FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #5

[CatLynnette]

BTW using CatLynette's scenario, especially with the perpetrator behind JK with a gun, it makes it even easier for them to drive past the guard at the gate.
If the guard wasn't even looking Jennifer couldn't have even 'mouthed' the word help.

I like Cat's scenario, everything fits.
So who and where is the perpetrator?

With this scenario it even explains why nobody recognized the suspect from the security camera photos from when he had walked to the Mosiac earlier that morning. He had the opportunity to change his clothes before dropping off Jennifer's car at the Huntington On The Green. The suspect was most likely dressed differently when he walked to the Mosaic earlier that morning at the time of the abduction.

If the scenario that my husband and I came up with is correct then the suspect would definitely not be a Mosaic resident or a Mosaic worker. The suspect would have needed to know Jennifer's address, including the exact building. This was definitely not a carjacking because the suspect wasn't interested in keeping Jennifer's car and most likely it wasn't a robbery either. In my opinion, the suspect was only interested in Jennifer. The abduction of Jennifer was premeditated, in my opinion.

The amount of gas in Jennifer's car, from when it was found, seems to indicate that her car wasn't driven very far that morning. The gas tank in Jennifer's car was about half full, which police indicated was about right for a drive from Fort Lauderdale to Ocoee and then back home to the Mosaic. I seriously have my doubts that the suspect went to a gas station and put gas in Jennifer's car. There is a chance that the suspect took Jennifer to his own apartment/condo/house. Who knew Jennifer and resides only a short distance from the Mosaic? These are the people who Law Enforcement should be looking at.

In viewing the security camera footage, the broad shoulders, large feet and long stride while walking seem to suggest that the suspect is a male.

I hope this is not taken the wrong way, however, if my scenario is correct, then the suspect's own vehicle wouldn't have been an expensive type. The Huntington On The Green Condominiums is not in an upper class, expensive neighborhood. If the suspect's vehicle was an expensive type it would have been noticed and remembered since it would have been parked at Huntington On The Green for at least four and a half hours. The suspect's vehicle must have fit in with the other vehicles parked there.

Just my own opinion

 

[UK Sleuth]

Left

I know nothing about tracker dogs however do we know on what basis the dog was supposedly not tracking correctly?

What I don't get is what are the chances of the dog tracking back to JKs stair well if it was tracking wrong?

Isnt that a fantastic coincidence the dog could have gone anywhere surely?

Or am I being dense?

 

[leftcoast]

Left

I know nothing about tracker dogs however do we know on what basis the dog was supposedly not tracking correctly?

What I don't get is what are the chances of the dog tracking back to JKs stair well if it was tracking wrong?

Isnt that a fantastic coincidence the dog could have gone anywhere surely?

Or am I being dense?

No, I totally agree with you UK

I don't know who started the rumor about the dog not tracking properly.

Some people on the internet, pretend to be experts on everything, and start rumors.

I've never heard OPD say the dog was not tracking properly

That dog could have gone in any direction, heck,. the most likely was to an apartment at HOTG, yet, he pulled the handler back to Mosaic.

If that dog made the same trek around the pool fence, and back to Mosaic, my money is on the dog.

LIke I've said, maybe, LE didn't want the dog information getting out, so, someone started a rumor about it.

If dogs were worthless, customs wouldn't have them at each and every airport.

left

 

[CatLynnette]

Regarding the security cameras at Huntington On The Green Condominiums, I am sure that most people wouldn't notice the cameras mounted within the peaks of the roof of the pool house. The security camera within the window of the side of the pool house is even more difficult to notice.

The signs, which indicate in writing about the security cameras, are on the two gates of the fence surrounding the pool. If the suspect parked his own vehicle on the opposite side of the pool and buildings and closest to Americana he could have used a different entrance into Huntington On The Green which was from Americana. The suspect probably used the Texas Avenue entrance when parking Jennifer's car. The first time the suspect saw the gate sign regarding security cameras could have been when he was walking past the pool gate to retrieve his own vehicle located in the parking lot at Huntington On The Green next to Americana, which was in the direction he was walking.

Just my own opinion

 

[UK Sleuth]

No, I totally agree with you UK

I don't know who started the rumor about the dog not tracking properly.

Some people on the internet, pretend to be experts on everything, and start rumors.

I've never heard OPD say the dog was not tracking properly

That dog could have gone in any direction, heck,. the most likely was to an apartment at HOTG, yet, he pulled the handler back to Mosaic.

If that dog made the same trek around the pool fence, and back to Mosaic, my money is on the dog.

LIke I've said, maybe, LE didn't want the dog information getting out, so, someone started a rumor about it.

If dogs were worthless, customs wouldn't have them at each and every airport.

left

Thanks for clearing that up could never really work that out.

In that case I would go 200% with the dog being correct therefore we could say we 'know' as well as we can know that the poi went back to mosaic.

The next question is why?

4 possibilities I think.(please add more!)

1) He had to because of work or residence.
2) JK was still there, somewhere.
3) To rob the place but got scared off by the commotion
4) To collect his vehicle or bicycle or whatever

I would discount 3 as it doesnt appear to be a robbery, he did not attempt to use her cards and seemingly had a reasonable period of time to do so.

I also don't fancy 4 either who would leave their vehicle or bicycle in the vicinity of an abduction, first off LE could swarm the place take photos etc(3 is based on the pot not being a resident)

Talk about leave a huge clue, I'm still of the opinion the poi didnt have a vehicle of any kind but again it is only my opinion not fact.

I certainly don't think they had a car because if they had I can see no reason whatsoever to involve JKs car and expose yourself.

This leaves options 1 or 2 in my opinion.

 

[leftcoast]

Hate to bring this up, but I must.

Anybody think this could just be a random, Denis Radar type of thing.?

Remember, Radar would use the victims car to avoid his car being seen on the premises.

Radar would cut the phone line, carry a duffel bag with a kit, and actually do recon. on his target.

Sure, Radar left the victims behind, but, with DNA, the scum of today are changing their practices.

Sorry to bring it up, I know it isn't a pleasant thought, but maybe it applies here.

left

 

[UK Sleuth]

Regarding the security cameras at Huntington On The Green Condominiums, I am sure that most people wouldn't notice the cameras mounted within the peaks of the roof of the pool house. The security camera within the window of the side of the pool house is even more difficult to notice.

The signs, which indicate in writing about the security cameras, are on the two gates of the fence surrounding the pool. If the suspect parked his own vehicle on the opposite side of the pool and buildings and closest to Americana he could have used a different entrance into Huntington On The Green which was from Americana. The suspect probably used the Texas Avenue entrance when parking Jennifer's car. The first time the suspect saw the gate sign regarding security cameras could have been when he was walking past the pool gate to retrieve his own vehicle located in the parking lot at Huntington On The Green next to Americana, which was in the direction he was walking.

Just my own opinion

Cat

Thanks for the info clearly you have been to the scene and know a lot more of the logistics than me, heck Im on a different continent.

What is your take on it being planned yet the CCTV?

What I'm saying is planned to me means a proper reconnaisance mission, a dry run as it were.

Surely if HOTG was the base then you would checck the place for cameras in advance or maybe you think our poi isnt that bright just lucky?

Planned crimes such as bank robberies tend not to go full circle like this they tend to start at point A go to B rob bank go to C then end up at D using different vehicles along the way to break any leads to follow up.

Using HOTG as the place to park your car and then dump JKs to get yours seems to dangerous to me in a 'planned' crime you are completing the circle by literally almost parking Jks car next to yours(the same applies by leaving your vehicle at Mosaic in the morning)

This is why I still think this may not be so planned certainly not meticulously anyway.

 

[UK Sleuth]

Hate to bring this up, but I must.

Anybody think this could just be a random, Denis Radar type of thing.?

Remember, Radar would use the victims car to avoid his car being seen on the premises.

Radar would cut the phone line, carry a duffel bag with a kit, and actually do recon. on his target.

Sure, Radar left the victims behind, but, with DNA, the scum of today are changing their practices.

Sorry to bring it up, I know it isn't a pleasant thought, but maybe it applies here.

left

A definite possibility left however whats your take on it being as soon as she has returned from hols, they would have to have intimate knowledge of her schedule?

 

[CatLynnette]

Cat

Thanks for the info clearly you have been to the scene and know a lot more of the logistics than me, heck Im on a different continent.

What is your take on it being planned yet the CCTV?

What I'm saying is planned to me means a proper reconnaisance mission, a dry run as it were.

Surely if HOTG was the base then you would checck the place for cameras in advance or maybe you think our poi isnt that bright just lucky?

Planned crimes such as bank robberies tend not to go full circle like this they tend to start at point A go to B rob bank go to C then end up at D using different vehicles along the way to break any leads to follow up.

Using HOTG as the place to park your car and then dump JKs to get yours seems to dangerous to me in a 'planned' crime you are completing the circle by literally almost parking Jks car next to yours(the same applies by leaving your vehicle at Mosaic in the morning)

This is why I still think this may not be so planned certainly not meticulously anyway.

Keeping in mind the guard at the guardhouse, it would help explain IF the suspect chose to park his vehicle at the Huntington On The Green and then walk to the Mosaic to abduct Jennifer in her own car. The suspect didn't want to take a chance of being seen driving into or exiting the Mosaic by the guard in the guardhouse.

I don't think that the security cameras are very noticeable at Huntington On The Green. If the suspect used the Americana entrance, if there was a dry run and then again on the actual day for parking his own vehicle, this side of the parking lot is away from the cameras and away from the gates to the pool. A person would have to be very near the gates to read what the signs said about the security cameras. The suspect dropped off Jennifer's car at the Huntington On The Green and so he was not careful and was probably very upset with himself when he read that sign on the gate.

 

[leftcoast]

Thanks for clearing that up could never really work that out.

In that case I would go 200% with the dog being correct therefore we could say we 'know' as well as we can know that the poi went back to mosaic.

The next question is why?

4 possibilities I think.(please add more!)

1) He had to because of work or residence.
2) JK was still there, somewhere.
3) To rob the place but got scared off by the commotion
4) To collect his vehicle or bicycle or whatever

I would discount 3 as it doesnt appear to be a robbery, he did not attempt to use her cards and seemingly had a reasonable period of time to do so.

I also don't fancy 4 either who would leave their vehicle or bicycle in the vicinity of an abduction, first off LE could swarm the place take photos etc(3 is based on the pot not being a resident)

Talk about leave a huge clue, I'm still of the opinion the poi didnt have a vehicle of any kind but again it is only my opinion not fact.

I certainly don't think they had a car because if they had I can see no reason whatsoever to involve JKs car and expose yourself.

This leaves options 1 or 2 in my opinion.

UK

I think you are probably right on

However, I wouldn't discount the fact that the POI could have been sitting in his car and waiting for JK to come down to hers.

If jk was at her car, it would be easier to get one into her car, and less traumatic. For example, maybe, the perp. says all I need is a ride, and some money for a bus ticket, or some lame excuse. IF a perp. tried to get jk into his own car, then JK would know he was not just wanting money.

Let's think about this rationally. You are the perp., you just kipnapped someone at a place that you live or work. You have to make LE think the crime occurred elsewhere, especially if you think you could be a suspect.

I've said if before, JK could have been in the shower, or just left her door, someone is lurking is those "stupid" dangerous hallways. The person could put her into a vacant unit, or even their own place. Then, used JK's car to get rid of evidence, and leave it at a place close enough to get back to Mosaic.

UK I think your ideas are the most likely. Of all the places for the dog to track,he goes to Mosaic.

I sure wish the handler (if possible) could have taken the dog around the entire campus to see if that scent was anywhere else. If not, one would think the perp. was simply a visitor, and not a resident or worker, which is entirely possible.

Uk another possible scenario is a "date rape" type of thing, where Jk knew the person, got out of hand, and an accident happened. I wouldn't discount this theory at all (like Arruba) . Maybe JK gave someone a ride, to or from work, and something happened on the way. I don't know Jk's habits.

It's also possible, that someone showed up unannounced at Jk';s door Monday night, hysterical because she was gone with Rob all weekend. I'm still not convinced the abduction happened tuesday am. That phone sure did get turned off quickly. LIke someone knew Jk's habits. Heck, I can barely use a cellphone, and this guy finds hers, and turns it off quickly. hmm

Uk I think you and I are thinking alike. However, we need to keep an open mind. I wouldn't rule anything out, especially a "random' opportunity crime by a resident of Mosaic or visitor.

One scenario that I don't buy is one that happens away from Mosaic. I just find that so unlikley. Wouldn't rule it out, but very unlikely.

left

 

[leftcoast]

A definite possibility left however whats your take on it being as soon as she has returned from hols, they would have to have intimate knowledge of her schedule?

Well, like I said, it is a very, very long shot. But, who is to say the guy wasn't there Monday and Jk wasn't

Or maybe he "dropped" by over the weekend, and found Logan and friends, which only incensed him more.

Some of these 'weirdo's" plan these crimes like a mission in the military. I will admit dropping the car where there are cameras is stupid, but, other than that, this crime is awful clean for a first timer.

left

 

[Myserty64]

CCTV cameras are just about everywhere.

So are red light cameras and speed cameras.

I for one rarely think of them because during the course of the day there are so many things running through my mind.

A lot of crooks forget about them or don't worry about them because they are getting caught on them all the time.
Mind you most of the photos are hardly portrait quality.

Maybe the suspect never thought of them at HOTG.

 

[Myserty64]

Don't forget the scenario where a workers van might have been parked alongside Jennifer's car.
She could have been bundled into the van through the side sliding door before she knew what happened.
In fact the whole crime could have been committed in that van.

 

[CatLynnette]

Whichever scenario or theory, there should be an unbroken track by the bloodhound. For example, if a resident of the Mosaic is the suspect and he walked over to the stairwell of Jennifer's building then the bloodhound would have followed the scent over to the suspect's/resident's door of his condo. If the suspect is a Mosaic worker and he had parked his work van in the parking lot of the Mosaic then when he walked backed to the Mosaic, after dropping off Jennifer's car, if he still had work to do at the Mosaic that afternoon, then the bloodhound would have followed the scent to the condo that the suspect had been working on that afternoon. If the suspect was a Mosaic worker and he had his work van parked at the Mosaic and he walked back to retrieve it at about 12:30 in the afternoon and then drove away, the management of the Mosaic may have noticed that this worker had not done any work that day.


Edited for clarity: What I meant to say is that the bloodhound's scent ends at the stairwell of Jennifer's condo building at the Mosaic. The suspect couldn't have been a resident who walked to the stairwell and waited for Jennifer because then the bloodhound would have also tracked the scent of the suspect to the door of the suspect's own condo, which he didn't. If the suspect was a Mosaic worker, when he returned to the Mosaic on foot in the early afternoon and he still had work to do on the premises, then the bloodhound would have followed the scent of the suspect to the condos which the suspect was working on that day, which didn't happen either.

 

[leftcoast]

Don't forget the scenario where a workers van might have been parked alongside Jennifer's car.
She could have been bundled into the van through the side sliding door before she knew what happened.
In fact the whole crime could have been committed in that van.

That sounds a lot like Christopher Marlowes post.
He had some interesting ideas, but way too realistic for most
too many people jumped on him, albeit, because he was a little callous and seemed to be enjoying the story telling, rather than trying to find jk

Anyway, good point Mystery. Jk wouldnt' have had a chance in that scenario.

I still wonder why the POI drove JK's car.

Was it because he didnt' have his own
Was it to throw off police
Was it because he was in the car as a passenger
Was it because it was a carjacking gone bad
was it part of the plan, maybe JK had given him a ride in the past, and he had a plan for some morning

What's your take mystery? UK?
Why use JK's car.?

In my mind it was a 'stupid" move that will end up costing him his life. certainly, something in that car will be tied to the POI, imo

left

 

[UK Sleuth]

I definitely have a feeling or suspicion for JK being taken to another condo and not leaving mosaic, this is just a hunch and like you say you cannot rule anything out I want to stress all my thoughts are simply that.

It would explain the vanisihing side of things not a single witness or physical evidence.

Who knows if it was a late night Monday thing the poi has all night?

Could have taken JK away in the night in his vehicle returned and then just moved hers the next day.

I tend to think it was the morning though based on the missing items her purse, ipod, friends phone etc.

I feel she was at the least ready or getting ready to go to work.

Good point about the phone it has been turned off very quickly indeed.

What is it that makes you feel it didnt happen away from mosaic anything particular?

One scenario that dawned on me was that she is kidnapped enroute to work whilst she has stopped off to mail the phone, gets car jacked, poi takes her somewhere, restrains her or worse, then heads off to rob her apartment.

He has her purse so knows where she lives, dumps the car at HOTG as doesnt want to drive into mosaic in her car, heads to mosaic and is scared off by people looking for Jennifer or just simply loses his bottle.

 

[leftcoast]

UK

the reason I don't believe Jk was abducted by a stranger away from Mosaic is simple.

If she was a random victim, which is possible, how would the POI just happend to know a complex closeby to dump her car, the exact route and short cut, including hopping a wall at Mosaic, and then walks right up to her sidewalk by her unit.

It just seems so unlikely. Plus, why would he be going back to her unit? to rob it? without a vehicle? he would have to carry everything. It just seems so unlikley.

Now, it if was a stalker, or someone from the complex, then her being abucted away from mosaic is more feasible in my mind.

She could have been followed that morning, stopped to mail the package, or for coffee, and the stalker, neighbor,etc.

The more I think about this, the more convinced I am that the crime occurred at Mosaic. I hope I am not getting tunnel vision, but I think it is the most rational and logical.

I think someone had her morning routine down, and took advantage of this knowledge.

left

 

[Myserty64]

Yes leftcoast that is CM's scenario.
His idea was the crime was committed in the van. The suspect then moved the car to HOTG and came back to get his van. Jennifer was in the van and possibly hidden under work equipment.
Then the suspect returned to Mosaic to get his van.

The trouble with this scenario is the time her car was dropped which was noon. If her car was dropped at 9:30am or thereabouts the scenario might hold up today.

I do like the van theory because it explains the lack of evidence.

 

[petra]

I wonder if the guard was in the guardhouse at around 8:00 am that day, which is when Jennifer usually left for work. If not, it would have made it even easier for the suspect that morning because he wouldn't have had to worry about being seen.

My friends were at the Mosaic in March 2006 between 9:30 and 10:00 at night and they were told by the guard in the guardhouse to turn around and exit. Of course this was within weeks AFTER Jennifer Kesse's abduction, which would have made a huge difference.

Every time my husband and I have drove past the Mosaic the guardhouse was manned. Although, once again, this was AFTER Jennifer's abduction and it was always day time.

I am aware that security cameras were installed at the Mosaic AFTER Jennifer's abduction.

Thank you so very much for this interesting information.

Back to the guard at the gatehouse.

This should be easy to clear up with a few guestions to JKs brother who was there over the weekend.

I am assuming he drove there that weekend. Where did he part? JKs assigned spot? Was there only one car with he and his friends? Did he have permission to enter or stopped by guard? What about those who came for the party? Did they park their cars in guest parking after just driving in?

Was ANY there that weekend checked or stopped by the guard??????

 

[UK Sleuth]

Left

Good points I didnt think of them I don't think you have tunnel vision but the odds say a mosaic abduction, there needs to be a lot of playing the odds on this one with the little actual fact we know.

The Car is a tough one and I think if there is an outcome to this case the car will be that 'odd' thing that myserty aluded to.

As we have said before to get into JKs vehicle and not destroy it is leaving a trace of yourself, we have footage and possibly some physical evidence.

What I would like to know is when the call was first made to the mosaic complex did they check whether Jennifers car was there or did they just check her apartment and what time was this?

I think it was around 11?