submarine wouldn’t respond to attempts to contact it, but when tracked down by search and rescue, it seemed to be perfectly functional, and PM apparently yelled he was heading back to port. Then, he very obviously appeared to sink it: I think the boaters who rescued him reported his actions as very suspicious. There was no sign of Kim and he was immediately caught in a lie about dropping her off because I think video surveillance of that location had already been searched. If that’s not massively suspicious behaviour, I don’t know what is. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/da...e-as-swedish-journalist-disappears-2017-08-14
SATA
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Peter Madsen as a boy.
The picture is from an article I can´t read (would have to pay), but the headline is: Early years. This is how he became Rocket Madsen.
I would rather want to know how he became Murder Madsen.
What happened to this nerdy, but quite pleasant looking boy to turn him into a vile murderer?
The picture is from an article I can´t read (would have to pay), but the headline is: Early years. This is how he became Rocket Madsen.
I would rather want to know how he became Murder Madsen.
What happened to this nerdy, but quite pleasant looking boy to turn him into a vile murderer?
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Hi everyone, and thank you for all of your insight into this case. I have been following the thread with interest. I think that there are several questions that are left unanswered so far, especially concerning whether or not he planned the deed.
If Madsen had a sexual urge to murder a young woman on his submarine, Kim Wall is probably the worst choice he could make. Firstly, her boyfriend waved her off, so there was no question of where she was when she went missing. If his mission was to kill and dismember someone on the sub, it would have been better to chose someone who had not informed her near and dear about her whereabouts (a tourist for example). Secondly, she was a journalist, so her murder and disappearance would naturally draw international media attention. Thirdly, he did nothing to hide where they were travelling -- there are pictures and even video of the two in the submarine tower. If he was planning to kill her, wouldn't he have tried to make sure that their route was unknown? Fourthly, there is actually no evidence at all to suggest that Madsen had any kind of reason to dislike Wall personally, as it seems they were not acquainted. Having gone through a lot of the articles she wrote, I would also dare to say that Wall was not an investigative journalist, she was interested in the quirky angle, the people on the outskirts of society and feminist issues. She is unlikely to have dug through a paper trail exposing financial issues that would make the rocket project impossible, or technical data to suggest that Madsen's plans for space were somehow unfeasible.
There is however some physical evidence to suggest that he planned it. For example, the witness who stated that he (she?) saw him carry a saw on to the sub before they took off. Also, there were metal pipes (for sinking the body), thick green plastic that the some body parts were wrapped in, an extra overall and a knife. The question here is if he would normally have had all of that material onboard or if it was there for a reason?
What are your thoughts?
If Madsen had a sexual urge to murder a young woman on his submarine, Kim Wall is probably the worst choice he could make. Firstly, her boyfriend waved her off, so there was no question of where she was when she went missing. If his mission was to kill and dismember someone on the sub, it would have been better to chose someone who had not informed her near and dear about her whereabouts (a tourist for example). Secondly, she was a journalist, so her murder and disappearance would naturally draw international media attention. Thirdly, he did nothing to hide where they were travelling -- there are pictures and even video of the two in the submarine tower. If he was planning to kill her, wouldn't he have tried to make sure that their route was unknown? Fourthly, there is actually no evidence at all to suggest that Madsen had any kind of reason to dislike Wall personally, as it seems they were not acquainted. Having gone through a lot of the articles she wrote, I would also dare to say that Wall was not an investigative journalist, she was interested in the quirky angle, the people on the outskirts of society and feminist issues. She is unlikely to have dug through a paper trail exposing financial issues that would make the rocket project impossible, or technical data to suggest that Madsen's plans for space were somehow unfeasible.
There is however some physical evidence to suggest that he planned it. For example, the witness who stated that he (she?) saw him carry a saw on to the sub before they took off. Also, there were metal pipes (for sinking the body), thick green plastic that the some body parts were wrapped in, an extra overall and a knife. The question here is if he would normally have had all of that material onboard or if it was there for a reason?
What are your thoughts?
Apelsin, Thank you for your interesting post.
Considering the evidence that has been presented by the prosecution, along with PM's sexual perverted predilections, IMO, PM qualifies as a psychopath who did pre-meditate KW's murder. Whether it be perpetual lying, theft, or murder, a psychopath's salient trait is to believe s/he is much smarter than everyone: thus, get away with the crime,. PM qualifies in many areas of an "Organized Offender" with the exception "crime is usually committed out of his area of residence or work". Not every murdering psychopath has the convenience of a private submarine in which their victim is totally trapped without any opportunity for escape.
"The organized offender is usually above average in intelligence. He is methodical and cunning. His crime is well thought out and carefully planned. He is likely to own a car, which is in good condition. The crime is usually committed out of his area of residence or work. He is mobile and travels many more miles than the average person. Fantasy and ritual are important to the Organized type personality. He selects a victim, which he considers the "right" type, someone he can control (either through manipulation or strength), usually a stranger. Most of his victims will share some common traits.
He is considered socially adept. He uses his verbal skills to manipulate his victims and gain control over them until he has them within his "comfort zone." He is fully cognizant of the criminality of his act and takes pride in his ability to thwart the police investigation. He is likely to follow news reports of the event and will oftentimes take a "souvenir" from his victim as a reminder, which is sometimes used to relive the event or continue with the fantasy. (The souvenir is referred to as a "trophy" when describing this particular action by the organized offender.)
He is excited by the cruelty of the act and may engage in torturing the victim. Sexual control of the victim plays an important part in this scenario. He avoids leaving evidence behind and usually brings his own weapon. He is aware of police procedures. The body is often removed from the crime scene. He may do this to "taunt" the police or to prevent its discovery by transporting it to a location where it will be well hidden."
Continue reading article: http://www.practicalhomicide.com/articles/lustmurder.htm
Considering the evidence that has been presented by the prosecution, along with PM's sexual perverted predilections, IMO, PM qualifies as a psychopath who did pre-meditate KW's murder. Whether it be perpetual lying, theft, or murder, a psychopath's salient trait is to believe s/he is much smarter than everyone: thus, get away with the crime,. PM qualifies in many areas of an "Organized Offender" with the exception "crime is usually committed out of his area of residence or work". Not every murdering psychopath has the convenience of a private submarine in which their victim is totally trapped without any opportunity for escape.
"The organized offender is usually above average in intelligence. He is methodical and cunning. His crime is well thought out and carefully planned. He is likely to own a car, which is in good condition. The crime is usually committed out of his area of residence or work. He is mobile and travels many more miles than the average person. Fantasy and ritual are important to the Organized type personality. He selects a victim, which he considers the "right" type, someone he can control (either through manipulation or strength), usually a stranger. Most of his victims will share some common traits.
He is considered socially adept. He uses his verbal skills to manipulate his victims and gain control over them until he has them within his "comfort zone." He is fully cognizant of the criminality of his act and takes pride in his ability to thwart the police investigation. He is likely to follow news reports of the event and will oftentimes take a "souvenir" from his victim as a reminder, which is sometimes used to relive the event or continue with the fantasy. (The souvenir is referred to as a "trophy" when describing this particular action by the organized offender.)
He is excited by the cruelty of the act and may engage in torturing the victim. Sexual control of the victim plays an important part in this scenario. He avoids leaving evidence behind and usually brings his own weapon. He is aware of police procedures. The body is often removed from the crime scene. He may do this to "taunt" the police or to prevent its discovery by transporting it to a location where it will be well hidden."
Continue reading article: http://www.practicalhomicide.com/articles/lustmurder.htm
In case anyone missed this insightful article which I previously posted:
https://drmarkgriffiths.wordpress.c...overview-of-erotophonophilia-aka-lust-murder/
https://drmarkgriffiths.wordpress.c...overview-of-erotophonophilia-aka-lust-murder/
SATA
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In short, the case doesn´t make much sense.
I think we all wonder, whether it was planned or that an opportunity presented itself.
I have a feeling the Danish police will uncover that.
Maybe it was even part of his plan to be seen with Kim Wall on the submarine.
He thought his story about setting her ashore during the night would fly.
As Sandstorm points out, psychopaths think they are smarter than other poeple.
We also have to keep in mind the kind of life he had led for decades: Almost entirely on his own terms in his own little wild, wild west world.
He didn´t answer to anyone but a few investors - who really gave him free reign.
The man was out of touch with reality, simply.
It gave me shudders when you mentioned it would be more "convenient" to pick a tourist.
We do have an unsolved case of a female, Japanese tourist, found in the Copenhagen harbour dismembered.
Only problem is, Peter Madsen would have been only 15-16 years old at the time of that killing.
Not IMPOSSIBLE though.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/25/danish-police-probe-possible-link-kim-walls-murder-1986-cold/
Thanks for the insight! I think it's really interesting that psychopaths often commit murders where they work or in environments they are very familiar with, it sheds some new light. I was thinking about Kazuko Toyonaga and I looked into the case previously. The most comprehensive overview of the case that I have seen so far is by a Swedish website dedicated to the murder of Catrine da Costa, who was killed and dismembered in Stockholm in 1984 (unsolved), as it has been speculated that the two cases have the same perpetrator.
It's in Swedish, but I think google translate would help you.
https://dacostarkivet.wordpress.com/2017/08/25/kazuko-toyonaga-1986/
I think that that Madsen may have killed before, there are several murders in Denmark that give me the shudders too, like the killing of Alice Kansiime, a prostitute killed in 1997 who had her hand cut off (I haven't seen any media outlets make the connection). Does anyone know of any archive of Danish cold cases, where I could do some digging? What are the main Danish web forums where crime is being discussed (I read Swedish)?
Also, with his dark web videos, I wonder if there is any potential to find out about Madsen's travels to countries where sex is on sale and women may have been abused or murdered by him.
I still think that it's strange that he would commit a crime where the chances of getting caught are great if it was premeditated.
It's in Swedish, but I think google translate would help you.
https://dacostarkivet.wordpress.com/2017/08/25/kazuko-toyonaga-1986/
I think that that Madsen may have killed before, there are several murders in Denmark that give me the shudders too, like the killing of Alice Kansiime, a prostitute killed in 1997 who had her hand cut off (I haven't seen any media outlets make the connection). Does anyone know of any archive of Danish cold cases, where I could do some digging? What are the main Danish web forums where crime is being discussed (I read Swedish)?
Also, with his dark web videos, I wonder if there is any potential to find out about Madsen's travels to countries where sex is on sale and women may have been abused or murdered by him.
I still think that it's strange that he would commit a crime where the chances of getting caught are great if it was premeditated.
It's possible he hadn't anticipated that she'd have a boyfriend or she''d be photographed leaving the harbour with him. He might have worked his 'perfect plan' out in his mind so thoroughly, thst he was too obsessed with it to give it up, once it was underway.
SATA
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I think he knew his rocket wouldn´t do well compared to the competing (his original) rocket project.
Or he was terrified it wouldn´t.
They were both set to launch shortly after that fateful day - from the same location.
I think that PM was totally off balance because of that and totally irrational.
I think he would even rather be seen as a vile killer than fail in his rocket project.
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Another thing, I read that PM has had visits in jail only by his lawyer and his WIFE.
Can´t help wondering: is she still visiting him???
________________
And a third thing: PM said about his childhood that he knows how children who grew up in concentration camps felt.
What did his father do???
SATA
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Just read an article about Peter Madsen.
It is a good article, but I choose not to post it, because it is "old". It was written in the days after the sinking of the submarine and before we knew what happened other than that.
Two informations I find interesting:
Apparently it was very, very hard for PM to qualify for high school.
High school is nothing special!
PM formed his own company when he was only 15 years old. He used it to purchase larger amounts of building materials for his projects than he could get in ordinary hardware stores.
He would also have been able to tax deduct it and get a discount as a company.
15 years old he was when that Japanese tourist was killed.
If he could pull off forming his own company, he could also have committed murder, couldn´t he?
I find that very interesting.
Oh, and his father, an inn-keeper and carpenter with an interest for war and rockets was called, "decidedly crude and plain out racist."
It is a good article, but I choose not to post it, because it is "old". It was written in the days after the sinking of the submarine and before we knew what happened other than that.
Two informations I find interesting:
Apparently it was very, very hard for PM to qualify for high school.
High school is nothing special!
PM formed his own company when he was only 15 years old. He used it to purchase larger amounts of building materials for his projects than he could get in ordinary hardware stores.
He would also have been able to tax deduct it and get a discount as a company.
15 years old he was when that Japanese tourist was killed.
If he could pull off forming his own company, he could also have committed murder, couldn´t he?
I find that very interesting.
Oh, and his father, an inn-keeper and carpenter with an interest for war and rockets was called, "decidedly crude and plain out racist."
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