GUILTY FL - Calyx, 16, & Beau Schenecker, 13, shot to death, Tampa, 27 Jan 2011 #1

[strawberry]

Shock, panic and dry mouth do not account for what you see. Her gait, eyes, and mouth movements are recognizably the result of either a pre-existing neurological condition or treatment, or an acute manifestation or exacerbation of medication or illness-related abnormal movements.

True; that was just my first impression. She definately looks Parkinsonian, TD, or in withdrawal.

 

[strawberry]

I believe JPS was really, really mad.

I think that around the time of the slap & the accident, Calyx had recognized that something was very wrong with JPS. This was successfully conveyed to her father and, by ~New Years, it was 3 against 1 in that family. JPS was put on notice that the others knew she had a serious problem. Her life (especially status in her family), as she had known it, had "ended" with her being exposed.

The family dynamics were radically changed & JPS attributed this to her "mouthy kids". I think "mouthy kids" was a shorthand for what "ended" her life. I think she blamed her intelligent, articulate teens for verbalizing forbidden perceptions (like her substance abuse and it's consequences).

I think that by the time JPS got the gun and began writing her twisted thoughts, she saw her life as essentially over. She was the walking dead, beyond hopelessness but still smouldering with rage & blame at those she held responsible. She believed & accepted that there was no way out for her. It was just a matter of officially ending it & taking with her the ones she blamed.

Right now, I am convinced JPS intended to commit suicide. I don't know why she didn't.

I think she did try to commit suicide by overdose. She violently assaulted her kids, but chose a gentler method for herself IMO. I agree she was angry. What I don't get is if it is true they went to an Al-Anon meeting why didn't her hubby force her into rehab? He said he does something with crisis intervention for his job...why didn't he have an intervention for her? Not that this is ANYONE's fault but hers, but I just wonder. Of course, hindsight is 20/20

 

[strawberry]

Thanks very much for the newspaper link...

I am really surprised that DCF allowed it's report to be made public! I am a Guardian Ad Litem....so I am wondering if the Dad will be able to hold them accountable for not keeping the case open. I seems to me that they thought that he was in permanant residence at the home.

Things must have really gotten much worse when he left to go back out of the country.

Dear me this is such a sad case. Those poor children had so much to live for.

DEAR GOD...PLEASE BLESS THE FAMILY OF CALYX & BEAU!!!

I knew from following the Casey Anthony case that everything will be made public due to the sunshine laws in Florida. I'm not sure how much would be public if the children were still alive, though. I am sure the media will request anything and everything they can...the phone call to police from mom, the police reports, etc.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Not to be argumentative, just thinking out loud.

How is buying a gun days ahead of committing a murder any different than filling a tub with water and chasing down your child in order to drown them? Both require "premeditation", do they not? So can there be premeditation in insanity? It would appear so if the Andrea Yates verdict was/is correct.


Again, just thinking out loud. And MOO..............

Sure is food for thought.

I speak from my own experiences here- always- because it's all I have to go on. I have no degrees, no schooling, what I do have is mental illness... I have been psychotic. In my opinion "premeditation" is different then listening to the "voices in your head". Delusions control your thought process, you lose your grasp on reality.. fact can become fiction, right can become wrong.. and wrong can become right. Your loving spouse can be turned into some sort of animal sent to kill you, your friends and neighbors into government spies.. your children into potential destroyers of the free world...the devil himself. When your mind believes these things you act in ways that make no sense.. often even to yourself. This thing in your mind is saying (and it's not even an actual "voice" that you hear, it's not like somebody whispering/talking into your ear, it's speaking into your mind) "kill your kid.. kill your kid killyourkid KILLYOURKID" and your thinking no,no,no but it doesn't relent and there can come a point where you lose your ability to stop telling yourself not to act on these things even if they don't make sense, even if you know they are illegal. Your self control and ability to reason is non-existent...and so you give in. You don't plan it, you give in, you go along with what your mind is tricking you into believing. Which IMO was the case with Andrea Yates. She was delusional.. for a long long time and tried to fight it but eventually gave in.

This woman? She told LE she killed her kids because they didn't listen to her, weren't treating her right (I don't know her exact wording so please excuse if I'm not quoting exactly) and she flipped out. There is no delusion, no distortion in that thinking, it is based in reality. Regardless of if she has a mental illness or not she was living in the same reality based world as you and I live in. When she made her choice, went about planning the murder of her children, it was out of anger (and perhaps control issues?) so while it may not have been rational, "normal" thinking it was not IMO deluded thinking. She gave in to her angry impulses and planned the killing of her children. That's what makes her different than Andrea Yates IMO.

IMO Premeditation requires rational consideration, deliberate intent. Delusions are not rational or deliberate.. and are rarely intentional. I'm not saying she's not mentally ill- chances are she's got something or another but I am just not one of those who thinks mental illness = "insanity". Having been in the past what many consider to be "insane" and continuing to live daily with mental illness I know that there are miles and miles between the two and I don't think the term should be used lightly- it creates stigma and makes people more apt to disbelieve actual "insanity" (like the thousands who doubt Andrea Yates was "insane") as it relates to crime which is very real but pretty rare.

I don't see "insanity" when watching that perp walk I think she looks more like she has Parkinson's disease or some kind of rigidity condition. Her motor skills seem off, she seemed to be having a difficult time just walking, her posture was strange.. her whole body looked to be full of tremors.

anyway jm:twocents:

 

[LCoastMom]

The transfer to KHS may have been because her father attended/graduated from an exclusive private school in our area that has the same IB program. iirc

oops, i was wrong, it is only a college prep school.

Some answers to questions I've come across:

According to the track coach Calyx was in her second year as a varsity runner at King - so IDK where she was before King but as a Sophomore she must have been going to King all along to run for them, right?

The mother's phone call came in at just after 730AM, LE arrived 6 minutes later.

After being booked, Schenecker immediately was taken to the jail's medical ward because of her shaking, sheriff's spokesman Larry McKinnon said. She likely will stay there for a couple of days for observation and then placed in an individual cell to allow closer monitoring.

Was JS moved from the jail's medical ward to county hospital later that night? That's what I'm figuring as I've not heard of a jail having an Intensive Care Unit?

The parents still live in (right outside) the same town where JS was raised - assuming that means both are still alive, this was in the story about JS growing up the "All American Girl".

What a tragedy for all concerned.

RIP Calyx and Beau.

 

[Sleuthster]

You know what though? They were supposed to go to Elizabeth Edward's and people made a human shield. I think I heard only one member went. They were supposed to go to Arizona and never did. I think they're losing. I hope.

They're just saying that they're going to protest at funerals for the publicity now IMO. They haven't really been going to them lately, just running their mouths as usual with nothing but garbage spewing out. Wack jobs IMO.

 

[Sleuthster]

A very touching speech from the Col. It brought tears to my eyes.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/public...r-to-grieving-teens-they-love-you-too/1149233

"Whether you wore some blue or Harry Potter glasses, lit a candle, laid a flower or signed a soccer jersey, you honored my children. Your devoted friend, your classmate, your teammate. The family and I are humbled by your support, grace and overwhelming love for Calyx and Beau. They love you too. Please don't forget how they lived." -- Col. Parker Schenecker

 

[GetSmart]

That is such a "Class Act" Statement .. Wow..
It is so heart breaking isn't it. @ young people that were and would have been assets to the community.. ..with so many Losers that take up space and air.. what a shame..

I saw this article that hit another nerve ..for crying out loud ..
http://www.tampabay.com/news/humani...d-online-sites-are-exploiting-tragedy/1149110

Schenecker family says unauthorized online sites are exploiting tragedy


Early Wednesday, the children's father made a public warning: The family has not yet established a website or fund capable of receiving money.
"Any such website which bears the Schenecker name is unauthorized, misleading, and merely an attempt to exploit this tragedy and deepen the sorrow of a community trying to heal," a statement from Army Col. Parker Schenecker said.

 

[dolphingirl]

I know my passion is evident and anyone that has posted with me here and elsewhere for many years knows how important this issue is to me.

My pet peeve is how it is so dismissed when a mother does something so unimaginably horrible to her children. Mothers are not without guilt anymore than the fathers are. 61% of murdered children are murdered by one of their parents. 31% are biological fathers. 30% are biological mothers. 59% of the time when a child has been neglected/tortured and abused it is done by their biological mother.


I am sorry for all the pain you have gone through.I have read some of your other posts on other crimes and I am usually right in line with your opinion.

I agree 100%. I am a woman and I get sickened with the double standard. Women are just as capable and just as responsible for the crimes they commit. Women can be vicious and depraved as much as men can.

I am very sorry if she has mental issues or drug/alcohol problems. But those 2 kids are gone forever and the husband and grandmother of those children have been shattered. I cant feel sympathy for anyone but them.

JMO

 

[my_tee_mouse]

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/julie-schenecker-warning-signs-parental-rage/story?id=12814782

"Julie Schenecker Case: Making Sense of Unthinkable Violence
After Killings of Children, Debate Over Parental Warning Signs"

 

[SarahW]

I believe JPS was really, really mad.

I think that around the time of the slap & the accident, Calyx had recognized that something was very wrong with JPS. This was successfully conveyed to her father and, by ~New Years, it was 3 against 1 in that family. JPS was put on notice that the others knew she had a serious problem. Her life (especially status in her family), as she had known it, had "ended" with her being exposed. . . .

Vresia - What a brilliant perception/articulation of the underlying emotional drivers of this crime. No matter her disorder, I am persuaded that rage and blame of others for discovering her imperfections and shattering her self image and desired place in the world, are very likely what drove her violent action.

You laid it out so very well!

 

[SarahW]

Was JS moved from the jail's medical ward to county hospital later that night? That's what I'm figuring as I've not heard of a jail having an Intensive Care Unit?

Mu understanding is that JS was moved to the hospital and admitted to the ICU around midnight.

When she was released, I am speculating that she was sent back to the infirmary for the lowest cost management of her medical issues.

 

[pip]

I believe JPS was really, really mad.

I think that around the time of the slap & the accident, Calyx had recognized that something was very wrong with JPS. This was successfully conveyed to her father and, by ~New Years, it was 3 against 1 in that family. JPS was put on notice that the others knew she had a serious problem. Her life (especially status in her family), as she had known it, had "ended" with her being exposed.

The family dynamics were radically changed & JPS attributed this to her "mouthy kids". I think "mouthy kids" was a shorthand for what "ended" her life. I think she blamed her intelligent, articulate teens for verbalizing forbidden perceptions (like her substance abuse and it's consequences).

I think that by the time JPS got the gun and began writing her twisted thoughts, she saw her life as essentially over. She was the walking dead, beyond hopelessness but still smouldering with rage & blame at those she held responsible. She believed & accepted that there was no way out for her. It was just a matter of officially ending it & taking with her the ones she blamed.

Right now, I am convinced JPS intended to commit suicide. I don't know why she didn't.

Great insight, great post. I haven't posted here in awhile but have been following this very tragic story. I too believe it was a rage fueled act, triggered by a shift in family dynamics, as you put it a 3 against 1 situation calling her out on her issues. I also suspect that this was just the straw that 'broke the camels back', and that underlying that was an anger related to her loss of status/respect in career or station in life. It seems the kids idolized their father, as Beau said he wanted to go into the military and be 'just like his dad'. I bet JPS felt resentful towards the husband as he was still world traveling, high ranking military, as she once was, and now she felt 'demoted' to stay at home motherhood with (normal) 'mouthy' teens. She felt she got no respect yet he got a lot of respect. The anger she felt towards her husband, and self loathing was misdirected towards her children.
Very sad.
OneLostGirl's siggy line really lends meaning in this case, IMO.
"The only person you are destined to become is the person you decide to be"

If being a carpool driving, stay at home mom was making her miserable, she could have made other choices for her life.

 

[SarahW]

Sure is food for thought.


I don't see "insanity" when watching that perp walk I think she looks more like she has Parkinson's disease or some kind of rigidity condition. Her motor skills seem off, she seemed to be having a difficult time just walking, her posture was strange.. her whole body looked to be full of tremors.

anyway jm:twocents:

Thank you for sharing your experience of what mental illness is like and how you think it relates to this crime.

The kind of psychosis here, if any, is indeed of a different nature than that of Yates. Clearly she was not thinking in normal fashion about solutions to life's difficulties, but her disordered thinking is apparently on a different level.

That said, the physical illness (resulting from whatever natural or self-inflicted cause) you and I both suspect may be associated (as with Parkinson's) with altered cognition, and changes in impulse control, with increased agitation, irritability, and/or aggression.

That is, the tools our brain possesses to dampen emotion and reaction are busted - perceptions are impaired, and emotions abnormally intense or absent. Parkinson's, which you mentioned, can by itself or as result of medication cause very serious cognitive and emotional problems and unusual impulses and aggression.

The TD symptoms or extrapyrimidal symptoms are intriguing because they point to organic brain damage and use of substances that can damage the brain in other ways - producing an "emotional dyskinesia", ie. malfunctioning related to the disease affecting perception and mood.

One could analogize it to two cars, "healthy car" and "beater car" at the top of a hill getting pushed from behind. The conscious driver in the healthy car knows ways to slow and control the descent. There are checks on the movement of the car. Putting the car into a new gear, or applying brakes, or the emergency brake prevent a dangerous race downhill.

The driver of the beater car may be impaired or confused an make mistakes trying to deal with the crash. The brakes aren't working as they should and aren't going to. The driver may have a stuck accelerator, even. This roll downhill is nearly unstoppable.

Facing this loss of control, the driver might even choose to hasten the crash, thinking, I hate this car, I hate my passengers laughing at my car; this is impossible to bear. I am going to roll it down hill and crash in that wall and that will end my humiliation. Plus that husband who was too rough with this car can enjoy watching the consequences. See what he did to us?

I may despair, but I control my fate!

 

[Track292008]

Perhaps Julie's drinking was exacerbated by some pain medication she received at the hospital after the automobile accident last fall, especially if she found a way to continue taking the medicine (legally or illegally) while drinking as well.

Perhaps her husband took over her carpool duties after the accident because he knew she was on pain meds, and then -- after the initial prescription/s ran out, and her pain level improved, he assumed she was no longer taking the pain meds. If she was given prescription renewals, he would not have known because of privacy laws (unless she told him, which I doubt).

Just another possibility....

 

[Vresia]

Perhaps Julie's drinking was exacerbated by some pain medication she received at the hospital after the automobile accident last fall, especially if she found a way to continue taking the medicine (legally or illegally) while drinking as well.

Perhaps her husband took over her carpool duties after the accident because he knew she was on pain meds, and then -- after the initial prescription/s ran out, and her pain level improved, he assumed she was no longer taking the pain meds. If she was given prescription renewals, he would not have known because of privacy laws (unless she told him, which I doubt).

That's an interesting thought about pain meds from the accident exacerbating her existing substance abuse issues.

I think that JPS' problems were long standing and dated back to long before the slapping & accident. Litig8r posted a link to an examiner article that had some interesting info from an anonymous source of JPS'

...A source close to the investigation said...that Julie Schenecker reportedly has history of mental illness and has been treated for depression on several occasions in the last 10 years.

http://www.examiner.com/media-cultu...schencker-plan-to-kill-suicide-foiled-by-cops

Perhaps her pre-existing illness was psychiatric and not neurologic.

 

[Track292008]

http://www.examiner.com/media-cultu...schencker-plan-to-kill-suicide-foiled-by-cops [/SIZE]

Perhaps her pre-existing illness was psychiatric and not neurologic.

Thanks, Vresia. I did not realize until I read this article that Julie had consumed enough medicine to have caused her death, and was only kept alive because of her mother's phone call to the police. Also I had not heard about the waiting period before she was allowed to pick up the gun.

With periods of depression-- and perhaps other signs of mental illness -- having been treated for 10 years or so, combined with the recent events prior to the "massacre," it becomes increasingly hard to come up with a reason why her condition was not more closely monitored, why there was no intervention that might have led to her hospitalization and thereby prevented this tragedy.

Re: the cigarette butts: Her children were probably on her case constantly -- for years -- about her smoking; that's what kids do these days and it motivates many parents to quit smoking, I believe.

 

[Pensfan]

Early reports said she was taken tom the hospital because of her uncontrolled "shaking"; then later that she was transferred to the hospital for a (and I detected some emphasis here) "pre existing medical condition" - wording meant to imply that nothing officers or she did resulted in her hospitalization.

I certainly agree that she was exhibiting signs of an extrapyramidal syndrome, possibly acute - PROBABLY acute based on the lack of any remarks on such by persons who had seen her as recently as that week.

however, I am leaning towards those perp walk symptoms as not being caused by a large dose of Thorazine. One reason is the emphasis placed on the "preexisitng" shaking...and her history post car crash of having dilated pupils and a mush mouth. I'm thinking she might have Parkinson's... Diagnosed or undiagnosed... With symptoms perhaps exacerbated by medication.

(I am a verified psych nurse on Websleuths.) This woman is exhibiting EPS.
Thorazine is the drug of choice for one time doses needed to control out-of-control patients. Thorazine is frequently used in conjunction with straitjackets to decrease the amount of physical restraint needed to control or transport the patient. This woman appeared to be wearing a straitjacket upon leaving with LE.

None of the frequently used methods to quickly OD (as opposed to ODing on Tylenol and having liver failure) would have any affect upon Parkinson's tremors because Parkinson's tremors are related to lowered dopamine levels. Opioids, benzos plus opioids or alcohol, and alcohol plus any of these do not affect dopamine levels. In fact there have been studies showing there may be alterations in opioid receptor binding in Parkinson's disease.

On NG last night, a reporter stated that the mom was found sleeping near her pool. This mom may have been catatonic which is extremely different from "taking a little nap".

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Thanks, Vresia. I did not realize until I read this article that Julie had consumed enough medicine to have caused her death, and was only kept alive because of her mother's phone call to the police. Also I had not heard about the waiting period before she was allowed to pick up the gun.

With periods of depression-- and perhaps other signs of mental illness -- having been treated for 10 years or so, combined with the recent events prior to the "massacre," it becomes increasingly hard to come up with a reason why her condition was not more closely monitored, why there was no intervention that might have led to her hospitalization and thereby prevented this tragedy.

Re: the cigarette butts: Her children were probably on her case constantly -- for years -- about her smoking; that's what kids do these days and it motivates many parents to quit smoking, I believe.

Or maybe the depression/mental issue is being overblown. Many are treated for depression but aren't plotting out the double murder of their children. She not only premediated all of this..but she calmly waited until she could obtain the firearm she needed.

So I am reluctant to believe her mental issues rose to this level where she would be declared mentally insane when she murdered her children.

I did read an article this morning about some mothers who have uncontrollable rage and resentment against their children and simply do not like them... even though they know they are suppose to....

I do not believe she was an out of control woman all this time. The father IMO is too sensitive to the needs of his children. He would have never left his children with this woman if he remotely thought she would murder them, imo.

So I think there will be a tape showing her during the gun purchase transaction and she will be as calm and 'normal' as anyone. The gun shop owner never would have let her purchase a gun if he thought she was unbalanced.

IMO

 

[SarahW]

Perhaps her pre-existing illness was psychiatric and not neurologic.

Yes, though in truth they are not only not mutually exclusive, but generally overlap... (aside from so-called "psychiatric" illnesses that are clearly organic disease.)

With that new information, her motor control issues seem now more likely be related to medication used to treat her mental illness. One awful thing is that the medicine that causes the damage also suppresses symptoms of TD- if the medication is stopped the symptoms can go mad. FWIW, there are papers on the association of TD with depression.