EVIDENCE - Pro and Con #2

[Madeleine74]

[/QUOTE]

And this is why I can't believe people are still committing murders in 2016!

You'd think all those murdering spouses would look at allllll the other murdering spouses who, by and large, don't get away with their murders and end up in prison for decades and then rethink their plan but no... they never do. They all go ahead thinking they are smart and won't get caught. A few do manage to not get caught or at least not successfully prosecuted. The vast majority fail.

 

[escape2sc]

Still, I can't think of any scenario that I would pee on a stick on demand to prove I was pregnant for some guy I hadn't heard from in over a month. SM tells HE he is leaving TM and wants to be with her but also tells her to take a pregnancy test first ? Wouldn't HE of mentioned to Bri that SM wanted her to take a pregnancy test ? Or SM and TM plan to kidnap/kill HE but only if the test is positive ?

 

[TTF14]

Still, I can't think of any scenario that I would pee on a stick on demand to prove I was pregnant for some guy I hadn't heard from in over a month. SM tells HE he is leaving TM and wants to be with her but also tells her to take a pregnancy test first ? Wouldn't HE of mentioned to Bri that SM wanted her to take a pregnancy test ? Or SM and TM plan to kidnap/kill HE but only if the test is positive ?

Is there a scenario in which he wanted her to take it to prove she was NOT pregnant?

 

[escape2sc]

A decoy? Wouldn't it be better to NOT be seen out at any point that night rather than "out and nearby but just in another place within the same geo area?"

A decoy as in look at me buying this pregnancy test and making this phone call but someone else is kidnapping/killing Heather . Farfetched ? probably. Just doesn't add up that they are smart enough to plan out not using SM's cell phone and deleting the GPS but forgot all about needing to buy the pregnancy test and calling her to lure her out. They obviously know about cell phone records, GPS tracking . They have their own survelliance system, SM works in establishments with surveliiance systems but somehow the possibility of Walmart or the convience store having survelliance systems slipped their minds during the planning ?

 

[escape2sc]

Is there a scenario in which he wanted her to take it to prove she was NOT pregnant?

I think TM wanted HE removed from the face of the earth regardless if HE was pregnant or not. So why buy the pregnancy test ?

 

[TTF14]

Well, maybe the original plan was for him to ask to go over to her apartment and for her to take the test and she said no. Then the planned changed and he somehow convinced her to come out. Maybe she was respecting Bri by not allowing him in her apartment.

 

[Madeleine74]

SM works in establishments with surveliiance systems but somehow the possibility of Walmart of the convience store having survelliance systems slipped their minds during the planning ?

I don't think it slipped his mind, I think that's why he paid cash. A credit card or debit card transaction can be traced. A cash transaction is something you have to know about or find the receipt to know that it occurred.

 

[Madeleine74]

I think TM wanted HE removed from the face of the earth regardless if HE was pregnant or not. So why buy the pregnancy test ?

You can certainly think that, and maybe it's true, but he bought a pregnancy test. It doesn't change the fact that Heather was lured out, abducted, and has never been seen again.

 

[TTF14]

I don't think it slipped his mind, I think that's why he paid cash. A credit card or debit card transaction can be traced. A cash transaction is something you have to know about or find the receipt to know that it occurred.

Checking Walmart cams is probably pretty standard practice in a police investigation. They probably did it to see if he bought a shovel and a tarp and were surprised to find out it was a pregnancy test and a cigar!!

 

[escape2sc]

I don't think it slipped his mind, I think that's why he paid cash. A credit card or debit card transaction can be traced. A cash transaction is something you have to know about or find the receipt to know that it occurred.

Okay...I will buy into SM not thinking LE would ever trace him to Walmart to have to worry about survelliance video. But if he knew enough about cell phone records to turn off his own cell phone for a week, he knew HE's phone records would show the call to the convience store . SO either SM didn't bother to check first to see if this store had a camera covering the pay phone or SM didn't care if the camera caught him using the payphone because he wasn't the one actually kidnapping/killing HE. Yes, SM is still guilty, IMO because he lured her out.

 

[TTF14]

Okay...I will buy into SM not thinking LE would ever trace him to Walmart to have to worry about survelliance video. But if he knew enough about cell phone records to turn off his own cell phone for a week, he knew HE's phone records would show the call to the convience store . SO either SM didn't bother to check first to see if this store had a camera covering the pay phone or SM didn't care if the camera caught him using the payphone because he wasn't the one actually kidnapping/killing HE. Yes, SM is still guilty, IMO because he lured her out.

I think he thought he wouldn't be able to be identified on the pay phone camera. If you didn't know what he was wearing at Walmart (clearer video) you would not be able to say for sure that was him because it wasn't clear. Even knowing what he was wearing, it would be hard to say for sure. Good thing he admitted it.

 

[escape2sc]

For the State to bring kidnapping charges against TM..would they have to have evidence of TM having contact with HE on the 18th ? We haven't seen TM's phone records, have we ? It will be interesting to see if TM called or texted a number that can't be attributed to anyone , like a burner phone SM might of used during that week he didn't use his cell phone.

It would of been interesting to have seen work records for SM for the 16th - the 20th. It would of been interesting to know how the businesses he had contracts with contacted him during the week he didn't use his cell phone. With his type of business , wouldn't the places you contracted with need to be able to get in touch with you in case of an emergency ?

 

[Hoosgirl]

I seem to recall during the trial that LE developed information that SM had been at Walmart. I wonder how? It wasn't because of a debit/credit card transaction.

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[TTF14]

I seem to recall during the trial that LE developed information that SM had been at Walmart. I wonder how? It wasn't because of a debit/credit card transaction.

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Either:

A. Checking Walmart cams is SOP in cases like. Murderers seem to like buying their supplies at Walmart.

B. That clerk watches the news and remembered seeing a man that looked like SM buying a pregnancy test in the middle of the night. They probably even had a convo about it.....I certainly would wish someone well who was buying a test and a CIGAR in the middle of the night.....it would look like he was hoping for good news.

 

[Hoosgirl]

He certainly seemed to take a very long time getting the clerk to get the right cigar/cigarillo/whatever. You're right, maybe he was memorable enough to the clerk!

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[nerdgirl]

I seem to recall during the trial that LE developed information that SM had been at Walmart. I wonder how? It wasn't because of a debit/credit card transaction.

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If you watch the video, he has several interactions when the store is pretty empty. Asks where the pregnancy tests are, points out a specific cigar/cigarillo/whatever several times, then pays with a bunch of change.

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[escape2sc]

If you watch the video, he has several interactions when the store is pretty empty. Asks where the pregnancy tests are, points out a specific cigar/cigarillo/whatever several times, then pays with a bunch of change.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Exactly...not quite the actions of someone that doesn't want to be remembered. Smart enough to not use his cell phone for a week, smart enough to delete GPS history but not smart enough to make the purchase of a pregnancy test and cigars without bringing attention to himself ? But then maybe it was TM who had the brains about the cell phone records and GPS history and SM doesn't have any common sense ? Afterall, TM seems to be pretty good at using Photoshop to completely transform herself. IMO

 

[TTF14]

Exactly...not quite the actions of someone that doesn't want to be remembered. Smart enough to not use his cell phone for a week, smart enough to delete GPS history but not smart enough to make the purchase of a pregnancy test and cigars without bringing attention to himself ? But then maybe it was TM who had the brains about the cell phone records and GPS history and SM doesn't have any common sense ? Afterall, TM seems to be pretty good at using Photoshop to completely transform herself. IMO

Well, maybe the plan was to say "had nothing to do with it. I was at home celebrating our recent pregnancy news with my wife!" Maybe the test was not for Heather at all, but just for show, to set up an alibi. And hell, maybe they WERE trying to have a baby! BUT, he didn't count on being caught on camera at that pay phone, or having his truck caught on camera going to and from PTL.

 

[escape2sc]

Well, maybe the plan was to say "had nothing to do with it. I was at home celebrating our recent pregnancy news with my wife!" Maybe the test was not for Heather at all, but just for show, to set up an alibi. And hell, maybe they WERE trying to have a baby! BUT, he didn't count on being caught on camera at that pay phone, or having his truck caught on camera going to and from PTL.

Agree, I think the truck being on video came as a surprise to them .

 

[bestill]

Did KT ever explain the nearly 5 minute phone call from Heather's phone to SM's when she was at PT Landing? He said the first time they spoke it was to tell her to stop calling him but I don't remember him explaining the second one.