FL 17 y/o Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #12

[songline]

RBBM
Like being nearly unconscious? I don't see how one can be conscious enough to be able to be considered competent at that moment to provide informed consent to refuse medical treatment and yet be so injured they are near barely conscious and moments away from brain damage or death...well, I suppose that's why GZ's brother probably isn't going to be chosen as a spokesperson for GZ's family any time soon. imo

I don’t know. But what if..He was conscious enough to know he is in danger, was told you are going to die, and just shot...
He can still be competent to tell the police what happened. But the trauma was more than enough, and won’t go to the
ER for another few hours of a sit and wait.
I can see me thinking that way if I had to go to the ER. But it is not right one can die

 

[Sensei]

Like Natasha Richardson, they did want to take her to hospital, and I believe an ambulance did come.
she said she is fine and would just lay down for a while, but refused to go to the hospital.
Well she did lay down but she never got up.

GZ may have refused, they cannot force you
We dont know....

the difference there is that Natasha Richardson was NOT in police custody, she was not detained, nor was she arrested and that changes the entire situation.

Once you are in LE custody, whether it is for questioning or as an arrest they are RESPONSIBLE for you, and if you die, then they can be sued. Therefore, if they detain you or arrest you and there is any question, they can and will force you to go....at least most of them that are not willing to be named in a lawsuit, and maybe even face charges will.

 

[LambChop]

I thought GZ asked to go to the hospital and LE refused. He could have gone after he was released on his own and did not go. It appears in the video that one of the officers is looking at the back of his head so he must have said something. But the officer looks and does not seem to see anything that would cause a concern so that could have been when he asked. jmo

 

[LolaMoon08]

I wonder how well-known Zimmerman was among the patrol officers. I wonder if they might have been perturbed by his overzealousness and kind of treated him as more of an annoyance that night. From the videos, the more stout officer certainly looks like he's definitely not too amused by Zimmerman's presence. It's kind of like "Crap, I have to deal with this dude again."

I thought the same thing, but this is the same officer who was the first to arrive on the Collison case, so I already have a bad opinion of him.

However, I am very surprised that Zimmerman had not been charged with abusing the 911 system. He only started calling the non-emergency line when he became the Neighborhood Watch Captain.

 

[katydid23]

OKAY, just hypothetically. If it can be shown that it was GZ who was screaming for help....would that alter anyone's opinions at all?

 

[Sensei]

I thought GZ asked to go to the hospital and LE refused. He could have gone after he was released on his own and did not go. It appears in the video that one of the officers is looking at the back of his head so he must have said something. But the officer looks and does not seem to see anything that would cause a concern so that could have been when he asked. jmo

I agree, and if he asked to go, and they didn't take him, then they better be prepared for a whopper of a lawsuit if it can be proven that he had head injuries....

IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[Donjeta]

I AGREE. I have said all along he had no right to get out of the car and follow him with a gun.

But that is not my point. My point has been that as long as we are going to do this national protest march, that we should actually deal with the MAJOR cause of death in black community and also the major REASON for racial profiling. If the activists want people to stop 'profiling' then they are going to have to rein in the culture. As long as the black young males are perpetrated crime at 8 times the national average, there is going to be profiling.

I agree with most of this except that I make a distinction between "profiling" and "prejudice". IMO what happened here wasn't profiling it was prejudice.

If a black gang member gets shot and we say, "oh, it was probably some other black gang member who did it because that's what the statistics say" that'd be profiling, and we could be quite right.

If a black teenager cuts across the grass to go home and we say, "oh, he must be up to no good" it's prejudice.

The difference is IMO that in the first instance there is a crime and there may be statistics to support that most perpetrators of similar crimes are black gang members.

In the second instance there is no crime, there are no statistics to show that black teenagers who cut across the grass are more likely to be up to no good than not, there is just our expectation that all black teenagers are inherently evil, even though facts clearly show that it's not true.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

OKAY, just hypothetically. If it can be shown that it was GZ who was screaming for help....would that alter anyone's opinions at all?

I don't think so.

But that's just my opinion.

 

[RANCH]

This experts findings on the audio recordings doesn't look good for GZ at all. But we have to remember that juries sometimes disregard expert testimony.

If Zimmerman's self-defense claim is tested at trial, legal experts say a forensic identification of the voice in the 911 audio could be key evidence, either in Zimmerman's favor or to his detriment.

Still, Maine-based audio enhancement expert Arlo West says that today's juries sometimes seem reluctant to accept evidence that's any less conclusive than what they're used to seeing on television.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...cation-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty

 

[iluvmua]

OKAY, just hypothetically. If it can be shown that it was GZ who was screaming for help....would that alter anyone's opinions at all?

I would want to see the the tox reports and autopsy reports and 7-11 CCTV tape if there is one that was recording.

 

[Sensei]

OKAY, just hypothetically. If it can be shown that it was GZ who was screaming for help....would that alter anyone's opinions at all?

Considering the independant test that the Orlando Sentinel has the results of that appears to be extemely improbable at this point. Just with my naked ear I don't now and never did think that screaming was GZ. IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[Donjeta]

This experts findings on the audio recordings doesn't look good for GZ at all. But we have to remember that juries sometimes disregard expert testimony.


http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...cation-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty

Well it won't matter if he never gets charged for anything and no jury ever hears any evidence.

 

[RANCH]

Well it won't matter if he never gets charged for anything and no jury ever hears any evidence.

I think he will get charged with something. If not by the State of Florida then it will be by the Feds. Or both.

 

[LolaMoon08]

OKAY, just hypothetically. If it can be shown that it was GZ who was screaming for help....would that alter anyone's opinions at all?

Nope! I still think he should be charged with Trayvon's death. I don't think it was premeditated or anything, but there is nothing that will ever convince me that George Zimmerman was justified in shooting Trayvon Martin.

 

[katydid23]

As long as people do not misuse or misinterpret this to mean that GZ was justified in suspecting and in stalking Trayvon because he was black, fine. Would you want YOUR kids to be suspected, stalked, and shot because being 1/2 black makes them more statistically likely to be robbing houses than to be walking home?

I cannot begin to fathom how frightening this incident is for parents of black children everywhere. If you can't let them walk to a store and back for fear of them being shot down, JUSTIFIABLY so according to many people, how can they even sleep at night?

And just because some MIGHT misinterpret or misuse the facts it does not mean we should not discuss them, imo. We sweep these politically incorrect facts under the rug because it is awkward and even looks 'racist' to bring them up.

I don't think GZ was justified in stalking TM, but he was justified in being suspicious, given the recent burglaries.

And we are frightened for our kids. As all parents are everywhere. But I have much less of a reason to believe that a neighborhood watchman is going to kill my son, than that another black male is going to do so. And that is really frightening.

 

[justthinkin]

Orlando Sentinel had TWO separate experts do voice analysis on the screams that were taped. BOTH of them said that it is positively NOT George Zimmerman who is screaming for help.

Then there's the probable cause for arrest, if, a voice analyst with the FBI confirms.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I would want to see the the tox reports and autopsy reports and 7-11 CCTV tape if there is one that was recording.

They sealed his autopsy report. It will not be released unless it goes to trial.

Why do you need the video of 7-11? Just curious? I'd rather have video from the complex!

Oh, but you may be on to something? What if Zimmerman can be seen at the store too? What if he seen Trayvon walking back towards the complex and waited for him?

 

[Sensei]

I think he will get charged with something. If not by the State of Florida then it will be by the Feds. Or both.

I personally think that the States Attorney needs to be transparent if for some reason they decide not to charge him, she needs to lay out all the indesputable evidence for everyone to see that shows that this was in fact a justified shooting. IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[OneLove]

I AGREE. I have said all along he had no right to get out of the car and follow him with a gun.

But that is not my point. My point has been that as long as we are going to do this national protest march, that we should actually deal with the MAJOR cause of death in black community and also the major REASON for racial profiling. If the activists want people to stop 'profiling' then they are going to have to rein in the culture. As long as the black young males are perpetrated crime at 8 times the national average, there is going to be profiling.

I see the national protest march as being support for Trayvon, a public cry for a fair investigation, and a highlight for the world at large on how injustice in our systems is still alive and well.

In all fairness, to expect them to somehow include in their march a solution for eliminating crime in young black males so that no other young black male is ever again unfairly treated is expecting a tad much. It would be tantamount to marching on behalf of a Mexican male being mistakenly shot as a border-crossing drug runner but expecting the marchers to also have a solution to keep Mexican drug runners from crossing the border so that no mexicans were ever suspected of that again.

I understand the frustration at the larger problem, I do. But resenting their position on this one particular case because they can't solve the nation's larger issues, which probably have to do with poverty, hopelessness, culture of entitlement, generational drug abuse, mega-million celebrity worship with the attending materialism, blatant commercialism, and loss of stable family units, well , truly, isnt that expecting a lot?

In my early years and career, I was devoted to advocating for the disenfranchised, the poverty-stricken, etc, and passionately worked for equitable treatment for all. I have NEVER given up my peace and love heart and soul. But I have lived long enough to know there are no quick solutions to enormous problems, especially when the majority of people are more concerned with that extra 2 pennies in their pocket than seeing that an impoverished child gets to eat. For true change to happen, pathological narcissism, greed, and blame must be eradicated and replaced by love and a true desire for the best interests of all. And sadly, at 57, I realize that just ain't gonna happen.

 

[gator]

What evidence is favorable to GZ at this point? Just contested witness testimony, a questionable police report, and the rapidly changing stories of GZ himself, a man who is desperately trying to avoid prison?