Ebola outbreak - general thread #7

[faw720]

http://twitchy.com/2014/10/17/mood-...porter-recounts-vacation-aboard-ebola-cruise/

There is a television reporter aboard the Carnival Magic & here are his tweets. There are lots of comments so keep on scrolling down. Everyone seems happy.

 

[Treelights]

I would never travel outside of the country without whatever shots I would need or require. I am not a citizen from a country fighting a deadly disease trying to enter a country trying to keep it out. jmo idk I am not an exception.

Jumping off your post...
I was a military dependent/family member.
As per DOD, my shot record was always updated. "I am not a citizen from a country fighting a deadly disease trying to enter a country to keep it out.", to use your quote for myself.
BUT!!!!! Because I lived in Germany during these SPECIFIC times, I am NOT allowed to give blood, because of Mad Cow Disease.
"According to the new DoD restrictions, all personnel -- including active-duty military, civil service employees, and family members -- will be indefinitely banned from donating blood:"

"If they traveled or resided in the United Kingdom for a cumulative total of three months or more at any time from 1980 through the end of 1996.
If they received a blood transfusion in the United Kingdom at any time from 1980 to the present.
If they traveled or resided anywhere in Europe for a cumulative total of six months or more at any time from 1980 through the end of 1996.
If they traveled or resided anywhere in Europe for a cumulative total of five years or more at any time from Jan. 1, 1997, to the present. "

"Humans who've contracted variant CJD seem to have ingested contaminated meat, DoD veterinary officials said."
http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=44789

I ate meat purchased through the commissary, BUT because I also lived on the Germany economy, I ate at restaurants and had barbeques with my German neighbors, etc, so who knows
where that "off post" meat came from that I ate. I also traveled to France, Switzerland, and Austria, and who knows where that meat came from that I ate. I haven't been to the UK.
Sure, it would be nice to donate blood and save a life. On the other hand, because I lived in Germany for many many years, I understand why the DOD and Red Cross do no want me to donate blood.
Am I offended if the Red Cross would ask me if I lived in Germany during the Mad Cow Disease time periods that I was there? NO. It is to protect others and the blood supply.

I had my flu shot the beginning of October in Colorado, the state I reside. Would I be upset if at that time, I would have been asked if I have been to West Africa or around someone who has? NO. It is to protect others and the community. Perhaps if I would have waited until now to get my flu shot, there would be these questions about West Africa. I would not have walked out or be offended. I would say Thank You for your concern of others, and for me. I appreciate the questions. It is not an intrusion of privacy when Ebola is a Deadly disease, such also as in the case of the Mad Cow disease.
Preventative measures can save lives.
In My Opinion Only...

 

[Sonya610]

I'm going to post this again because it provides some new info on questions we have had. It is the 45 minute interview with Dr. Weinstein from Presby who is now one of the few doctors in the country who have (or is it has?) taken care of three ebola patients (Duncan, Pham, Vinson). There is also a transcript if you want to skim:

http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/heal...n-doctor-talks-about-ebola-response/17483917/

Watching that interview. Okay if this was some biomedical techie I would understand but this was a Doctor that took care of patients???

 

[Isabelle]

Dallas County protocol could let Ebola carriers slip through the system

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/metr...a-victims-symptoms-can-still-be-sent-home.ece

It is all about $$$.

 

[sonjay]

I'm going to post this again because it provides some new info on questions we have had. It is the 45 minute interview with Dr. Weinstein from Presby who is now one of the few doctors in the country who have (or is it has?) taken care of three ebola patients (Duncan, Pham, Vinson). There is also a transcript if you want to skim:

http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/heal...n-doctor-talks-about-ebola-response/17483917/

Very interesting interview.

This part jumped out at me:

When I was involved, everyone on the team was doing the same exact thing. Everyone had on full protective gear, so you had on multiple sets of gloves, impermeable, water-impervious zippered jumpsuit, […] gloves taped to the sleeves, […] multiple pairs of liquid-impervious booties, […]masks, and a full, completely-covered headgear that had a source of air that you wore on a belt that's behind you, that's filtered.
​

BBM. Didn't Frieden just a day or two ago blame the nurses by claiming that they were wearing too much PPE and shouldn't have been wearing the multiple gloves and multiple booties? But now here's the doc who was actually treating ebola patients saying that's why he felt that he was safe?

I'm confused.

 

[Isabelle]

They are giving plasma. Brantley was type A+ and Duncan was B+. Not sure why they are not getting plasma from Africa because surely not everyone over there has hiv, malaria, etc...

I looked up storage of plasma and none of the links jumped out at me. Just curious on how all that works and how long it lasts.

Correct, plasma is not blood type specific. It's nice I'd there is a match but in a matter of life and death it should not matter. The fact that Duncan and Brantley were not a match is concerning.

 

[Footwarrior]

Wearing multiple layers of protection does not help if your technique of taking off the gear is faulty.

 

[Sonya610]

Wearing multiple layers of protection does not help if your technique of taking off the gear is faulty.

But it should NOT be faulty because you should have HELP! And also you should be able to be sprayed down with disinfectant BEFORE you even try to take off the gear. And a HELPER should be watching to assist and make sure you don't make a mistake.

 

[i.b.nora]

According to this:

Plasma Compatibility

Plasma contains Anti-A and Anti-B antibodies depending upon blood group. Patients should only receive plasma which does not contain an antibody which could attack their own red cells.(4)

Antibodies are important molecules our immune system makes to help protect ourselves against foreign things such as bacteria and viruses. Antibodies can also be formed in response to different blood groups.

Group O people have both Anti-A and Anti-B so group O plasma can ONLY be given to group O patients. If group O plasma were given to a group A patient, the Anti-A will attack the patient’s group A red cells.(4)

Group A plasma contains anti-B. Group A plasma can only be given to patients who are group A or O i.e. only patients who do not have group B red cells.(4)

Group B plasma contains anti-A. Group B plasma can only be given to patients who are group B or O.(4)

Group AB plasma does not contain any Anti-A or Anti-B. AB plasma can be given to patients who are group AB, A, B or O. Group AB donors are called “universal plasma donors” and their plasma can be safely given to any patient.(4)​

Source:

http://mytransfusion.com.au/node/blood-groups-and-compatibility

 

[WillenFan21]

If u guys have any questions about blood and blood transfusions ask away. My mom is sitting here and could answer them for you. She works in blood bank with this type of stuff.

 

[jjenny]

Correct, plasma is not blood type specific. It's nice I'd there is a match but in a matter of life and death it should not matter. The fact that Duncan and Brantley were not a match is concerning.

There are specific rules for plasma donation (different from blood donation). Brantley is A+ blood type. Duncan is B+ blood type. Brantley's plasma therefore is not a match for Duncan.

"Sometimes patients need plasma administered. The rules for donation are then reversed. Type AB persons, who are universal recipients for packed red cells, are universal donors for plasma because their plasma contains no A or B antibodies that would attack the recipient’s RBCs. Type O persons, who are the universal donors for RBCs, are universal recipients for plasma because their RBCs have no A or B antigens to be attacked by A or B antibodies in transfused plasma."

http://www.livinghealthy360.com/index.php/universal-donors-and-recipients-of-blood-donations-49620/

 

[jjenny]

According to this:

Plasma Compatibility

Plasma contains Anti-A and Anti-B antibodies depending upon blood group. Patients should only receive plasma which does not contain an antibody which could attack their own red cells.(4)

Antibodies are important molecules our immune system makes to help protect ourselves against foreign things such as bacteria and viruses. Antibodies can also be formed in response to different blood groups.

Group O people have both Anti-A and Anti-B so group O plasma can ONLY be given to group O patients. If group O plasma were given to a group A patient, the Anti-A will attack the patient’s group A red cells.(4)

Group A plasma contains anti-B. Group A plasma can only be given to patients who are group A or O i.e. only patients who do not have group B red cells.(4)

Group B plasma contains anti-A. Group B plasma can only be given to patients who are group B or O.(4)

Group AB plasma does not contain any Anti-A or Anti-B. AB plasma can be given to patients who are group AB, A, B or O. Group AB donors are called “universal plasma donors” and their plasma can be safely given to any patient.(4)​

Source:

http://mytransfusion.com.au/node/blood-groups-and-compatibility

Yes. And Dr. Brantely's plasma (he is A+) would not be a match for Duncan (he was a B+).

 

[jjenny]

Very interesting interview.

This part jumped out at me:

When I was involved, everyone on the team was doing the same exact thing. Everyone had on full protective gear, so you had on multiple sets of gloves, impermeable, water-impervious zippered jumpsuit, […] gloves taped to the sleeves, […] multiple pairs of liquid-impervious booties, […]masks, and a full, completely-covered headgear that had a source of air that you wore on a belt that's behind you, that's filtered.
​

BBM. Didn't Frieden just a day or two ago blame the nurses by claiming that they were wearing too much PPE and shouldn't have been wearing the multiple gloves and multiple booties? But now here's the doc who was actually treating ebola patients saying that's why he felt that he was safe?

I'm confused.

CDC seems to be confused on what's best. They have changed the previous PPE guidelines already. Some people are getting infected despite the use of PPE and it's not exactly clear how.

 

[Yoda]

If u guys have any questions about blood and blood transfusions ask away. My mom is sitting here and could answer them for you. She works in blood bank with this type of stuff.

Hi willenfan21 mom :seeya: If you happen to come across any donated blood from someone who already has the antibodies to ebola can you put some aside for me? :whistle: :innocent:

 

[BuzzieCat]

I would have left. If someone asked me that I would tell to go to hell. jmo idk

I had my appendix removed, emergency surgery and when I went to see the Dr that did the procedure at his office for a follow up the receptionist handed me 4 sheets of paper front and back to fill out. After I looked at the papers and determined that the ?'s had nothing to do with the surgery that the Dr had performed( not my family Dr) I walked back up to the receptionist and handed her the papers back and left. And I never got a bill. Too many ?'s for me. jmo idk

I think that's too bad. We as laypeople don't necessarily know what relevance some of the questions might have. They might be concerned as to how some medications or health conditions we might have could react with anesthesia or other circumstances of surgery, for example.

As far as HCWs asking people if they are recently back from West Africa, that is a question that helps everyone now as far as Ebola. They can't tell your travel history just by looking at you. If the HCWs at Presby had been more careful about asking Mr. Duncan about his travel history AND relaying it to his treating physicians, he might have gotten supportive care and been isolated 2 days sooner (even though Presby apparently wasn't prepared with proper PPE, that's another story). Just thought I'd put that out there. I hope health care providers will be asking this question when pertinent and that patients will be forthcoming when answering, for the sake of everyone. This goes for other infectious diseases too, not just Ebola.

ETA: Another question they might ask is about sick contacts. They should have been more careful when they asked Mr. Duncan about this as well.

 

[SStarr33]

Watching that interview. Okay if this was some biomedical techie I would understand but this was a Doctor that took care of patients???

Weinstein is an intensivist. He takes care of the really really sick people in the ICU. And yes, he took care of Duncan, Pham and Vinson.

 

[SStarr33]

Wearing multiple layers of protection does not help if your technique of taking off the gear is faulty.

Is that what happened or did they get infected when they were wearing the lesser gear?

 

[SStarr33]

If u guys have any questions about blood and blood transfusions ask away. My mom is sitting here and could answer them for you. She works in blood bank with this type of stuff.

Ask her how long plasma can be stored. Thank you--this is great.

 

[CARIIS]

Hi guys!

Isn’t everybody over being BS ed and everything only being about money. I just wanna say I am in the camp that believes all of this is hysteria. Because of misinformation, not a virus that thus far has killed far less than influenza in America. (low of about 3,000 to a high of about 49,000 people).

For some reason in this instance everyone is crying for 100% regarding anything about this. Could it become airborne etc.. There is not, one known entity, to mankind, that is 100%- why the expectation that this be the case here.That said (!) however-

I love commercial aviation – have since a kid. So I see this, of course I am interested.

Begin reading......how nice I think information. Its all a bunch of hot air and misinformation IMO. Nicely written, IMO, but BS.

We know today has been challenging for Frontier Airlines team members so we felt it important to provide you with an update of the facts . We take today's events seriously as your safety and that of our customers is always at the forefront of everything we do.

... proactively placed six crew members (two pilots; four flight attendants) on paid leave for 21 days out of an abundance of (guess guys what an abundane of fill in the blank!) caution as the safety and security of our employees is our number one priority.
BS: By this point in the panic the CDC was mandating this. Moreover , if they did not pay them other folks might just quit. They have unions as well!

CDC guidance that stated that our flight crews were safe to fly. (Why the 21 day paid holiday in that case!) CDC, especially by this point, would never have said “such a thing”. Right, air travel is one of the biggest concerns, and CDC says to the CEO of Frontier – yeh let your crews fly all of the place! Please.We have also been working in close cooperation with our unions. I bet you have!

• Aircraft terminates its operation for the evening and is sanitized in accordance with Frontier's standard operating procedures (consistent with CDC guidelines). Give. Me. A. Break. No one, at CDC, has a clue what any guidelines are at this point. Anyone who flew before 1978 can remember what a cleaned airplane can actually look and smell like! Airlines have not been cleaning aircraft – oppppsss.... meant to say airlines are not cleaning aircraft consistent with CDC guidelines, as the implication reads, as a "regular" pattern. Nonsense.

• Frontier is notified by the CDC that a passenger traveling on Frontier flight 1143 Cleveland to Dallas/Fort Worth on October 13 tested positive for the Ebola virus. Immediately upon notification from the CDC, Frontier removes the aircraft from service.
  
• At the request of the CDC, Frontier supplies customer contact information. CDC instructs Frontier that they would contact our customers. Separately Frontier reaches out to impacted customers with CDC contact information.
• It would be fascinating to know the actual number of folks Frontier got in actual contact with! Truth be told, the stated that in this lawsuit happy nation of ours. In court “No one from Frontier told me anything”. We are not stupid!

:

• In light of the new information, Frontier determines that the aircraft will remain out of service …... In an abundance of (come on I want arousing cheer! Think high school pep rally!) caution, it is determined that the aircraft will receive a fourth cleaning since the infected customer was on-board. Though not required, this cleaning will consist of the removal of seat covers and carpets in the immediate vicinity of the passenger seat. Nice and subtle one there!
• Fact: Tray tables have the highest levels of bacteria. All trays are still there!

• The airline will also change the environmental filters on board. The interval varies by aircraft. Most airlines replace cabin air filters at regular "hard time".(There are 4 types of checks for aircraft A B C D. D being basically rebuilding the entire machine! All checks are mandated by the FAA. C Checks are typically every 20–24 months.
• The latest they could have purchased the A320 would have been 2005. So we are talking about a 9 year old aircraft. They have to do it anyhow – this is nothing special, as he implies.In fact, they could probably get there insurance to pay for this one!

s

• NOTE: These extraordinary actions went beyond CDC recommendations. Frontier expects that the aircraft will return to service in a few days. Hangers are 24/7. Changing out 2 rows of seats, and some carpet can be done in half a shift! The machine costs aroud 90 million dollars - I bet she was in the wild blue yonder the next day.

Now, if we roll with the time line, “concern” expanded from one flight segment to 800 folks, the implication being that 800 might carry something, which means that those 800 could sit anywhere – so why did Mr Frontier, in an abundant abuidance of very undated abundance of caution not have all the seats, trays, carpet, galley equipment etc etc changed out.

$$$$$$$$

Just saying................PS: How silly is that gonna look, anyone who boards the aircraft from now on, and sees two rows of new new upholstery and carpet KNOWS I am on the Ebola airplane!!

Off track, IMO with anyone involved in this “In abundance of caution” should be translated to “In an abundance of lawsuit prevention”.



http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_26733552/frontier-ceo-letter-employees-details-paid-leave-crew?source=infinite
http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/2014/10/13/airplane-germs/17044509/



The citation about air filters: IATA Corporate Communications Briefing paper

Cabin air quality – risk of contagious viruses​

​

​

HTTP://Wikipedia/wiki/Aircraft_maintenance_checks#C_Check
​

 

[WillenFan21]

Ask her how long plasma can be stored. Thank you--this is great.

She said: "1 year after it is frozen. "