FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #10

Status
Not open for further replies.
dearmont, I stood next to the palm tree where the suspect is pictured and estimated height of tree.

I appreciate you taking a hard look at the blowups. I don't believe artifacts in the perfect shape of a holster with thigh straps and a baton at every level of brightness and darkness, with exact same marking on his neck in both stills, and shoulder patch in still two and deputy badge in still three can be random, but you're not the only one who dismisses it, so I appreciate your opinion.

Also in still three his face is very clear with sunglasses and bike helmet where he has turned back to look at Jennifer's car he just parked.

And yes, the resolution was horrible and it took me unending hours of work with the pictures enlarging and adjusting brightness and contrast and examining pixel by pixel. I would have expected at least one random artifact not to be that of a bike patrol security guard as I have pictured on the page, a pictured security guard that took me months of searching to find, that corroborates the precise security guard uniform and equipment that I had found and described.

Nevertheless, I do not expect anything to ever come of it since professionals believe it's not possible to see what they didn't see.

Thanks again, and your suggestion is a good one.

rd
 
but you're not the only one who dismisses it, so I appreciate your opinion.

Nevertheless, I do not expect anything to ever come of it since professionals believe it's not possible to see what they didn't see.

Thanks again, and your suggestion is a good one.

rd

Please, let me very clear, I am not dismissing what you have done, nor the conclusions you have reached. I encourage you to continue on this track on investigation - all angles must be carefully explored in this case - in 3 years the investigation is no futher along than day 1 - anything is plausible at this point I think.
 
They could have replaced the palm tree with a smaller variety by the gate because it obscured the vision in the photo. Just saying...
 
I think a way to determine height would have been reinactment right after. They could have just reinacted over and over until they got a segment of a person seeming the same distance and height as in the video. Just like in other cases. ex. I just saw a show that they reinacted the impact of a crash with a dummy wearing glasses to see if it was possible the glasses would stay on or not.
 
IMO, This would have been something they were very capable of and should have known to do. In this pic
surv1.bmp

they could have reinacted until they got the right distance (matching a person placed same foot<---->curb), then reinacted using that distance with maybe a pole until they had a segment that the pole was the same height as the POI.
To me this would have been the instant, logical thing to do.
 
One other thing is I cannot believe they would have not had any other leads from the car. Anything from finger prints to something rubbed off from the bottom of shoes, bottom of car, etc. I believe I read they checked seat position, but what about rear view mirrors position?
 
SS, somewhere in all the early video links I remember the interview with the neighbor lady who was walking her dog that morning. She made a statement to the press that she did not see Jennifer that morning and her car was gone.

Wherever that car was that morning it was not in Jennifer's parking spot according to this lady.

Was it hidden in one of the many garages at the complex and driven over to HOTG by a worker on his lunch break or was it taken off the property early that morning?

LE collected the film from businesses up and around the area and we don't know if they discovered her car on that film being driven by the suspect. They have never said.

As for the suspect's height. I believe the measurement of 5'3-5'5 is correct.

I have personally observed foot traffic in that area on my many visits to that neighborhood and that measurement is typical of what I saw.

~

I am not saying the person isnt that short, but honestly I do not believe many places have foot traffic that the average male is 5'3-5'5. That is odd, are you aware how short that is.
 
Unfortunately, I don’t have any data on the measurements of the landmarks at HOTG so I’ve done a little non-really scientific analysis on the estimated height of the POI based on the estimated stride of the POI and it would appear that this person is really short – very doubtful that they are more than 5’3” tall. I base this on some known and accepted averages on human stride.
attachment.php




A person walking at a normal speed and cadence will cover 120 steps/min. If the camera at HOTG took images once every 3 seconds, which would suggest the POI took about 6 steps between images.

A person’s average stride is about 54”, which translates to about 3 steps. There is a formula that states:

Person’s height x 0.415 = stride therefore stride/3 = length of step.

So, if the POI was 5’10” (70”) the stride would be 70x 0.415 = 29”. Step size would be 29/3 = 9.5” – conclusion – in six steps this person would have been well past the gatepost and their face could have been seen.

If the person was just 5’ (60”) the stride would be 60 x 0.415 = 24.9”. Step = 24.9/3 = 8.3” – conclusion – in six steps this person would not have passed the gatepost at that point. My feeling is that this person is a little taller than 5’ – but not by much!

Calculations done based on information from these sources:
http://education.ti.com/educationportal/activityexchange/activity_detail.do?cid=us&activityid=6369

http://www.univie.ac.at/cga/courses/be522/tsp.html

http://walking.about.com/cs/pedometers/a/pedometerset.htm

I usually check this thread, daily. I don't know how I missed this post. Did everyone else notice the person is the POI? How did you get that, did you have to add anything to the image?
Can you post just the POI there for us, IMO that could be used for pics titled Person Of Interest.
 
Ok I was thinking about this today. I think the POI is someone who lived in the area. I think the person dropped off her car and got back on their bike. I wonder where the first bike rack or etc. would be in the direction the POI was walking in. So where was her car before? I would like to know where the first cameras are located going in both directions upon leaving the complex.
 
I am not saying the person isnt that short, but honestly I do not believe many places have foot traffic that the average male is 5'3-5'5. That is odd, are you aware how short that is.
LOL Yes. I notice it every day when I have to reach something. ;)
 
Website for Jennifer K: has poi listed as 5'3'' to 5'5''.

IMO: I see a thin, slightly built, short, man with a long stride. It seems like he has a very short haircut.
He is dressed in what appears to me are khaki pants, white t shirt, and dark shoes, not boots.
Jennifer is 5'8'' and 125 lbs.
She is at least 3 inches taller than the poi.
When she was abducted, were there two people involved? In order to subdue her?
Because even if poi had a stun gun or fast acting medication, he could never get her to a car alone.

As to 'who' it could be, besides a construction worker:
her brother and friends were in her condo when she was gone on vacation.
Who knows how many people came in and out of her home while she was away.
It would have been probably fairly easy for a person to get a copy of her house key.

Or it could be someone had stalked her: a coworker, someone she saw daily, on the way to work, getting coffee, at the gym.

Most crimes committed by a person in their 'comfort zone.'
 
Website for Jennifer K: has poi listed as 5'3'' to 5'5''.

IMO: I see a thin, slightly built, short, man with a long stride. It seems like he has a very short haircut.
He is dressed in what appears to me are khaki pants, white t shirt, and dark shoes, not boots.
Jennifer is 5'8'' and 125 lbs.
She is at least 3 inches taller than the poi.
When she was abducted, were there two people involved? In order to subdue her?
Because even if poi had a stun gun or fast acting medication, he could never get her to a car alone.

As to 'who' it could be, besides a construction worker:
her brother and friends were in her condo when she was gone on vacation.
Who knows how many people came in and out of her home while she was away.
It would have been probably fairly easy for a person to get a copy of her house key.

Or it could be someone had stalked her: a coworker, someone she saw daily, on the way to work, getting coffee, at the gym.

Most crimes committed by a person in their 'comfort zone.'

I respectfully disagree...the POI could have easily abducted her by himself! Most kidnappings are done by ONE person. With or without a weapon. Some crimes happen in broad daylight....An abduction only takes a few seconds! Anything is possible! The weapons you mentioned above would make it even easier! MOO
 
Some quick thoughts on recent comments:

regarding the FBI being involved with the height determination - IIRC Orlando police said they sent info to FBI concerning their height measurement methodolgy and got a blessing. It was the Orlando police doing it, we saw it in the news video. So any implications that crack FBI experts did this and therefore must be right are wrong.

regarding the police using a methodology where the person matches up in picture - they sorta did that, in a sad pathetic way. The news video showed a short woman, the spokeswoman Barbara Jones if I'm not mistaken, playing the part of the suspect in the measurement.

They further had her hunched over like the Hunchback of Notre Dame in the measurement, as if a short height was not enough. This apparently from their belief that the suspect was hunched over, this apparently stemming from the curved back in the picture. I obviously consider this ludicrous.

They further had her hunched over with big strides if I saw the video correctly. It's been awhile, but it was so pathetic it made a lasting impression on me, and not a pretty one.

So what does all this mean? It means that if you believe the suspect was a short person hunched over, then that's what you stick out there and voila!, hunch proven, so to speak.

regarding expert analysis of pictures - I will tell you the only expert analysis I saw reported, this being a person the police requested to examine the suspect's head (which really needs examining, but I digress). The conclusion of the expert was reported as could be hat or hair, man or woman, they don't know.

There's your expert picture analysis, revel in it.

regarding shoe size - the police wouldn't be able to estimate a shoe size because the shoe is grossly oversized in relation to the body. Now I'll be the first to admit that my initial impression, and what I posted at the time, it's still up but I posted a different opinion after several intense hours of study, was that it looked like a woman to me with hair in a bun and possibly wearing man sized shoes to throw investigators off on footprints. Tha's the best I could come up with because those were practically clown sized shoes.

However, after several hours and some postings of bike helmets among other things to compare to, I could see the curvature in the back that matches a bike helmet. And the overall shape was just too perfectly rounded to be hair in a bun instead of a helmet.

It was with much more study that I came to the conclusion that there is curvature in the lens, and portions of the picture are magnified as on the edge of a magnifying glass. The shoes are in that area of curvature I believe.

regarding wearing a tshirt - while the picture certainly looks like a tshirt, it is almost a certainty it isn't. The picture detail hints at it. The markings on the back are so solid as to make the shirt probably solid covered. The picture looks like the shirt is short sleeved, but in fact the arms cannot be seen and it is indeterminable whether the shirt is short or long sleeved. The baton in the back looks like a rigidly straight short sleeved arm extended back as if marching from a distance, but it is a baton, not his arm.

More importantly, it was January. While reasonably comfy at noon in the sun, Jennifer was abducted before 8am and this suspect would be travelling around, and it wouldn't be in a tshirt. Also while plenty of bike patrol uniforms have a short sleeved jersey, I see the level of insignia and a badge that would make this a dark colored uniform shirt as pictured in the security guard photo I posted with the blowups.

regarding lack of detail in the picture - I reject the notion that the pictures are lacking in detail. In fact, they are amazingly detailed considering that people keep saying they aren't. I see everything I expect to see concerning fence, gate, back of sign, car, tree, and on and on, and no false images, in other words, I don't see a holster or baton or police insignia anywhere else in the picture, or a teddy bear, or anything else that would make you go hmmm.... nope, everything is pictured perfectly. So this stuff about can't be anything there instead of looking at what's there is I think a major failure in this investigation.

regarding overcoming a victim in an assault - I believe the suspect is pictured wearing a taser holster in still two, and gripping the taser pointed straight ahead waist high in still one, which is why it's not seen in the holster. Regarding detail of the holster, I can see the beveled edges of the belt snap for the thigh rig holster, with the strap coming down and forward to the holster from the belt. It is extremely detailed. However I do not see a handle of a gun or taser in the holster.

And certainly a victim will be quickly overcome by a taser, the police do it everyday.

regarding where the suspect is going - drumstick mentioned above a number of police imposters who are or have been assaulting women. One was captured recently in the general area of Orlando where Jennifer lived. Due to some good posting work by others, I'm aware of the arrest of the imposter and that he was a security guard for a company a couple of roads down from Conroy, across from Universal Studios.

I have posted from the beginning, after determining the suspect was wearing a biking helmet and biking shoes, that the suspect likely took a bus down Texas, or over Americana to Orange Blossom and down that road. When I visited the scene of the crime there was a sheltered bus stop catty corner from the Huntingdon at the corner of Texas and Americana.

Why did I think that? Because he either needed to live close by, or have an accomplice pick him up, or take a bus, or take a cab. And of course most think he walked back to Jennifer's complex. Believing he is wearing an armed security guard bike patrol uniform, I do not think he walked back to the Mosaic condos because I don't think he lived there or was driving a car. (and yes, I know about the dog.)

Granted, I also don't know why the heck an imposter would choose a bike patrol uniform either.

I'll also be the first to admit that while I found a security guard uniform and equipment from one Hollywood - Fort Lauderdale security guard company that closed a year after Jennifer disappeared, in the midst of some state actions on their licensing, that uniform and equipment is extremely rare for bike patrol. That is what saddens me the most.

We should have been able to identify the source of the uniform and equipment pictured, we should have been able to rule in or out any legitimate security guard company that used that uniform, and any former employees who might have had access to one and kept it, and got cooperation from the supplier of the uniform and equipment, as much as was sold together, on what individuals may have purchased it outside of a security guard purchase process. It's rare enough that all that could have been done quickly. But nothing but does anyone remember a 5'3" gangbanger wearing a bandanna (implied) walking through Huntingon on the Green ever came about.

I also would have loved to get a hold of the make and model of the surveillance camera and experimented with it, but despite asking several times no one seems to have any info on it. Why would the police withhold that information? I can tell you we'd know in a heatbeat what's going on with those photos if we did.

For example, the police spokewoman said that the dark police uniforms showed up light in the camera, yet no one ever mentions that. They just keep talking about white tshirts and light colored pants, even though we know full well that the camera shows dark uniforms as light. Why? I don't know.

It's like spittin in the wind or banging your head on that brick wall beyond the fence, a brick wall you can see in detail quite clearly by the way with no artifacts. Artifacts apparently only exist on the suspect for some reason in the shape of law enforcement gear.

rd
 
The image is very clear at the gate. If it is so clear then why can't I see anything you are talking about being on the shirt or this baton, tazer, etc.? I should be able to see those things just like I am looking at the sharpness of his shoes, the gate, and everything else.

I will have to go back and find it now, but I read they were mistaken about the clothes being dark instead of light colored. LE did say they were reversed, but recanted it, IIRC.

Again, I disagree about the headgear. I believe it is a rolled black type cap similar to this one: http://www.allheartchefs.com/cvbeanie.html
 
Back in the old days we had black and white tv's. We also had brightness and contrast knobs. We frequently adjusted them to see the picture better. There's a reason for that. Might have been before your time when everything is done automagically for you.

There is also a reason detectives used magnifying glasses back in the old days. Same reason you see enlarged photos when someone is analyzing pictures.

Enlarge the images and adjust the brightness of these pictures, and you will get the same pictures I have posted, and you will see in crisp clear detail everything I describe, also in great detail.

Sure if you squint your eyes and look at the picture from a distance, the detail is too obscured to make out.

But we've had this conversation before, and those who believe I was distorting the image when I adjusted the brightness and contrast on my black and white tv to see the picture better will say I am distorting the image now instead of seeing it better.

I'm glad people at least knew enough to be able to adjust brightness and contrast back then.

rd
 
Some quick thoughts on recent comments:

regarding the FBI being involved with the height determination - IIRC Orlando police said they sent info to FBI concerning their height measurement methodolgy and got a blessing. It was the Orlando police doing it, we saw it in the news video. So any implications that crack FBI experts did this and therefore must be right are wrong.

regarding the police using a methodology where the person matches up in picture - they sorta did that, in a sad pathetic way. The news video showed a short woman, the spokeswoman Barbara Jones if I'm not mistaken, playing the part of the suspect in the measurement.

They further had her hunched over like the Hunchback of Notre Dame in the measurement, as if a short height was not enough. This apparently from their belief that the suspect was hunched over, this apparently stemming from the curved back in the picture. I obviously consider this ludicrous.

They further had her hunched over with big strides if I saw the video correctly. It's been awhile, but it was so pathetic it made a lasting impression on me, and not a pretty one.

So what does all this mean? It means that if you believe the suspect was a short person hunched over, then that's what you stick out there and voila!, hunch proven, so to speak.

regarding expert analysis of pictures - I will tell you the only expert analysis I saw reported, this being a person the police requested to examine the suspect's head (which really needs examining, but I digress). The conclusion of the expert was reported as could be hat or hair, man or woman, they don't know.

There's your expert picture analysis, revel in it.

regarding shoe size - the police wouldn't be able to estimate a shoe size because the shoe is grossly oversized in relation to the body. Now I'll be the first to admit that my initial impression, and what I posted at the time, it's still up but I posted a different opinion after several intense hours of study, was that it looked like a woman to me with hair in a bun and possibly wearing man sized shoes to throw investigators off on footprints. Tha's the best I could come up with because those were practically clown sized shoes.

However, after several hours and some postings of bike helmets among other things to compare to, I could see the curvature in the back that matches a bike helmet. And the overall shape was just too perfectly rounded to be hair in a bun instead of a helmet.

It was with much more study that I came to the conclusion that there is curvature in the lens, and portions of the picture are magnified as on the edge of a magnifying glass. The shoes are in that area of curvature I believe.

regarding wearing a tshirt - while the picture certainly looks like a tshirt, it is almost a certainty it isn't. The picture detail hints at it. The markings on the back are so solid as to make the shirt probably solid covered. The picture looks like the shirt is short sleeved, but in fact the arms cannot be seen and it is indeterminable whether the shirt is short or long sleeved. The baton in the back looks like a rigidly straight short sleeved arm extended back as if marching from a distance, but it is a baton, not his arm.

More importantly, it was January. While reasonably comfy at noon in the sun, Jennifer was abducted before 8am and this suspect would be travelling around, and it wouldn't be in a tshirt. Also while plenty of bike patrol uniforms have a short sleeved jersey, I see the level of insignia and a badge that would make this a dark colored uniform shirt as pictured in the security guard photo I posted with the blowups.

regarding lack of detail in the picture - I reject the notion that the pictures are lacking in detail. In fact, they are amazingly detailed considering that people keep saying they aren't. I see everything I expect to see concerning fence, gate, back of sign, car, tree, and on and on, and no false images, in other words, I don't see a holster or baton or police insignia anywhere else in the picture, or a teddy bear, or anything else that would make you go hmmm.... nope, everything is pictured perfectly. So this stuff about can't be anything there instead of looking at what's there is I think a major failure in this investigation.

regarding overcoming a victim in an assault - I believe the suspect is pictured wearing a taser holster in still two, and gripping the taser pointed straight ahead waist high in still one, which is why it's not seen in the holster. Regarding detail of the holster, I can see the beveled edges of the belt snap for the thigh rig holster, with the strap coming down and forward to the holster from the belt. It is extremely detailed. However I do not see a handle of a gun or taser in the holster.

And certainly a victim will be quickly overcome by a taser, the police do it everyday.

regarding where the suspect is going - drumstick mentioned above a number of police imposters who are or have been assaulting women. One was captured recently in the general area of Orlando where Jennifer lived. Due to some good posting work by others, I'm aware of the arrest of the imposter and that he was a security guard for a company a couple of roads down from Conroy, across from Universal Studios.

I have posted from the beginning, after determining the suspect was wearing a biking helmet and biking shoes, that the suspect likely took a bus down Texas, or over Americana to Orange Blossom and down that road. When I visited the scene of the crime there was a sheltered bus stop catty corner from the Huntingdon at the corner of Texas and Americana.

Why did I think that? Because he either needed to live close by, or have an accomplice pick him up, or take a bus, or take a cab. And of course most think he walked back to Jennifer's complex. Believing he is wearing an armed security guard bike patrol uniform, I do not think he walked back to the Mosaic condos because I don't think he lived there or was driving a car. (and yes, I know about the dog.)

Granted, I also don't know why the heck an imposter would choose a bike patrol uniform either.

I'll also be the first to admit that while I found a security guard uniform and equipment from one Hollywood - Fort Lauderdale security guard company that closed a year after Jennifer disappeared, in the midst of some state actions on their licensing, that uniform and equipment is extremely rare for bike patrol. That is what saddens me the most.

We should have been able to identify the source of the uniform and equipment pictured, we should have been able to rule in or out any legitimate security guard company that used that uniform, and any former employees who might have had access to one and kept it, and got cooperation from the supplier of the uniform and equipment, as much as was sold together, on what individuals may have purchased it outside of a security guard purchase process. It's rare enough that all that could have been done quickly. But nothing but does anyone remember a 5'3" gangbanger wearing a bandanna (implied) walking through Huntingon on the Green ever came about.

I also would have loved to get a hold of the make and model of the surveillance camera and experimented with it, but despite asking several times no one seems to have any info on it. Why would the police withhold that information? I can tell you we'd know in a heatbeat what's going on with those photos if we did.

For example, the police spokewoman said that the dark police uniforms showed up light in the camera, yet no one ever mentions that. They just keep talking about white tshirts and light colored pants, even though we know full well that the camera shows dark uniforms as light. Why? I don't know.

It's like spittin in the wind or banging your head on that brick wall beyond the fence, a brick wall you can see in detail quite clearly by the way with no artifacts. Artifacts apparently only exist on the suspect for some reason in the shape of law enforcement gear.

rd



I don't see a baton, tazer, or bike helmet in these photos. I could be wrong...None of us know for sure. However, I would think that someone ditching a car after an abduction would be trying to act as normal as possible and not DRAW ATTENTION to himself. So why on earth would he ditch the car and walk down the street in a bike helmet, with a taser belt, and carrying a baton? That would definitely draw attention. IMO the POI is wearing some sort of hat not a helmet. The top of it looks too flat to be a helmet.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
97
Guests online
2,368
Total visitors
2,465

Forum statistics

Threads
593,909
Messages
17,995,390
Members
229,276
Latest member
SeymourMann
Back
Top