GUILTY FL - Calyx, 16, & Beau Schenecker, 13, shot to death, Tampa, 27 Jan 2011 #1

[Litig8r]

Here is what (well, it's one thing of many) I'm having trouble understanding: If the father had any even remote suspicion that the mother was struggling with a drug and alcohol problem (his and the kids' visit to Al-Anon indicates that he may have had such knowledge), and given the extreme tension documented between the mother and the daughter, was he not concerned about leaving the country and leaving the mother as the sole caregiver? In absolutely NO way am I suggesting that this is is fault (it's NOT), or that he could have seen this coming (he could NOT have). I'm just wondering if he had concerns about leaving the kids given some things that were evidently going on with JPS. If nothing else, wouldn't he have been worried about JPS driving the kids to and from their obligations while under the influence?

In a prior post, someone asked about King High School and specifically what was the attraction for Calyx. King is a magnet school, and it's an excellent one. If I'm not mistaken, students must be invited to apply. It's a highly desired school among many parents in the Tampa area. You can read more specifics about King's attributes here:

http://king.mysdhc.org/King History

 

[Charlie09]

I'm watching Nancy grace and I can't believe the reactions! We had a man kill many people in Arizona and he too was mentally ill! I don't hear much sympathy for him. We don't know what issues this woman had, but there isn't much to indicate she had a brain injury. The accident seemed very tame. I think she was putting in for the cameras. She appeared in court looking and acting normal.

Like someone said, working for the NSA isn't a run of the mill military job. She's most likely been psychologically evaluated. Has anyone thought that maybe she was abusive to her children all their lives?

Like mark klaas said the victims are the kids not the mother. The poor father had the right reaction. He is mourning the loss of the children and not running to her side. That is very telling.

I'm just seriously outraged that just cause she is well to do and a woman that there must be a mental reason she killed her kids. If this was a man would many have the same reaction??? IMO she planned the cold murder of her kids. She was fed up. She doesn't have to be crazy. People murder all the time so are all of them mentally ill??? Depression is not defense.

My only disagreement with you, is that as a mother, I have such a hard time believing a mom could just in cold blood kill her kids - it's so much easier for me to process if there's a brain injury or mental defect somewhere.

After a day or two of processing though....I'm with you 100% - she doesn't have to be crazy to kill her kids.

 

[alwaysonmymind]

How is JPS different from Andrea Yates? She planned to kill her kids too, didn't she? I don't know either of their whole stories or what led them to be violent toward their children, but in JPS's case, without all the facts I have to start with sympathy toward her. I believe it's completely possible to go stark raving mad under the influence of drugs and alcohol to the degree that the unthinkable occurs. Was she responsible for her actions? Absolutely, but judging her without all the facts seems unfair to me.

JMO

The Yates case comes to my mind also.

There are too many unanswered questions about Mom's state of mind and how she got there. moo

 

[Vresia]

Litig8r said: "I'm just wondering if he had concerns about leaving the kids given some things that were evidently going on with JPS."

The thought that the father knew things were wrong when he left for Qatar has haunted me, too. He knew. The Al-Anon meeting is evidence of that. It must have been very hard for him to leave home given his concerns. And I agree, there is NO way he could have ever seen this coming.

The DCF summary report states "The children are old enough to self support if there are any concerns in the home." http://download.gannett.edgesuite.net/wtsp/pdfs/2011/schenecker-investigative-summary.pdf

Perhaps, the father had discussed contingency plans with the children in the event they suspected JPS was impaired and unfit to drive. I wonder if JPS was on her best behavior prior to the husband's departure already developing her plan. I wonder if JPS felt that the father & kids had ganged up on her. There had to be some sense of that in the home even if it wasn't verbalized.

One of the reporter's in the perp walk video can be heard asking JPS if she was mad at her husband. Maybe she was punishing him for outing her addiction ?

 

[not_my_kids]

I can't go with evil on this one. I just don't smell it.

However, if it were a male, a father that killed his kids, and then hung around and failed to kill himself, regardless of addictions, job, or mental illness, I would still probably label him evil. Call him a normal family annihilator, maybe sick, but definitely evil. Gimme some time, this is one of those things that is a little hard to reconcile. In time, I will likely see her as evil, or her mask will slip on camera and change my mind.

 

[LaLaw2000]

I don't know if she bought a snubbed nosed .38 or a long barrel. It would make a difference but yes, imo, the shot could be heard if outside in an open area. A .38 use to be the weapon of choice for the police departments at one time.

But I have seen so many cases where no one heard gunshots inside a home. Even those that lived in an adjacent apartment right beside the victim. There would be so many variables that would have to be considered.

Houses are built much more constructionally sound these days with sound barriers inside the walls...... so inside her home the gunshot wouldn't be heard, imo and if the windows were closed and she did kill her son when they returned home then those sounds would be low and muffled also.

imo

BBM: Yes, a .38 is what my late husband had. The Fraternal Order of Police engraved it for him when he retired. It is not a really loud discharge, but when you hear it, you know it was a gunshot as opposed to fireworks. I have a Glock, and a 357.

If she killed her son in the garage in the vehicle with the windows rolled up, I doubt the neighbors would have heard anything.

I understand that she then went upstairs and shot her daughter. I would certainly think someone would have heard that shot if anyone was home on either side of the house. Sound would travel further from the upstairs, IMO.

Julie S. had to have been an extremely intelligent woman to have had the career she had. I am sure her Army MOS brought her a great deal of respect as well as importance. Now she was 50, and a stay at home Mother. Both of the children were involved in sports and were popular students. Her husband is an Army Col.. She may have gotten depressed because she did not have enough in her life to feel important. Who knows? Something had to have been drastically wrong. I would think her husband would have picked up on her state of mind being that he is in Intelligence.

These senseless murders never cease to make me just say, "Why, why, why?" Kill yourself if you have to, but FGS leave the innocent children out of it. This woman had the American Dream and has now killed her children and placed her husband in a painful, awful position of having lost his children and having a wife who is now a murderer x2. I will never understand!!!

 

[BOZGAL]

I am sure I am in the minority but I do not buy into any mental illness.
When you plan a murder mental illness does not cut it with me.
Just like with the AY case, it just opens the door for more murderers to claim they went crazy. I did not like what happened in that case and I do not like the road this one is apparently going to walk down.

My heart breaks for the Father of these 2 lovely children who were murdered in cold blood. :rose: :rose:

jmho

 

[Tuffy]

BBM: Yes, a .38 is what my late husband had. The Fraternal Order of Police engraved it for him when he retired. It is not a really loud discharge, but when you hear it, you know it was a gunshot as opposed to fireworks. I have a Glock, and a 357.

If she killed her son in the garage in the vehicle with the windows rolled up, I doubt the neighbors would have heard anything.

I understand that she then went upstairs and shot her daughter. I would certainly think someone would have heard that shot if anyone was home on either side of the house. Sound would travel further from the upstairs, IMO.

Julie S. had to have been an extremely intelligent woman to have had the career she had. I am sure her Army MOS brought her a great deal of respect as well as importance. Now she was 50, and a stay at home Mother. Both of the children were involved in sports and were popular students. Her husband is an Army Col.. She may have gotten depressed because she did not have enough in her life to feel important. Who knows? Something had to have been drastically wrong. I would think her husband would have picked up on her state of mind being that he is in Intelligence.

These senseless murders never cease to make me just say, "Why, why, why?" Kill yourself if you have to, but FGS leave the innocent children out of it. This woman had the American Dream and has now killed her children and placed her husband in a painful, awful position of having lost his children and having a wife who is now a murderer x2. I will never understand!!!

BBM:

It would be interesting to know if she used ear protection. That would have done some ear damage!

 

[Gozgals]

I am sure I am in the minority but I do not buy into any mental illness.
When you plan a murder mental illness does not cut it with me.
Just like with the AY case, it just opens the door for more murderers to claim they went crazy. I did not like what happened in that case and I do not like the road this one is apparently going to walk down.

My heart breaks for the Father of these 2 lovely children who were murdered in cold blood. :rose: :rose:

jmho

I do not buy mental illness in this case either. I do buy it as a defense when it exists. She is evil and planned to kill her children. I think we need to stop feeling she is a victim of sorts and remember the children are the victims.

Goz

 

[DesertCookie]

To those of you that aren't buying mental illness.. is it just because she "planned" the murders? Do you think that a mentally impaired person can't "plan" things? Many folks think Jared Loughner is mentally ill yet he planned his murderous rampage in Tucson. Just wondering.

Then there's this which is darn scarey...

According to the American Anthropological Association, more than 200 women kill their children in the United States each year. Three to five children a day are killed by their parents. Homicide is one of the leading causes of death of children under age four, yet we continue to "persist with the unrealistic view that this is rare behavior," says Jill Korbin, expert on child abuse, who has studied mothers who killed their children. http://crime.about.com/od/female_offenders/a/mother_killers.htm

How many of these women were psychotic or simply evil? Makes me rethink JonBenet Ramsey.

 

[strawberry]

I am sure I am in the minority but I do not buy into any mental illness.
When you plan a murder mental illness does not cut it with me.
Just like with the AY case, it just opens the door for more murderers to claim they went crazy. I did not like what happened in that case and I do not like the road this one is apparently going to walk down.

My heart breaks for the Father of these 2 lovely children who were murdered in cold blood. :rose: :rose:

jmho

Last night JVM was harping on the substance abuse bandwagon. I thought, oh here we go again with her addict nation. But I'm thinking that's what is going on. With the supposed Al-Anon meeting the kids and hubby went to, and her daughter's anger at her mother it seems like a very real possibility. Imagine this 16 year old well-to-do-good-student-athlete...what does she have to be angry about? How about a mother that has gone from an involved parent to one who is an addict. I think her shaking was a detox. I think her pre-existing "medical condition" was alcoholism. IMO. I have a fourteen year old daughter. Her father came back from being away in the army for 2 years, and to his new wife and stepchildren. Over the last year my daughter has been very angry and has taken it out on me. She is in therapy but as someone upthread said, although she is the client, it is really her emotionally abusive father who is the cause and needs the help. My dd was taking her anger at her father's neglect and abandonment out on me who is safe to her. Needless to say this case hits close to home. My daughter had a drastic personality change and called me things I never would have dreamed of her saying...and I admit I did slap her after one of those things flew out of her mouth. But never never never never would I have thought to do something like this... I wanted her back, not gone. PS she is doing much better now with therapy and support.

 

[strawberry]

How is JPS different from Andrea Yates? She planned to kill her kids too, didn't she? I don't know either of their whole stories or what led them to be violent toward their children, but in JPS's case, without all the facts I have to start with sympathy toward her. I believe it's completely possible to go stark raving mad under the influence of drugs and alcohol to the degree that the unthinkable occurs. Was she responsible for her actions? Absolutely, but judging her without all the facts seems unfair to me.

JMO

Andrea Yates was clearly psychotic, hearing voices telling her things. She fought off the voices for a long long time. IIRC she even once tried to kill herself so the children would not be harmed. In her sick twisted mind she thought she was saving her children from eternal damnation..her delusions were very deep. This woman was just angry that her kids were talking back and possibly had some drinking / drugs use going on. IMO

 

[Track292008]

How much time do I have to compose a message before the time for posting expires? I just "lost" a message that had taken me a while to compose before attempting to post.

TIA...and thanks to all for your useful links, ideas and information!

 

[Litig8r]

Last night JVM was harping on the substance abuse bandwagon. I thought, oh here we go again with her addict nation. But I'm thinking that's what is going on. With the supposed Al-Anon meeting the kids and hubby went to, and her daughter's anger at her mother it seems like a very real possibility. Imagine this 16 year old well-to-do-good-student-athlete...what does she have to be angry about? How about a mother that has gone from an involved parent to one who is an addict. I think her shaking was a detox. I think her pre-existing "medical condition" was alcoholism. IMO. I have a fourteen year old daughter. Her father came back from being away in the army for 2 years, and to his new wife and stepchildren. Over the last year my daughter has been very angry and has taken it out on me. She is in therapy but as someone upthread said, although she is the client, it is really her emotionally abusive father who is the cause and needs the help. My dd was taking her anger at her father's neglect and abandonment out on me who is safe to her. Needless to say this case hits close to home. My daughter had a drastic personality change and called me things I never would have dreamed of her saying...and I admit I did slap her after one of those things flew out of her mouth. But never never never never would I have thought to do something like this... I wanted her back, not gone. PS she is doing much better now with therapy and support.

First, I'm happy to hear that your daughter is doing better, and thanks for sharing your experience.

I had similar thoughts regarding the discord between Calyx and JPS. If Calyx had undergone some sort of behavioral change it could have well been in response to alleged changes in JPS. Could you imagine the frustration a teenage girl might experience if her mother developed a substance abuse problem, or some other physiological issue? Obviously we don't know for sure, but it seems to make sense to me that Calyx's words to JPS such as "You are disgusting" and "You're not my parent" could indicate that JPS was indeed not the same mother that Calyx was used to. Your thoughts on a detox happening in JPS also give me a new angle to consider. That makes sense!

 

[Track292008]

Didn't Calyx just start at the prestigious King H.S. in September? I have a hunch it was the transfer that caused the need for carpooling, which gave mother and daughter more time to be together than they were used to -- more time to get on each other's nerves! Also, perhaps Julia had some (at the time) unexpressed jealousy or resentment of her daughter having the opportunity to attend such a prestigious school. After all, Julia herself was a high achiever without such benefits.

That International Baccalaureate program is very interesting; I live in California and have three children who attended -- and did well in -- highly regarded public high schools here and I had never heard of the IB program until this tragic situation occurred.

 

[DesertCookie]

Okay, the husband knew his wife was abusing alcohol, possibly drugs and also hitting the daughter. Did he also know she was depressed and did he understand what can go really, really wrong when that combination gets out of hand? (Remember Susan Eubanks who killed her four boys in a drunken rage?) I'm not blaming the husband, though I'm pretty sure he is blaming himself. What could he have done? Did the fact that JPS was an educated, professional woman make him think she wasn't capable of such a heinous crime? Did he think because she was getting counseling and perhaps promising she'd straighten out that his kids would be safe with her? He's got to be drowning in a sea of guilt. My heart goes out to him. Yet, hitting your kid in the face with a closed fist is seriously unacceptable to me. Did he really think she'd stop there?

 

[Searchfortruth]

The facial movements we saw the mom making, as she was lead to LE's vehicle, reminds me very much of Tardive dyskinesia. This causes the symptoms we saw with the mother and is a result of long term and/or high dose anti psychotic medications. Link below...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardive_dyskinesia


It could be drugs like meth/crack, but I lean more towards an effect of certain psych meds. How long had she been out of work ?

 

[Litig8r]

Didn't Calyx just start at the prestigious King H.S. in September? I have a hunch it was the transfer that caused the need for carpooling, which gave mother and daughter more time to be together than they were used to -- more time to get on each other's nerves!

Interesting thoughts. I obviously don't know about their particular carpool, but there are lots of families in the area that go to King. It's very likely that JPS could have only been obligated to drive carpool as little as once a week.

 

[Litig8r]

Some new information regarding the scene when officers arrived here:

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2011/fe...covery-of-slain-tampa-palms-te/news-breaking/

It says JPS was unconscious when officers arrived, Calyx had been moved to the bed, both kids had been covered with blankets, bullets, casings and a gun instruction manual were found in the master bedroom and JPS had fired a warning shot through the windshield of the SUV.

All interesting...

 

[lucky181]

Did her husband have the ability to tell his superiors that he couldn't take the assignment to Qatar because he was concerned about his wife? I know he is high ranking but I'm not sure how this type of situation would be handled in the army.