family sources say there is a four hour window for abduction

[norest4thewicked]

I'm really starting to believe that Deborah really wanted everyone to see her sitting on the porch that night. They weren't out back, they were right there in front, and there likely can be witnesses hunted up that could account for DB's whereabouts the entire time that she was outside and highly visible.

I always thought from the beginning that JI was pretty much clueless, but I no longer believe that. When I couple his "anger" over things like lights being left on and a kitten in the house, with the fact that he was alone with Lisa shortly before she was last seen, added to the fact that he is also refusing to cooperate, and all the talk of Lisa's disappearance making them stronger as a couple...I am really starting to believe that he isn't clueless at all.

I'm right there with you! When I saw the photo of the beautiful deck in the back with woods all around, I felt it was extremely weird that they would be sitting on the front porch. There was a reason they did that.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

Have we ever gotten confirmation of the early morning call, or is that still just a rumor (that first started out as a text, IIRC). TIA!

The rumor that it was a text came from a "Kansas City activist" that definitely appears to be an unreliable source.

The information about a phone call at 2:38 came from Judge Jeanine of Fox, who said she got that from LE, I believe.

 

[wvjules]

I'm sorry....we'll just have to agree to disagree. To me, this isn't that complicated. DB killed her baby, accident or on purpose, and hid her little body somewhere. Maybe tossed her in the river. All the rest....wine drinking, sightings of men strolling the hood with a baby, phones not working or actually working.....it's just gorilla dust tossed up by the defense team and the family. MOO

So are you saying that family lawyers and/or family have told people to make up sightings? That's a pretty hefty accusation, IMO. :waitasec:

 

[illinialum]

Look, we are all just trying to figure this out. No need to be testy with me. Sure-there are plenty of people who break into homes with the intention of stealing and end up killing someone unexpectedly. Here in Illinois that just happened to a 14 year old girl who came home while someone was robbing their house and the killed her. Obviously, he's not going to take off with the body of a 14 year old girl. But if your victim is easy to carry and you are afraid of leaving evidence, then sure. Why not? Criminals aren't always smart and their plans aren't always well thought out, particularly if they are under the influence of something.

O/T, but I heard about that 14-year-old girl. It happened near where I grew up, in a fairly safe neighborhood. So sad.

 

[21merc7]

An intruder can and will enter a house with lights on and a door open. I remember a family of 4 here was tortured and murdered for just that reason. 2 guys on crack, just going in to steal a dvd player, stereo, whatever they could get to pawn for more crack money. Family is home, escalated into the murders. This one was daytime.

Also have had break ins where much was stolen while entire families are asleep. Leave a window cracked for air, someone comes right on in. No one heard a thing. How is it possible? The intruder knows what they are doing, is going in and getting out quick. Anything that moves is grabbed and off they go out the front door.

Anything is possible. All of the phones and baby could have been taken while on the front stoop even! Not saying that is what happened b/c I don't know.

 

[norest4thewicked]

Look, we are all just trying to figure this out. No need to be testy with me. Sure-there are plenty of people who break into homes with the intention of stealing and end up killing someone unexpectedly. Here in Illinois that just happened to a 14 year old girl who came home while someone was robbing their house and the killed her. Obviously, he's not going to take off with the body of a 14 year old girl. But if your victim is easy to carry and you are afraid of leaving evidence, then sure. Why not? Criminals aren't always smart and their plans aren't always well thought out, particularly if they are under the influence of something.

I apologize if you thought I was being testy. I was expressing my opinion about the theory post. It doesn't make sense to me. That's all.

 

[Patty G]

Have we ever gotten confirmation of the early morning call, or is that still just a rumor (that first started out as a text, IIRC). TIA!

After searching the Internet, what I have found is articles indicating that MW received a phone call at 2:30 AM, whereas, we all now know the phone call came in ~8:00 PM to 8:30 PM. I think the media was just confused and just put MW in at 2:30 AM when it was ~8:00 to 8:30 PM.

Note: My search in google was Debra Bradley receives a phone call at 2:30 AM.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

An intruder can and will enter a house with lights on and a door open. I remember a family of 4 here was tortured and murdered for just that reason. 2 guys on crack, just going in to steal a dvd player, stereo, whatever they could get to pawn for more crack money. Family is home, escalated into the murders. This one was daytime.

Also have had break ins where much was stolen while entire families are asleep. Leave a window cracked for air, someone comes right on in. No one heard a thing. How is it possible? The intruder knows what they are doing, is going in and getting out quick. Anything that moves is grabbed and off they go out the front door.

Anything is possible. All of the phones and baby could have been taken while on the front stoop even! Not saying that is what happened b/c I don't know.

Perhaps...but do they enter a darkened, occupied home and turn all the lights ON as they go from room to room? Because that is, apparently, what happened in THIS case.

 

[norest4thewicked]

It's possible that a person strolled right past DB and SB, into the house, killed the baby and walked right out past them with the baby in their arms. But, what are the probabilities? And for what reason?

 

[Melanie]

Cuz, she was completely sober and her attention was directed towards the Irwin house all the time, despite the attempt to keep up with a conversation with somebody else. Didn't she put her daughter to bed at any time?

And cuz there is no way the lights could have been turned on hours after Lisa was already gone.

Most excellent observation. Neighbor leaves around 10:30 and lingers in her yard talking to a neighbor for an HOUR, and no mention of how her 4 year old daughter gets into the house, changed, and into bed?

Since this was the first day of the trial separation with her SO, I'm going to assume she locked her door whilst drinking with DB. I'd really like to know more about the husband of the neighbor (who works for Sprint and is married to Samantha Rook Brandon (as evidenced by her FB page). I heard on HLN that this was the first night he was away from home (SPECULATION).

I also heard rumblings that Samantha's husband, James, was poly'd, but can't find it in the MSM.

Do we include James in the list of people associated with this case who the motorcyclist identified (picked out of a line up) or has he been cleared?

MOO

Mel

 

[TheDuchess]

I'm sorry....we'll just have to agree to disagree. To me, this isn't that complicated. DB killed her baby, accident or on purpose, and hid her little body somewhere. Maybe tossed her in the river. All the rest....wine drinking, sightings of men strolling the hood with a baby, phones not working or actually working.....it's just gorilla dust tossed up by the defense team and the family. MOO

No worries. I totally understand where you are coming from as well, as I have been on the other side in other cases as well. I guess on this one, I am just having a difficult time with this particular mom disposing of her child in this way. I don't really know why. Maybe it's the videos of her playing with Lisa that did it for me. I know CA had videos too, but CA was never a primary care giver to Caylee and this woman seems to be a good mom. Something's not right, unless she is covering for someone else in that home.

 

[Wanting2Help]

I wonder where programming the phones fits into the timeline? Before or after the trip to the store? Before or after 10 glasses of wine? How does she remember specifically putting all 3 phones on the counter when she is that drunk and forgot to lock the door and shut off the lights? We know that at least one of them were not on the counter at 8:30 (if the phone call is true). So who put it back? How are they POSITIVE that they are all there?

 

[NancyA]

Or the reporters just can't get it right and keep chaing it to make it 'new'. Or some 'source' comes out of the woodwork and bam, new timeline. DB and JI's timeline hasn't changed much. It is the reporting of it and the 'sources' that are changing it.

And what you see as obvious that someone is covering for someone else, I do not see, so it is not so obvious, IMO.

BBM. This IMO can't be emphasised enough.

 

[21merc7]

Perhaps...but do they entered a darkened, occupied home and turn all the lights ON as they go from room to room? Because that is, apparently, what happened in THIS case.

It is possible. But again, we don't know nuttin' in this case, and the reports are getting screwier and screwier, imho.

How can anyone be sure the neighbor is right? Was she trashed and is remembering a different night? I really don't know.

 

[Amster]

So are you saying that family lawyers and/or family have told people to make up sightings? That's a pretty hefty accusation, IMO. :waitasec:

I didn't say that. I'm sure these people reported what they thought they saw. LE investigated it and as far as I can tell, discounted it. Having these people repeat and repeat and repeat this to the media is for a reason, MOO.

 

[TheDuchess]

After searching the Internet, what I have found is articles indicating that MW received a phone call at 2:30 AM, whereas, we all now know the phone call came in ~8:00 PM to 8:30 PM. I think the media was just confused and just put MW in at 2:30 AM when it was ~8:00 to 8:30 PM.

Note: My search in google was Debra Bradley receives a phone call at 2:30 AM.

8:30 is 20:30 in military time-perhaps that is where the mix up came from? Just guessing here.

 

[norest4thewicked]

Most excellent observation. Neighbor leaves around 10:30 and lingers in her yard talking to a neighbor for an HOUR, and no mention of how her 4 year old daughter gets into the house, changed, and into bed?

Since this was the first day of the trial separation with her SO, I'm going to assume she locked her door whilst drinking with DB. I'd really like to know more about the husband of the neighbor (who works for Sprint and is married to Samantha Rook Brandon (as evidenced by her FB page). I heard on HLN that this was the first night he was away from home (SPECULATION).

I also heard rumblings that Samantha's husband, James, was poly'd, but can't find it in the MSM.

Do we include James in the list of people associated with this case who the motorcyclist identified (picked out of a line up) or has he been cleared?

MOO

Mel

I heard last night on TV that he passed the poly, but couldn't remember in a million years what channel it was. He's a reservist at Whiteman AFB too I believe.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Or the reporters just can't get it right and keep chaing it to make it 'new'. Or some 'source' comes out of the woodwork and bam, new timeline. DB and JI's timeline hasn't changed much. It is the reporting of it and the 'sources' that are changing it.

And what you see as obvious that someone is covering for someone else, I do not see, so it is not so obvious, IMO.

BBM: Respectfully, I disagree.

DB and JI's "timeline" has changed so many times, I am going to need "charts" and a "counter" to keep up with their changes ...

And the reporters are NOT changing the stories -- these "changes" in the Timeline have come straight from DB herself and JI himself ...

AND some of these changes have come from their "SPIN TEAM" ... Stanton, and Tacopino ...

AND some of these changes have come from the family, friends, neighbors of DB and JI ...

MOO ...

 

[Patty G]

Most excellent observation. Neighbor leaves around 10:30 and lingers in her yard talking to a neighbor for an HOUR, and no mention of how her 4 year old daughter gets into the house, changed, and into bed?

Since this was the first day of the trial separation with her SO, I'm going to assume she locked her door whilst drinking with DB. I'd really like to know more about the husband of the neighbor (who works for Sprint and is married to Samantha Rook Brandon (as evidenced by her FB page). I heard on HLN that this was the first night he was away from home (SPECULATION).

I also heard rumblings that Samantha's husband, James, was poly'd, but can't find it in the MSM.

Do we include James in the list of people associated with this case who the motorcyclist identified (picked out of a line up) or has he been cleared?

MOO

Mel

SB's hubby was discussed on Prime News last night.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBy1f04Pbx8"]Lisa Irwin: Prime News 11/2/11 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[mrye4709]

If you are referring to the contradiction about JI seeing Lisa's door open, and then not remembering if it was open or not, that's not insignificant, imo. This is the reason JI gave for bolting down the hall and checking on the kids. Remove that element of the story, and what you're left with is, "Well, why on earth did you suspect something might be wrong with the kids? Just because you came home and found your wife trashed and the lights on?"

ETA: Interestingly enough, in the People mag article, we find Jeremy Irwin running to Lisa's room and finding the door open and the light on. If that article is accurate, then JI didn't even notice her light on, despite the fact that he would have had to walk right past her open bedroom door?! Really?

BBM Do you have a link? I thought he just said most of the lights were on, but I have missed alot of videos and articles. Boy, it's easy to get behind and lost on this case.