GUILTY GA - Eight family members brutally murdered in Brunswick home, 29 Aug 2009
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ITA. There's a lot here that doesn't add up.
Beyond Belief
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If the perp was swinging a baseball bat or crowbar none of the victims were prob able to get close to him. I wonder if the crowbar was missing from his car. Maybe thats what they found and the autopsys matched with that type of injury.
oceanblueeyes
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It will be interesting to see if he did have a cellphone but wanted someone else to make the 911 call.
Sort of reminds me of Dr. Murray in M. Jackson's case. He had a cell phone, in fact he was to have used it three times that day yet he had someone else place the 911 call.
imo
oceanblueeyes
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I really think when this actually happens to people that most will do anything trying to save their own lives and that of others. Looking at a suspect threatening to kill all of you has to be so frightening. They had to see the look in his eyes and knew he meant it. It would not surprise me if they all were compliant thinking if they did what he said they would let them live. Imo, they were probably begging for their lives and trying to appease him not ire him further hoping that he would stop his madness. I think they were trying to reason with him.
Even if it wasn't him I don't think the suspect would have marks on him. He had the element of surprise and evidently he is the only one able to have a weapon. We have seen in murder/suicide cases where the perp will go from room to room shooting the entire family. We always think if they heard the first shot the others would fight back but so many times they freeze in terror.
If they were bludgeoned to death, which I don't think they were, then one tremendous swing to the head would render the person helpless. He looks like a sturdy built man who would have a powerful swing and then add to it all the adrenaline and drugs that may have been flowing through his veins.
imo
Catching up here! But do we know where the brother and stepfather live?
Soulmagent
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Do you have any links about the video or is that local rumor? Do you know if they are still searching or found anything? Have they released the house yet? I just wonder if they are only looking between New hope and Darien because GuyJr's time line only allowed for the 15 mile drive so they think something has to be there as he couldnt have had time to dispose of anything anywhere else. I would be interested in hearing local thoughts and impressions.What is the over confidence rating locally in the sheriffs office? It would be great if LE would at least release how many shots were fired. I doubt they could release the type of gun. Was the door kicked in or not ? I guess in this type of investagation location of the victims being kept secret is the prove placement of the killer but if they think they have there guy why the silence? Most LE'S do release stuff such as suspect used his credit card...or was seen leaving ...or 20 bullets hole in living room walls -or in the case of a missing murder weapon police seeking handgun in connection with etc... Why does this appear so different?
oceanblueeyes
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I think we will know a little more information from the indictments.
When is he to be arraigned on these charges? The DA can opt for a preliminary hearing and if so then we will learn more from that or he can decide to take it to a GJ and we won't know since GJs are sworn to secrecy. Of course if the defendant thinks it is not in his best interest to have a PH, even if the DA opts for one, since some things will come to light he can give up his right to one and it will move the case forward.
Most defense attorneys prefer a PH because it allows them to cross examine witnesses and learn more about some of the things the State has... however; the State never releases their best evidence before a trial. In a GJ only the DA is in with the jury and the witnesses called.
I really believe the police see no reason for telling the citizens how they died or if they were shot. They deal with the homicides that occured and the suspect who has now been arrested.
imo
Its just one of those things where you know someone who knows someone who works in the places that would know things.
On the way to the funerals on Saturday we saw the search teams... They were everywhere between the trailor park and Darien. They were on 4 wheelers, one driving and one looking down.
MeoW333
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The whole ordeal sounds like murders over drug dealings gone bad. What the little brother said sounds a more fitting scenario.
If it was murders over drugs, most likely there was more than one killer in the house, which would control all the victims better than just one person alone.
If it was murders over drugs, most likely there was more than one killer in the house, which would control all the victims better than just one person alone.
believe09
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FWIW, here is a little info on silencers for guns and how they do/do not work:
http://msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=print_topic;f=39;t=000984
I also read that many shotgun silencers are sold in UK where there are more stringent noise control issues, so I suppose they could be easy to come by depending on the weapon.
In any case, LE is not saying these folks were killed with a gun, correct?
http://msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=print_topic;f=39;t=000984
I also read that many shotgun silencers are sold in UK where there are more stringent noise control issues, so I suppose they could be easy to come by depending on the weapon.
In any case, LE is not saying these folks were killed with a gun, correct?
GOLDHEARTNUMB
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There have also been four wheelers along St. Simons Island Causeway doing searches in the brush. May or may not be related.
oceanblueeyes
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I think in a way it may be drug related in the end. I don't think the perpetrator was outside drug dealers though.
The Tolars were going to be moving to another place. They were being evicted, I think for having too many living in the home but the media article said they had agreed to move out in September, irrc.
I wonder if the adult men were having problems with Heinz Jr. about his drug use and told him he would have to find himself another place to stay. Maybe his dad had even kicked him out that night before he went to his brother's and supposedly stayed until 5:40 am.
I just don't believe in coincidences especially in a murder case.
1. He lied right from the get go about his alibi and whereabouts.
2. He had the wherewithal to think of retrieving a shotgun and putting it in his car when he had just seen probably the most horrific scene imaginable.
3. He stressed way too often on the 911 call that he had JUST gotten home.
4. Time unaccounted for from 5:40 am until after 8 when the maintenance worker called 911.
5. Ample time to do the deed, leave the scene, discard evidence and return.
6. One who "found" the bodies.
7. Only family member left alive that lived in that home (except the 3 year old child)
I can understand the brother not wanting to believe he is the one but imo LE has uncovered evidence against him. This case has been investigated not just by the local police but state and federal agencies too.
Even his brother said Jr. was arrested because his story did not add up and I think there is way more to what they have than just what he told police.
Wouldn't surprise me at all that Heinz Jr. may have told someone something that has now become helpful to LE.
I don't think there had to be anyone else to do this crime. Other than the three men the others were really no threat to him and he probably killed those three men first. The others may have tried to hide and were shaking in terror when he shot them.
imo
Soulmagent
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1.He lied about some of his where abouts ,not all (per news links on this thread)
2. why didnt he have this wherewithal earlier?
3.He stated it 3 times 1st when he was handed the phone 2nd time when the operator asked what happened and the third because it appears he didnt finish his sentence http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/08/31/georgia.killings/index.html?iref=mpstoryview
4. Wherever he was between 540a and the 911 call doesnt matter as the murders happened between 8pm and 12 am. ( per Jimmy Durben of Glynn County's coroner, cant find the link but it is on this thread) The neighbor called 911 not the maintence worker.
5. Why didn't the weed the shotgun and the darvocet go on this long ample journey and he return without them.
6. Everyone else is dead.Who was left to find them?
7. <~Most important ,how many people lived in the trailer? At first we believe 12 live there but news reports say just ten. But Belinda West claims her son lives there ,making 11.
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2009/09/05/general-us-mobile-home-slayings_6853146.html
Post 182 of this thread states Belinda west reported her son and brother in law lived at the house ,we know joesph west was her brother in law but who is her son?and did he live there? Belinda west showed up at the scence and screamed'' they killed my boy'' http://www.jacksonville.com/news/georgia/2009-08-29/story/glynn_police_chief_says_hes_uncertain_if_killer_of_7_still_on_loose Who are they? Did her son live there? It also tells me 1. he was expected to be there (by her) and 2 .She was unaware of where he was.
Why would he be expected to be there ? And where was he?
oceanblueeyes
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1. What possible justification would he have to lie at all about anything when he knew this crime was as serious as it gets?
2. How did he have the presence of mind to try and protect himself and give himself a false alibi?
3. I am not sure when what you mean when you state "wherewithal earlier'?
We have no clue when he put the shotgun in the trunk. The maintenance worker was standing right outside the home when Jr. was inside and never mentioned seeing him removing a weapon.
4. I do not agree with you. The time line is between 8 hour and 12 hour span. In between those hours is when these people were murdered so yes, it very much matters where he was from 5:40 p,m until the 911 call was made and imo THAT is the time period he lied about to LE.
5. I don't know. Maybe he forgot about the darvocet and knew the shotgun is not the murder weapon. He sure had enough wherewithal to think about it though didn't he right while he was among all the dead bodies of his family. :waitasec:
6. These people weren't hermits. Others would have discovered they were dead. Being the one that supposedly finds the bodies have always been huge red flags.
7. The most important factor about the mobile home is TOO MANY lived there and that is why they were being evicted.
8. Dont know but I am sure LE does.
imo
Spyglass
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceanblueeyes
1. He lied right from the get go about his alibi and whereabouts.
2. He had the wherewithal to think of retrieving a shotgun and putting it in his car when he had just seen probably the most horrific scene imaginable.
3. He stressed way too often on the 911 call that he had JUST gotten home.
4. Time unaccounted for from 5:40 am until after 8 when the maintenance worker called 911.
5. Ample time to do the deed, leave the scene, discard evidence and return.
6. One who "found" the bodies.
7. Only family member left alive that lived in that home
imo
Quote:
Originally posted by Soulmagnet
1.He lied about some of his where abouts ,not all (per news links on this thread)
Originally Posted by oceanblueeyes
1. He lied right from the get go about his alibi and whereabouts.
2. He had the wherewithal to think of retrieving a shotgun and putting it in his car when he had just seen probably the most horrific scene imaginable.
3. He stressed way too often on the 911 call that he had JUST gotten home.
4. Time unaccounted for from 5:40 am until after 8 when the maintenance worker called 911.
5. Ample time to do the deed, leave the scene, discard evidence and return.
6. One who "found" the bodies.
7. Only family member left alive that lived in that home
imo
Quote:
Originally posted by Soulmagnet
1.He lied about some of his where abouts ,not all (per news links on this thread)
2. why didnt he have this wherewithal earlier?
3.He stated it 3 times 1st when he was handed the phone 2nd time when the operator asked what happened and the third because it appears he didnt finish his sentence http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/08/31/...ef=mpstoryview
4. Wherever he was between 540a and the 911 call doesnt matter as the murders happened between 8pm and 12 am. ( per Jimmy Durben of Glynn County's coroner, cant find the link but it is on this thread) The neighbor called 911 not the maintence worker.
5. Why didn't the weed the shotgun and the darvocet go on this long ample journey and he return without them.
6. Everyone else is dead.Who was left to find them?
7. <~Most important ,how many people lived in the trailer? At first we believe 12 live there but news reports say just ten. But Belinda West claims her son lives there ,making 11.
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2009/...s_6853146.html
Post 182 of this thread states Belinda west reported her son and brother in law lived at the house ,we know joesph west was her brother in law but who is her son?and did he live there? Belinda west showed up at the scence and screamed'' they killed my boy'' http://www.jacksonville.com/news/geo...still_on_loose Who are they? Did her son live there? It also tells me 1. he was expected to be there (by her) and 2 .She was unaware of where he was.
Why would he be expected to be there ? And where was he?
Two strong posts with good explanations for the opposing opinions about Guy Jr's involvement based on the little we know so far. Thanks to both of you.
When someone is initially arrested and the facts of the case aren't known yet, I normally have a bias in favor of LE's judgment until more is known for our own independent analysis. I just don't feel comfortable putting my blind confidence in this sheriff. Would he re-arrest this man and bar his attendance at his family's funeral without sufficient evidence of guilt? I don't know, but he seems like he might. We need more facts.
Beyond Belief
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Apparently Guy jr was into something verified by Tyler. The family was silenced. I wonder if they threatened to turn Guy, Jr. in. I think Tyler is lucky he's still walking and breathing.