Elisa Baker - Life Before Adam

[Jacie Estes]

BBM I so agree. The old saying "Follow the Money" comes to my mind. Why didn't LE get warrants for KF's facebook and myspace accounts? Would warrants regarding international people have to come through the FBI versus state or local LE? I wish MSM would look into this.

I would think that Interpol would be involved becase of the England connection and possibly the fact that Zahra was an Australian citizen. I remember seeing on AMW that there were case of child *advertiser censored*/trafficking in Thailand and the perpetrators were from US and Europe and Interpol was the agency that dealt with it. Otherwise doesn't the FBI have a special unit for child *advertiser censored*?

 

[Alice Ramnit]

I don't see as that much of a 'mystery' either. I think that EB seduced men through nurturing and (probably) hyper-sexuality.
I would bet that she has been willing to cater to ANY man's fantasy or desire.

She may not be anything close to a 'sex symbol' in most of our eyes, but I would not underestimate her ability to manipulate through sex and a pretense of 'nurturing'.
She was no 'prize' as she left early adulthood...

Based upon her history, I would say that she is a Sociopath, plain and simple. She sought out men who she could easily manipulate. She silenced them through fear, pain and intimidation.

Kudos to Jeffrey...he may have felt 'frightened', but at least he left on his own!

 

[Alice Ramnit]

I would think that Interpol would be involved becase of the England connection and possibly the fact that Zahra was an Australian citizen. I remember seeing on AMW that there were case of child *advertiser censored*/trafficking in Thailand and the perpetrators were from US and Europe and Interpol was the agency that dealt with it. Otherwise doesn't the FBI have a special unit for child *advertiser censored*?

If England is involved, wouldn't it be Scotland Yard or the MI-5???

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I would think that Interpol would be involved becase of the England connection and possibly the fact that Zahra was an Australian citizen. I remember seeing on AMW that there were case of child *advertiser censored*/trafficking in Thailand and the perpetrators were from US and Europe and Interpol was the agency that dealt with it. Otherwise doesn't the FBI have a special unit for child *advertiser censored*?

It is possible that the product being exchanged was between consenting adults.

Just food for thought.

 

[Jacie Estes]

It is possible that the product being exchanged was between consenting adults.

Just food for thought.

I would hope that there was no pornographic material concerning Zahra.

 

[Hickory Born]

Can Interpol solicit warrants from the court or would that have to be Scotland Yard? Can the FBI solicit warrants from a court in England, without going through Interpol or Scotland Yard?

 

[Jacie Estes]

If England is involved, wouldn't it be Scotland Yard or the MI-5???

That would be possible, as well. This is some info I found:

Agencies involved in Project Flicker child *advertiser censored* investigation

United States:
-- Child Exploitation Section, Cyber Crimes Center, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), U.S. Department of Homeland Security
-- Child Exploitation and Obscenity Section, U.S. Department of Justice
-- U.S. Attorneys office for the Northern District of Alabama
-- Innocent Images National Initiative, FBI
-- Various ICE, FBI and U.S. Attorneys offices around the country
International agencies:
-- International Criminal Police Organization (INTERPOL)
-- European Police Office (EUROPOL)
-- Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre, United Kingdom
-- Metropolitan Police Service in London (Scotland Yard)
-- Postal and Communications Police Service, Italy
-- Australian Federal Police
-- Royal Canadian Mounted Police
-- Ministry of Interior, Republic of Belarus
-- Ministry of Internal Affairs, Ukraine
Source: Matt Dunn, Section Chief and Supervisory Special Agent, Child Exploitation Section of the Cyber Crimes Center, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, U.S. Department of Homeland Security.

http://public.shns.com/content/agen...ker-child-*advertiser censored*-investigation

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I would hope that there was no pornographic material concerning Zahra.

So would I, Jacie. But, at this point, I'm not ruling out any possibility. Like I said, our UK friend got something for his money, we just have no way of knowing what. Maybe they sold him some valuable antiques...who can say?

 

[thisjusthurtsmyheart]

My fear is that they got that money for...(holding my breath and don't want to say it!). Possibly a snuff film or the video or pics of the act of dismembering ZB. I don't know what to think about most of this but there was definitely a reason for the money to be sent. We don't know anything about this person either. He could be just as gullible as the rest of them. And who says that he even knew that AB existed. I mean AB honestly thought that AY was her brother. But this is not the forum to be discussing this I would think. So forgive me mods if this is the wrong area and please don't put me on restriction. :angel: I really just think that this could be a horrible possibility and it truly upsets me. :maddening:

PS. Mods if you need to move this please feel free.:crazy:

 

[Jacie Estes]

My fear is that they got that money for...(holding my breath and don't want to say it!). Possibly a snuff film or the video or pics of the act of dismembering ZB. I don't know what to think about most of this but there was definitely a reason for the money to be sent. We don't know anything about this person either. He could be just as gullible as the rest of them. And who says that he even knew that AB existed. I mean AB honestly thought that AY was her brother. But this is not the forum to be discussing this I would think. So forgive me mods if this is the wrong area and please don't put me on restriction. :angel: I really just think that this could be a horrible possibility and it truly upsets me. :maddening:

PS. Mods if you need to move this please feel free.:crazy:

My prior post in this thread was concerning if eb had been sexually abused as a child or if she had perpetrated sexual abuse on anyone prior to meeting ab. That is why the progression of this. IF she had a background that included sexual abuse it is an option that would be carried forward.

 

[tlcya]

My prior post in this thread was concerning if eb had been sexually abused as a child or if she had perpetrated sexual abuse on anyone prior to meeting ab. That is why the progression of this. IF she had a background that included sexual abuse it is an option that would be carried forward.

There are many who will disagree with you. As a former victim, whose perpetrator was also a former victim, I will not be one of those.

 

[Allusonz]

I am thinking though that there might be 2 states involved here not just one as I dont believe we know where these marriages happened

what it still appears to me as though that her marriage to AB was legal, the other 2 were not

man this is way to convoluted for my overtaxed brain on a regular day rofl

 

[Hickory Born]

I think Australia could charge EB with Bigamy also.

 

[Allusonz]

I think Australia could charge EB with Bigamy also.

Actually i am hoping she does not see the light of day let alone australia again hehe

 

[Lera213]

Why is there no murder charge yet in this case?

 

[Hickory Born]

I would think that the DA's office had checked, double checked, and rechecked ALL the marriage dates, divorces, and annulments before asking the Grand Jury to indict EB on bigamy charges. I would assume the DA's office had to show proof of court documents regarding these marriages, divorces, & annulments to the Grand Jury.

 

[tlcya]

As our own legal expert has stated on the verified lawyer thread, this is almost like an excercise in law school. This is a muddy, messy , convaluted mess of circumstance. I am betting that at least one ADA is frantically researching this very topic.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

AP constructed its profile through interviews with former husbands, relatives and acquaintances, while also drawing on county documents including divorce records and marriage licences. The records show that when she married Mr Baker, in July 2008, she was already married to J. Allred (October 1997) and A. Young (August 1998). She divorced Mr Young a year after marrying Mr Baker, but her marriage to Mr Allred was never dissolved.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/zahras-...people-before-wedding-no7-20110204-1agut.html

their timeline (just to muddy waters a bit more)

Elisa Baker's marriage trail

Sept 14, 1985: married J Winkler, Lenoir, North Carolina.

Jan 29, 1986: Winkler marriage annulled.

Sept 5, 1987: married J Proctor, Gaffney, South Carolina.

Feb 6, 1992: divorced from Proctor.

April 17, 1992: married A Harris jnr, Gaffney, SC.

Feb 4, 1995: married D Putnam, Gaffney, SC.

Dec 14, 1995: divorced from Harris.

Oct 3, 1997: married J Allred, Lenoir, NC.; never legally dissolved.

Aug 8, 1998: married A Young, Gaffney, SC.

Nov 22, 1999: Putnam marriage annulled.

July 8, 2008: married Adam Baker in Australia.

Aug 21, 2009: divorced from Young.

from this timeline, it would appear that you are correct MK, if the Putnam marriage of 95 wasn't anulled until December 99, then I would think her marriages to Allred and Young were not valid and therefore would think her marraige to Adam Baker was (since the above would invalidate her marriage to AY, there would be no need for a divorce since it was never a legal union to begin with). So I disagree with the text of the article based on their very own timeline, the article supposes that she was never divorced from Allred but based on their own timeline I see no need for one as the union wasn't a legal marriage in teh first place based on the lack of divorce/anullment from Putnam at the time.

arrggggggg This is a mess.

Early msm reports had the marriage to Harris listed as occurring in 1991. New msm reports list it as occuring in 1992. So, going with this new date, we'd get:

married to J W 85-86 (legal, annulled)
married to J P 97-92 (legal)
married to H 92-95 (legal)
married to D P 95-99 (not legal, since it overlapped marriage to Harris)
married J A 97-? (legal, since she was never legally married to Putnam. If she was never legally divorced from Allred, then both her marriage to Young and to Baker are invaild.

HOWEVER, earlier msm reports listed her marriage to Allred as occurring in 97 and ending in 2000. If those reports are correct, then we get this:
married to J A 97-2000 (legal)
married to A Y 98-09 (illegal, since it overlaps marriage to Allred)
married Adam Baker 08-present (legal, since she was never legally married to Young, and the marriage to Allred was dissolved in 2000.)

So, from what I can gather, based on conflicting marriage info, the ONLY way her marriage to Baker wouldn't be legal and binding is if she was, in fact, never legally divorced from Allred.

Make sense?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Here is a msm report which agrees with the dates of marriages and divorces I gave earlier, and works out the legalities the same way I did originally.

http://charlotte.news14.com/content...ould-impact-testimony-in-baker-case/?ap=1&MP4

So now, I guess we are left to wonder which dates are correct, and which aren't.

Fun.

 

[Flakes]

I am thinking though that there might be 2 states involved here not just one as I dont believe we know where these marriages happened

what it still appears to me as though that her marriage to AB was legal, the other 2 were not

man this is way to convoluted for my overtaxed brain on a regular day rofl

There have been a couple of super helpful (like wow!) posts from back in November 2010 by Kamille and agathawannabe that will hopefully help fill in the blanks:

Okay so this is what I got from ancestry.com for EB's divorces...

North Carolina Divorce Index, 1958-2004
Marriage & Divorce

Name: EW******
Spouse: JW******
Marriage: Sept 14, 1985 - North Carolina
Divorce: Jan 29, 1986 - Caldwell, North Carolina

Name: EPr*****
Spouse: JDPr*****
Marriage: Sept 5, 1987- South Carolina
Divorce: Feb 6, 1992 - Burke, North Carolina

Name: EH*****
Spouse: AH*****
Marriage: Apr 7,1991 - South Carolina
Divorce: Dec 14,1995 - Lenoir, North Carolina

Name: EPu****
Spouse: DPu****
Marriage: 4 - South Carolina *
Divorce: Nov 22, 1999 - Cleveland, North Carolina

*note* This one is missing the marriage date in the records. It just has the number 4 listed. 1994? She is listed as Elisa Pu**** in other records (address and arrest) in 1995 so she would have been married to him at least since then.

These are from divorce records. Interesting to note there was no record of divorce for E A. I suppose there is no guarantee that these are all actually her, these are just based on the aliases she was using during those time periods.

and:

Good stuff, Kamille - thanks!

Adding to this..

She married (1) A. Winkler in 1985 (Caldwell County) and the marriage was soon annulled. [Source]

(2) Harris, (3) Putnam, (4) Proctor , (5) Allred [1997]

(6) Young [marriage record? apparently there is a divorce record showing August 21, 1009 per J. Moxley 11/17]

(7) Baker [July 2008, per photos with marriage license in Australia]

(8) Damien [forthcoming] ? j/k :crazy: