Discussion between the verdict and sentencing

[AJ_DS]

Photo of the jeans outside

View attachment 59914

 

[Sherbert]

Nope… sorry… no belt… just your imagination playing tricks on your memory !!… no worries it happens to all of us… think Baba who was beyond sure that he had called OP first

And the jeans look freshly laundered as they are very flat as if they had dried hanging up

View attachment 59912

… totally agree with the mosaic bit

AJ - I can't open your attachment - maybe you're correct, but I have read in several places, including juror13, that there was a thin white belt on the jeans outside:

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/03/17/oscar-pistorius-trial-day-11/

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Photo of the jeans outside

View attachment 59914

I'm getting this message -

vBulletin Message
Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator

 

[AJ_DS]

AJ - I can't open your attachment - maybe you're correct, but I have read in several places, including juror13, that there was a thin white belt on the jeans outside:

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/03/17/oscar-pistorius-trial-day-11/

Don't know what's going on… I can see them both just fine

The reference is Monday 17 March 2014 Session 2 at 19:12

I'll try saving it as Jpg and post it again

 

[mrjitty]

What a great find MS. Frank's room is quite a way from OP's bedroom so he might genuinely not heard the commotion.

Have you ever fired a gun 4 times at 3am?

I mean it is so loud that one uses hearing protection.

I have never fired a weapon inside a house - but the chances of the inhabitants sleeping through it are zero

 

[sleuth-d-]

Apologies… I was pointing to AW2B how information taken on this site is not always exact and can lead to confusion

I had just read your post a few minutes back and we were discussing the timeline and Mike's phone call to security… It just jumped at me that this was the perfect example.

I meant no disrespected to you… God knows I have made many such mistakes.

The bold/red was to point out a very tiny and very specific part of your lengthy post… which was very good and did not hinge at all on that time for Mike's call to security… so I wanted to be sure that the whole post was not interpreted as being incorrect.

The "not pointing any fingers" was specifically written so as not to single you out and avoid such perception of rudeness…

Again apologies… I truly believe if you look at my posts before that one you will see that it was meant to be mean or disrespectful.

bbm
is that a white belt? wink

c/o juror13 blog
http://juror13lw.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/72.png

 

[AJ_DS]

bbm
is that a white belt? wink

c/o juror13 blog
http://juror13lw.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/72.png

:gaah:

Let's not complicate things further… If things do, I'll end up having to apologizes to every single poster

Juror13 is incorrect… her image is very lo-res and with some stretch of the imagination one could possibly see what could possibly be a white very thin belt… but it is not so.

Check out the hi-res photo and you will see that there is no belt

The white part is the inside of the jeans

 

[AW2B]

@ AJ, I wonder if it was windy that night for the jeans to have fallen from the railing, if they were hanging out there. If they were dragged by the dogs to under the toilet window, there would probably be evidence of teeth marks and/or saliva. lol
But as you say, they're probably not important but then again, they could be, it's a little bit of a lot of what OP knows and we will never know. :gaah:

Is this a normal way to dry clothes in SA? Did Reeva usually air dry her clothes? I'm not really asking.. I don't think it was ever presented in court or even discussed . But I would think Nel could have asked those questions..

BTW..here is a link to historical weather info:

http://www.wunderground.com/history...tml?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

 

[Sherbert]

Incidentally, I've just spotted some interesting obervations by 'David Hartopp' towards the bottom of the link I posted - about the red toiletries bag and the cricket bat.

 

[AJ_DS]

Is this a normal way to dry clothes in SA? Did Reeva usually air dry her clothes? I'm not really asking.. I don't think it was ever presented in court or even discussed . But I would think Nel could have asked those questions..

BTW..here is a link to historical weather info:

http://www.wunderground.com/history...tml?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

BiB… OK... I disagree but that's also OK

 

[AJ_DS]

Belt or no belt - that is the question :happydance:

View attachment 59918

Absolutely no belt… you can even see a belt loop that has no belt under it

The whitish bit is the inside of the jeans showing through the waist opening

 

[sleuth-d-]

Belt or no belt - that is the question :happydance:

View attachment 59918

hi res or not high res
[my kingdom for a belt]

 

[mrjitty]

Is this a normal way to dry clothes in SA? Did Reeva usually air dry her clothes? I'm not really asking.. I don't think it was ever presented in court or even discussed . But I would think Nel could have asked those questions..

BTW..here is a link to historical weather info:

http://www.wunderground.com/history...tml?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

As a question of cross examination technique, one would not expect Nel to ask about it unless he has an extra trick up his sleeve

So he questioned heavily about the fans because he had the trump card about the plugs to trip OP up.

I guess with the jeans they had nothing.

 

[Sherbert]

:gaah:

Let's not complicate things further… If things do, I'll end up having to apologizes to every single poster

Juror13 is incorrect… her image is very lo-res and with some stretch of the imagination one could possibly see what could possibly be a white very thin belt… but it is not so.

Check out the hi-res photo and you will see that there is no belt

The white part is the inside of the jeans

I think you may be right and at least you've now got another prime example of how easily misinformation spreads....

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Have you ever fired a gun 4 times at 3am?

I mean it is so loud that one uses hearing protection.

I have never fired a weapon inside a house - but the chances of the inhabitants sleeping through it are zero

Yes, I've fired a rifle, outside of course, and it's loud. But for arguments sake, there are people that can sleep through severe thunderstorms and the like so that is hard to prove.

We would be accusing him of lying, I'm just incensed that he's totally disregarded, he could have at least given his account of the lead up to that night, when Reeva and OP arrived, what food they ate because he would have washed the dishes and cleaned up.

Just a missed opportunity that makes the system look corrupt. jmo

 

[AJ_DS]

Heck we can't even agree what is depicted in a photograph !!!

What's the point of debating anything, really ?

 

[Sherbert]

Yes, I've fired a rifle, outside of course, and it's loud. But for arguments sake, there are people that can sleep through severe thunderstorms and the like so that is hard to prove.

We would be accusing him of lying, I'm just incensed that he's totally disregarded, he could have at least given his account of the lead up to that night, when Reeva and OP arrived, what food they ate because he would have washed the dishes and cleaned up.

Just a missed opportunity that makes the system look corrupt. jmo

I agree - it never ceases to amaze me how some people can sleep through just about anything.

 

[AW2B]

The bottom line is that we have 2 possibilities :

A- OP's version of events is roughly the truth of what happened, or

B- OP's version of events is a fabrication constructed to fit around the evidence.

If one opts for option B… then so many things go out the window (sorry for the pun) :

1- The toilet door was perhaps never locked, the key not even there
2- Reeva did not have her phone with her in the toilet cubicle
3- The fans had absolutely no part to play that night, nor did the LED light, etc…
4- OP's cellphones were not both in the bedroom unplugged on the bedside table
5- Reeva perhaps never went to bed
6- etc…
7- etc…

so yes, Reeva's jeans outside under the bathroom window could be evidence in option B… but the fact remains that the jeans cannot help you disprove option A and prove option B.

Like you said we will never know what really happened.

BBM

I agree that the location of the jeans would not, in and of itself, disprove option A. However, by adding it to the other evidence of fabrication.. it would make it clear that option B outweighs Option A. It would make Option B more believable than Option A. That's my opinion..

 

[Sherbert]

Heck we can't even agree what is depicted in a photograph !!!

What's the point of debating anything, really ?

Lol! I think you've managed to convince me that there was no belt...Incidentally, as there are quite a few posts on digital spy and elsewhere about the non-existent belt, I took a leaf out of Masipa J's book, didn't bother to inspect the photo and blithely assumed it was common cause.

 

[foxbluff]

Was it ever mentioned how/when he woke up. IIRC..the first person to arrive at his house was greeted by Chiziweni..

I don't think it was ever mentioned... we know that he told police he had slept through the whole thing, but it would have been interesting to know what finally woke him up. I'm wondering now if the police asked him that question...