Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #2

[jandkmom]

Receiving facilities might not be equipped to do these surgeries. The hospital will agree to have a doctor come in and do them from a different hospital.
So if there is any doctor out there who doesn't believe in brain death then presumably he/she can come in and do these things.
Although of course if the child's body doesn't make it through the procedures will this doctor be sued for malpractice?

Very true. How is she surviving now with no feeding tube? Are they wanting to move her to another hospital or a nursing facility or her just stay where she is?

 

[MyBelle]

Yes. Byrne can't practice in CA. He does not have hospital privileges at CHO. He can visit. He can talk. Byrne's a pediatrician, so he is not qualified in any state to diagnose brain death, but he doesn't believe brain death exists. He can, of course, state his opinion. CHO has already spoken about his credentials in previous court submissions, which are linked in the last thread. Byrne can reinforce what the family already believes because that's what his books are all about. He is against organ transplants, and believes that "brain death" is a way of taking organs from a living person. I have links in the last thread, but, since this is a nameless doctor, I have no way of knowing if it is, in fact, Byrne.

Dr. Byrne would be considered an expert witness before a Court especially in a case that involves freedom of religion and right-to-life.
He is a board certified Neonatologist who has served on the faculties of several medical schools. He has served as President of the Catholic Medical Association.

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/byrne

 

[jjenny]

Very true. How is she surviving now with no feeding tube? Are they wanting to move her to another hospital or a nursing facility or her just stay where she is?

Apparently she is getting sugary water ( I presume through an IV).

 

[vlpate]

Oh yea, it's him.

"In a declaration filed with the federal action by Jahi's family, Dr. Paul Byrne, a pediatrician who has questioned the definition of brain death, said he visited Jahi's bedside and observed her responding to her grandmother's voice and touch with a squirming movement."

http://www.sfgate.com/news/medical/...nded-for-girl-declared-brain-dead-5100915.php

Epivalothanasia * euthanasia, is a term coined by Dr. Paul Byrne. In a personal letter to Cheryl Eckstein, Dr. Byrne said,

. . . I do know that euthanasia is the wrong word for us to be using. The translation of euthanasia from Greek is "good death." We find ourselves being opposed to "good." The correct Greek word for us to be using is Epivalothanasia. c is the Greek word for "imposed death". . .

Epi- from outside; valo - to thrust upon; thanasia - death; thus, death thrust upon from outside. EPIVALOTHANASIA -- IMPOSED DEATH. . . . Paul Byrne, M.D.

This makes perfect sense to me, and I hope helps us for once and for all - to discard the term "passive euthanasia." Dr. Bryne hopes that epivalothanasia will used "so often and commonly that euthanasia will not be used, unless it is by those in support of the pro-death culture."

[link]

 

[Leilei]

Oh yea, it's him.

"In a declaration filed with the federal action by Jahi's family, Dr. Paul Byrne, a pediatrician who has questioned the definition of brain death, said he visited Jahi's bedside and observed her responding to her grandmother's voice and touch with a squirming movement."

http://www.sfgate.com/news/medical/...nded-for-girl-declared-brain-dead-5100915.php

This article also states the name of the facility that she will be going to. First I've seen the actual name of the place. Going to do some research... and I'll bet you're right on Dr. Byrne. But will he agree to the surgeries needed for her transport? Can he even do them at CHO? Edit: Nope, he can't, not in California, as stated above. So who will do the surgery?

 

[LinasK]

To me this is about letting go. So many of us on WS have lost loved ones. Suddenly, violently, unexpectedly, through disease both of long and short duration. If Jahi had been in a car accident or accidentally shot by a sibling or friend, or had taken her own life, resulting in brain death, what would the debate look like? What would change? These agonizing decisions are made every single day. I have knelt with families, cried with families, cried in the break room, hugged family members when it was obvious their loved one had no chance of survival. Heartbreaking. There is nothing like a mother's wail of grief. It sears the heart and soul of everyone present. Please don't think we, as medical professionals in general don't care. For me, personally, this is crystal clear. I have had to take my 20 year old brother off the vent in 1982 and my father in 2010. Earth shattering grief. A lot of us have been where Jahi's mom is, however we let go. We mourn. JMO, JMV, JMO

Don't think that those of us who side with Jahi's family haven't experienced familial death. I've gone through prolonged illnesses- cancer and also sudden death.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Here is the outpatient treatment facility mentioned in the article.

How in the world are the going to care for her there.

http://www.nbli.org/

 

[LinasK]

From a public relations standpoint at this time, I would think the hospital would come out with a statement saying that they send their condolences to the family and that they will do anything within their means to try and help the family deal with their loss. They should say that if the family would like to move their daughter to another facility for their peace of mind, then the current hospital will do all they can on their end to make it possible.

The hospital doesn't need to look like they are being hard-hearted to a family that hasn't come to terms with the loss of their child. If there is going to be a lawsuit, and I imagine that there will be, the hospital needs to show that they did all that they could do medically and emotionally to help this family. A jury will not look kindly to a hospital that refers to a grieving family in an unkind way.

And hard-hearted is exactly the way Dr. Durand and Sam Singer are coming across to me right now- acting like the mother is stupid.

 

[gngr~snap]

Do you have any of the articles handy that explain the other procedures...I saw something in the Daily Mail, but ...well, it's the Daily Mail. I gather there was more to it as far as removing tissue for the sleep apnea...and maybe a procedure for incontinence? Going off memory so I would love a good reference article for exactly what she had done. Thanks

UPPP
uvulopalatopharyngoplasty
http://www.calsleep.com/services-uppp-california-sleep-doctors-bay-area.html
reduction of bilateral inferior mucousal turbinates
http://www.sinuscarecenter.com/treat/surgery_turbinate.htm
Sent from my SGH-T679 using Tapatalk 2

 

[vlpate]

Here's an article from NBC:

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...ep-Jahi-McMath-on-Life-Support-236808851.html

Relevent snippet:

"Doug Straus said this case is not about a “routine” tonsillectomy. He said the surgery was complicated from the beginning, as three procedures were being done simultaneously. The three surgeries, according to court documents, were: an adenotonsillectomy; a uvulopalatopharyngloplasty, or UPPP, which is tissue removal in the throat; and submucous resection of bilateral inferior turbinates, which is nasal obstruction. The family has previously said the surgery was to help fix Jahi's sleep apnea."

Perfect, thank you very much!

 

[SeekingJana]

Oh yes, you are right. Very sad. jmo

Oh. My.Gosh. What is going on in those OR rooms? Different surgeons.. Something's wrong. Wrong.

I have a very different viewpoint of Children's Hospital in Oakland, CA than I did before reading about the first child being in obvious pain and distress and being shoved out the door.

The state should not allow them to do any more T/A surgeries or any elective oral surgery, period, until independent investigators go into the OR rooms and inspect the equipment used for proper size, proper functioning, and also the entire surgical team's knowledge of pharyngeal/ nasal/ oral surgeries. There's a common denominator here somewhere, I tend to think.

 

[LinasK]

I didn't mean to imply that they haven't, just that in every statement that the need to repeat that, because their statements will be read in court.

If she already isn't on a feeding tube currently, why would they need to install one before she leaves? Couldn't the receiving facility do that? If the receiving facility refuses to take the patient, the the family will have no choice. I hope that she can transfer somewhere else just for the peace of the family.

Because she most likely has a NasoGastric tube now, which are easily dislodged-taped in place to the nose. She needs a permanent tube- a G-Tube in her stomach, or a J-Tube in her intestines, both of which require a minor incision to insert.

 

[LinasK]

Oh. My.Gosh. What is going on in those OR rooms? Different surgeons.. Something's wrong. Wrong.

I have a very different viewpoint of Children's Hospital in Oakland, CA than I did before reading about the first child being in obvious pain and distress and being shoved out the door.

The state should not allow them to do any more T/A surgeries or any elective oral surgery, period, until independent investigators go into the OR rooms and inspect the equipment used for proper size, proper functioning, and also the entire surgical team's knowledge of pharyngeal/ nasal/ oral surgeries. There's a common denominator here somewhere, I tend to think.

That's why I'll be happy when there is a full JCAHO investigation of them.

 

[jjenny]

Here is the outpatient treatment facility mentioned in the article.

How in the world are the going to care for her there.

http://www.nbli.org/

Outpatient? I can't envision how that could possibly work.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Here is info on Dr. Byrne

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/byrne

Someone said he was licensed to practice in CA?

 

[Steft50]

Here is the outpatient treatment facility mentioned in the article.

How in the world are the going to care for her there.

http://www.nbli.org/

Probably here. They were scheduled to open in August from the bit I read, but I didn't notice anything that said they did open. I wonder if this is the "fault" in the transfer that the hospital said.

http://riverheadnewsreview.timesrev...r-long-term-care-facility/#.UVGVjREltoQ.email

 

[SophieRose]

On tonight's local news the family says they have received offers from facilities in Arizona and San Bernardino County (Southern California) that are willing to take Jahi.

 

[scmom]

How many brain dead people have been healed at New Beginnings I wonder. Or any other health care facility.

 

[jjenny]

On tonight's local news the family says they have received offers from facilities in Arizona and San Bernardino County (Southern California) that are willing to take Jahi.

Yea, I will believe it when I see it.

 

[MyBelle]

Here is info on Dr. Byrne

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/byrne

Someone said he was licensed to practice in CA?

He doesn't need to be licensed there to offer an expert opinion to a court.