FRAUD - Tammy & Sidney Moorer in Heather Elvis case, hearing held 17 Dec 2018

[Ghostwheel]

I have heard of strict attendance policies in my state, but I don't believe many districts enforce them unless they have other reasons for doing so, like if a child seems neglected or a parent is always threatening to sue.

That said, we always planned our vacations during school breaks because my kids found it hard to miss a full week of school. In about 3 weeks, school schedules will no longer be a factor in when we go away. That time flew by, and I'm glad that 3 days was the longest that my kids ever missed school for something other than illness or injury.

In our state, if the family goes away for more than 5 days, the students can get what is called a "contract" and the teachers give the kids a list of items to accomplish while they are away. This worked out quite well the times we had the opportunity to visit Washington DC, Yellowstone and Hawaii (the Big Island) while the volcano was erupting. We could never have afforded those trips during vacation times when the costs are two to three times as much. Those three excursions were worth far more than whatever they would have missed in school. As long as the contract was returned with the work done, the kids got credit, the school got it's money and everyone was happy (especially my son's class that got daily youtube reports from the volcano.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Did Tammy ever comment on any true crime posts on the Disney forum? I am curious to know whether TM's love for NG meant she was watching her every night, maybe following cases online, or if she was just saying she loved her because of NG's image of saying whatever she wanted, having lots of "haters", etc.

 

[Ghostwheel]

So back to the fraud part of this program. According to Elder, "there were vast discrepancies in the Socastee couple's income as reported on tax forms." So what were the discrepancies between?

What I am trying to figure out, is where is the discrepancy? You only file one set of taxes forms each year (unless you make a mistake). So what are they comparing those tax forms to? A Medicaid application? Pay stubs? I've never qualified for Medicaid, so I'm trying to figure out what things don't match up.

 

[SStarr33]

So back to the fraud part of this program. According to Elder, "there were vast discrepancies in the Socastee couple's income as reported on tax forms." So what were the discrepancies between?

What I am trying to figure out, is where is the discrepancy? You only file one set of taxes forms each year (unless you make a mistake). So what are they comparing those tax forms to? A Medicaid application? Pay stubs? I've never qualified for Medicaid, so I'm trying to figure out what things don't match up.

I think it is for their loan applications for the land in FL.

 

[justonedrin]

So back to the fraud part of this program. According to Elder, "there were vast discrepancies in the Socastee couple's income as reported on tax forms." So what were the discrepancies between?

What I am trying to figure out, is where is the discrepancy? You only file one set of taxes forms each year (unless you make a mistake). So what are they comparing those tax forms to? A Medicaid application? Pay stubs? I've never qualified for Medicaid, so I'm trying to figure out what things don't match up.

I can think of several--the land they were trying to buy for one-they would have stated income as being higher so that they could qualify for the loan to buy the land. credit card applications could be another.you want the lender to be sure that you have enough money to make the payments and pay them back for the loan.
I am an accountant. here is how it goes with income for the most part with unscrupulous people----
when you want to BUY you RAISE your income as much as you can.
when it comes to paying taxes or getting assistance you LOWER it as much as you can.
depends on which angle works the best for you at the time.

 

[NFYIAMY]

How long/for what services was SM's contract with TK? I'm sure that they're looking into his business income and I don't think businesses would lie about how much they paid him/his 'business' for the work he completed?

If he met Heather last spring there - and was still doing work there into the fall - that alone could show more income than they reported THIS YEAR on their taxes?

They couldn't be THAT stupid could they? To LIE on the taxes they filed WHILE being looked at for murder??

Don't answer. Seriously don't answer that last question. :banghead:

 

[Motherof5]

How long/for what services was SM's contract with TK? I'm sure that they're looking into his business income and I don't think businesses would lie about how much they paid him/his 'business' for the work he completed?

If he met Heather last spring there - and was still doing work there into the fall - that alone could show more income than they reported THIS YEAR on their taxes?

They couldn't be THAT stupid could they? To LIE on the taxes they filed WHILE being looked at for murder??

Don't answer. Seriously don't answer that last question. :banghead:

I tried not to answer.:blushing: TM did the big FB rant while being looked at by LE. SM said he hadn't seen Heather since October but we know that he talked to her 12/18 and "saw" her 11/5. I think they are a combo of stupid and a great deal of grandiose thoughts of not being caught for anything.

 

[cluciano63]

I think fraud is a way of life for them, so that it did not even occur to them to take precautions about it, while planning a greater crime.

 

[Motherof5]

Did Tammy ever comment on any true crime posts on the Disney forum? I am curious to know whether TM's love for NG meant she was watching her every night, maybe following cases online, or if she was just saying she loved her because of NG's image of saying whatever she wanted, having lots of "haters", etc.

I got the impression that she watched her every night because she talked about the types of cases that NG takes on but I'm not sure if she actually followed cases the way we do. It seemed more like TM's interest was more in NG rather than the cases themselves. That's what I got from her comments anyway.

 

[southerncat]

So back to the fraud part of this program. According to Elder, "there were vast discrepancies in the Socastee couple's income as reported on tax forms." So what were the discrepancies between?



What I am trying to figure out, is where is the discrepancy? You only file one set of taxes forms each year (unless you make a mistake). So what are they comparing those tax forms to? A Medicaid application? Pay stubs? I've never qualified for Medicaid, so I'm trying to figure out what things don't match up.

Prior to the ACA in Kentucky you had to either bring in prior year tax return as proof of self employment. If you were employed you provided prior two months check sticks to verify wages. We have ways to verify that someone is employed (outside of self employment) and what their quarterly incomes are but if you are self employed and do not report it the state would have no way to verify. Now with the ACA we have a new eligibility system that will determine eligibility based on your prior tax return (self employed or not). In KY there will be a lot of people surprised when they go to renew their assistance and it comes up they have been working as self employed all these years and never reported it. Hopefully a lot of fraud will be caught, stopped and prosecuted. Fraud is fraud and a crime no matter how small the amount is.

I have no idea if the same policies are in place in SC. Tomorrow I should have time to google it and see if I can find the policy.

Eta the point of all that is IMO it sounds like they reported little to no income to the Medicaid office when in fact their taxes show income that would have made them ineligible for Medicaid.

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[Jo in Calif]

IMO Bottom line with these charges, not related to the charges of murder and kidnapping, they will be tried on them long before the murder kidnapping trial.
If they are found guilty and have felonies under their belts, neither of their attorneys are going to be able to say that their clients have squeaky clean records at any time during the murder trial.
Doesn't make a rats azz bit of difference who committed these same charges and how much money they got, chances are at the time of their arrests they weren't setting in jail with murder and kidnapping charges against them. That, IMO, is the difference here.

 

[Motherof5]

IMO Bottom line with these charges, not related to the charges of murder and kidnapping, they will be tried on them long before the murder kidnapping trial.
If they are found guilty and have felonies under their belts, neither of their attorneys are going to be able to say that their clients have squeaky clean records at any time during the murder trial.
Doesn't make a rats azz bit of difference who committed these same charges and how much money they got, chances are at the time of their arrests they weren't setting in jail with murder and kidnapping charges against them. That, IMO, is the difference here.

I'm looking forward to TM's lawyer no longer being able to claim that she doesn't even have a traffic ticket. :floorlaugh:

 

[Koshka]

So back to the fraud part of this program. According to Elder, "there were vast discrepancies in the Socastee couple's income as reported on tax forms." So what were the discrepancies between?

What I am trying to figure out, is where is the discrepancy? You only file one set of taxes forms each year (unless you make a mistake). So what are they comparing those tax forms to? A Medicaid application? Pay stubs? I've never qualified for Medicaid, so I'm trying to figure out what things don't match up.

I would guess the discrepancies would be between income stated on their federal income tax returns and on the Medicaid applications. SC has state income tax, so presumably there could be discrepancies there, too. Guess we'll find out if/when it all comes out in court.

 

[Madeleine74]

They're in trouble at the state level and federal level. That's some serious trouble, IMO. Aside from the kidnapping/murder charges of course.

 

[geevee]

So back to the fraud part of this program. According to Elder, "there were vast discrepancies in the Socastee couple's income as reported on tax forms." So what were the discrepancies between?

What I am trying to figure out, is where is the discrepancy? You only file one set of taxes forms each year (unless you make a mistake). So what are they comparing those tax forms to? A Medicaid application? Pay stubs? I've never qualified for Medicaid, so I'm trying to figure out what things don't match up.

During the bond hearing they put up on the screen some comparisons of income stated on tax returns and income claimed on loans applications I think (although the years of each were different), if Hoppy still has her pics up from that hearing you can probably find the one or two shots that showed those figures.

 

[Ghostwheel]

During the bond hearing they put up on the screen some comparisons of income stated on tax returns and income claimed on loans applications I think (although the years of each were different), if Hoppy still has her pics up from that hearing you can probably find the one or two shots that showed those figures.

Perfect. I will go hunt those down. The reason I am asking is because everything I have seen (so far) does not show discrepancies for the same years. As an example not based on any facts because I haven't looked it up yet, if in 2007 $15,000 was declared on tax forms, but for 2008 $50,000 was declared on a loan application-this would not a discrepancy for either year, but is a discrepancy of income from year to year. The discrepancy from year to year is not unusual for self employed people, in my own experience.

I didn't think about comparing against the loan for the land they wanted to buy. It fell off my radar. Thanks to everyone who mentioned that.

 

[Motherof5]

Perfect. I will go hunt those down. The reason I am asking is because everything I have seen (so far) does not show discrepancies for the same years. As an example not based on any facts because I haven't looked it up yet, if in 2007 $15,000 was declared on tax forms, but for 2008 $50,000 was declared on a loan application-this would not a discrepancy for either year, but is a discrepancy of income from year to year. The discrepancy from year to year is not unusual for self employed people, in my own experience.

I didn't think about comparing against the loan for the land they wanted to buy. It fell off my radar. Thanks to everyone who mentioned that.

I found this one. I know that there were others.

 

[njgolden1120]

I think fraud is a way of life for them, so that it did not even occur to them to take precautions about it, while planning a greater crime.

Exactly. It became second nature. Her idea of right vs wrong seems if it's not about her or benefits her that's when it's wrong. She definitely has a the world owes me attitude. First thought it was because what he did but obviously it goes farther back. She wanted people to see her in a certain way. Dug a mighty deep hole to achieve it and it backfired badly. She was number one on her list of importance beginning to think she was the only one on that list.

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[Ghostwheel]

I found this one. I know that there were others.

Yes, this was exactly what I thought I remembered. Thank you very much!

In this instance, there is a discrepancy from year to year. If SM tried his hand at being a "cook" (chef?) for those two years, that would explain the designation. I do see that if TM was doing her Magical Vacations, LE might believe they falsified by not putting that income down. Having done the self employment thing, there were years when my self employment earnings were in the negative, and other years when it went through the roof. If you don't earn anything, you don't have to file a schedule C, IIRC. However, if the 2011 earnings and 2012 earnings did not match with what they put down for the loan, fraud would be proven.

That is what I was trying to figure out, and while the loan application seems to be the most likely source of comparison, they didn't happen to display that in this slide.

BTW, I am not trying to defend them in any way, I just like to see facts that actually line up.

 

[seattlechiquita]

Damnnnnnnn... these two are the gift that keep on givin' eh? :jail: