FL - Somer Thompson, 7, Orange Park, 19 Oct 2009 #26

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It may not be the COD that made LE think homicide immediately. It could be that Somer was bound/gagged.
 
zannah said:
I totally agree--his comments felt "off" to me. Downplaying the "squabble" but making a big deal of "stranger danger." I also wondered who the "others" might be that would be sent to pick little girl up--it appears there may be an older sibling or cousin, who might be in the park area playing baseball or softball.
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I thought it was weird that any adult would tell a kid that her friend isn't going to be around tomorrow unless she "tells what she knows."

Huh?
 
Noway said:
It may not be the COD that made LE think homicide immediately. It could be that Somer was bound/gagged.
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It could also be assumed if they found a object near the body like a base ball bat that they would make that connection. Since OPAA is a sports place I wondered if softball practices where taking place around that time of day
 
I think we should also keep in mind IF that dumpster was located outside of Somer's walking distance, LE would know it was a homicide even if they could not immediately tell cause of death.

Also I agree with Hopetohelp they can often tell at the autopsy which wounds, injuries etc. were inflicted after death, posted a link a couple days ago on that.

The two biggest things I would like to know is where the dumpster was located & was Somer sexually assaulted.
 
Noway said:
It may not be the COD that made LE think homicide immediately. It could be that Somer was bound/gagged.
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Well. I mean, just by virtue of the fact that she ended up in the garbage in a landfill so far from home kind of establishes that it was a homicide... I can't think of any non-homicide reason she'd wind up there, deceased.

You know, like if they find skeletal remains in a shallow grave but can't find a specific COD, it's still a homicide because you know the person didn't bury themselves.

But she also could have been bound or gagged or had obvious signs of sexual assault.
 
ccane said:
It could also be assumed if they found a object near the body like a base ball bat that they would make that connection. Since OPAA is a sports place I wondered if softball practices where taking place around that time of day
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yeah, but it's weird. They didn't really spend a lot of time in the park, did they?
 
hopetohelp said:
Well. I mean, just by virtue of the fact that she ended up in the garbage in a landfill so far from home kind of establishes that it was a homicide... I can't think of any non-homicide reason she'd wind up there, deceased.

You know, like if they find skeletal remains in a shallow grave but can't find a specific COD, it's still a homicide because you know the person didn't bury themselves.

But she also could have been bound or gagged or had obvious signs of sexual assault.
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Exactly.

IIRC they were saying homicide immediately after finding her and it wouldn't take any obvious COD or being bound and gagged to make them say that.
 
hopetohelp said:
It's a good question. I think that strangulation (and asphyxiation) are pretty noticeable on autopsy, even with damage from the compactor. For one thing, the compactor damage would have been post mortem, probably at least twelve hours post mortem. ME's can tell which injuries are post mortem. But also, specifically, the hyoid bone is usually broken in the strangulation of adults, but not necessarily with children, because their bones are more flexible. Bruises are apparent in kind of a characteristic fashion on the neck (ligature markings or the mark of hands around the neck). You also see petechial hemorrhaging in the eyes and facial congestion. This hemorrhaging couldn't occur after death when the blood stops flowing.

Although I could be wrong (not a doctor or anything), I don't think the body bruises so many hours after death, so I think you would have post mortem injuries from the compactor, but they wouldn't bruise or bleed. To sum it up, I think that a good ME could definitely tell the injuries apart.
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I'm not questioning how the ME would be able to determine COD - I'm just thinking how LE was able to rule it a homicide right away if she was all crushed and cut up by the compactor. I know the ME could distinguish between injuries caused after death and those caused before death, but I don't think LE would be able to tell it was homicide so quickly if there was not something very obvious that they saw when they uncovered the body from the trash.

Maybe she WAS bound and gagged (not necessarily with her scarf) and that would be the reason they said homicide right away - IDK. But logic tells me that she must have had horrible injuries to her face or head that could not be fixed in order for a viewing to take place. When you have a viewing of your loved ones, all you see of them are from the waist up, no? So, the only reason I can think of for not wanting anyone to see the body at a viewing would be the face or head area having the most horrific injuries.

It is just so sad for this family to have to go through all of this and the pain their little girl had to go through. Just imagine what all goes through their mind not knowing HOW she was killed - imagining the worst things they could possibly imagine. If I'm imagining all these horrible what-if's (beaten in the head and face, shot in the head, decapitated) what must the family be imagining? My heart really breaks for them.
 
Noway said:
Exactly.

IIRC they were saying homicide immediately after finding her and it wouldn't take any obvious COD or being bound and gagged to make them say that.
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Sure would be nice if they released the COD though :)
 
New1 said:
It is just so sad for this family to have to go through all of this and the pain their little girl had to go through. Just imagine what all goes through their mind not knowing HOW she was killed - imagining the worst things they could possibly imagine. If I'm imagining all these horrible what-if's (beaten in the head and face, shot in the head, decapitated) what must the family be imagining? My heart really breaks for them.
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There's a cold case on the boards here - in Ohio if I recall correctly - where the parents haven't been told the COD for years and years. They still don't know. I don't know how I would be able to go on with that type of uncertainty.

But back to your initial point, I think the fact that she was found in the landfill is pretty much enough to show that it was homicide. I can't think of any way she could have gotten into the landfill on her own.
 
hopetohelp said:
There's a cold case on the boards here - in Ohio if I recall correctly - where the parents haven't been told the COD for years and years. They still don't know. I don't know how I would be able to go on with that type of uncertainty.

But back to your initial point, I think the fact that she was found in the landfill is pretty much enough to show that it was homicide. I can't think of any way she could have gotten into the landfill on her own.
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I having been thinking about this Dumpster thing and if it was a construction dumpster would they even compact it. The 2 x 4 and misc stuff would be hard to crush? Or ruin the compactor I would think? So that being said I think the theory of a beating is more likely. I knew someone decapitated from a car accident and the family still had open casket
 
hopetohelp said:
There's a cold case on the boards here - in Ohio if I recall correctly - where the parents haven't been told the COD for years and years. They still don't know. I don't know how I would be able to go on with that type of uncertainty.

But back to your initial point, I think the fact that she was found in the landfill is pretty much enough to show that it was homicide. I can't think of any way she could have gotten into the landfill on her own.
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Which cold casre in Ohio are you referring to? I live in SW Ohio
 
hopetohelp said:
There's a cold case on the boards here - in Ohio if I recall correctly - where the parents haven't been told the COD for years and years. They still don't know. I don't know how I would be able to go on with that type of uncertainty.

But back to your initial point, I think the fact that she was found in the landfill is pretty much enough to show that it was homicide. I can't think of any way she could have gotten into the landfill on her own.
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BBM

I can, but it probably didn't happen that way. What if she climbed into a dumpster and hid from her siblings like she supposedly hid behind the big tanks and someone not knowing she was in there dumped a load of heavy material in there on top of her and some of it hit her on the head and killed her? She could still have ended up in the landfill that way.

I know it's far fetched and I don't think it happened, but just saying "found in a landfill" would not necessarily have meant it was a homicide like "found in a shallow grave" would.
 
Noway said:
In this video Uncut: Somer Called Endangered in Tuesday Afternoon Briefing they mention that Somer met up with her siblings in the 1100 block of Gano.

She didn't leave the school with them. I don't think I knew that.

I'm not sure how close that is to Solomon and Gano, but she must have run off almost immediately after meeting up with them.

http://www.news4jax.com/video/21352846/
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(Bolded by Me, but not on Blackberry. lol)

So, since the house numbers get larger the farther one gets from the school, Somer caught up with her siblings soon after passing the 1080 Gano house that was searched.

Perhaps she told the workers they were doing a good job and then left and caught up with ST and AT. I had always pictured it as being after she had left ST and AT, not before. Especially, since we have heard over and over that Kyle may have been the last person to see Somer.


The imfamous 1080 house is only the third house from the corner of Grove Park Dr. and Gano. This is also the 2nd crossing guard's station. He says he does not think he saw Somer. In fact, he said he did not think it was odd that he had not seen her with ST & AT. They would have had to fight very quickly to part them in beween 1080 and the corner of Grove Park & Gano. If Somer ran ahead, and disappeared into a large crowd of children - or a crowd of big children, perhaps he really did not see her.

When did the little boy see her at the tanks? Those were a ways before the Gano house. Would Somer have back-tracked? If not, the boy could have seen Somer running to catch up with AT & ST.

Just a note: On google earth, the gentleman crossing guard has a motorcycle parked on the sidewalk near the corner. I'm assuming it is his. Someone at one time mentioned a motorcycle.??? Sorry - digression.

However, I think Somer made it past the crossing guard at Grove Park & Gano, and then something happened after that.

Direction 1 - She crossed Gano and turned right at the corner of Grove Park Dr. without noticing ...... kind of going along with the crowd she had disappeared into. (The street of Grove Park Dr here has a jog or jag, if you will. Kids must cross Gano, walk on the far side of Gano for several hundred feet and then turn right at the continuation of Grove Park Dr.)

Direction 2 - She crossed Gano with the other kids, but did not turn right on Grove Park Drive, but continued to walk down Gano on the side of the street with no sidewalk - with, rather than against traffic.

Direction 3 - She crossed Grove Park Drive, but not Gano, staying on the side-walk side of the street and heading on toward Debarry and the 3rd crossing station as is the usual route. Again, a large group of kids (or a group of large kids) could have hidden her from the view of the crossing guard at Gano and Grove Park Drive.

Direction 4 - She turned left on Grove Park Drive along with other children, not crossing either street with the crossing guard. Why left, when it would not even remotely be toward home? I cannot even guess.

In all four of these scenarios, Somer is well past the tank and OPAA and into one of several neighborhoods.

Can someone or more than one, go on google maps and take this journey and see what I mean? It takes me in a whole different sleuthing direction. Thanks.


If this has been posted ...... I do apologize. I have read for hours trying not to repeat, but there is alot from the first couple of weeks I have never read all the way through.
 
infinity14 said:
Which cold casre in Ohio are you referring to? I live in SW Ohio
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Oy! I knew someone would ask me that :) I'll have to find it for you. It involved three murders and two disappearances that were thought to be murders, and an old movie house/theater. I'll post a link when I find it.
 
hopetohelp said:
I thought it was weird that any adult would tell a kid that her friend isn't going to be around tomorrow unless she "tells what she knows."

Huh?
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I did a double HUH? Who would tell a kid that especially since she was just missing at that point. High hinky there!:waitasec:
 
Ok, so it's IDAHO and not Ohio. Close though huh? Three of the letters were the same... Anyway, here's the link:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75222"]Are These Five Idaho Cold Cases Connected? The Police Think So. - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
sadnpod said:
I did a double HUH? Who would tell a kid that especially since she was just missing at that point. High hinky there!:waitasec:
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Also, to me he seemed kind of dramatic and... I can't really explain it. Just wrong somehow. I'll figure out what it is I'm trying to say and articulate it better at some point. lol
 
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