GUILTY GA - Eight family members brutally murdered in Brunswick home, 29 Aug 2009

[Soulmagent]

I hope GuyJrs family is not talking to LE about anything.
I believe the screams on the tape that were mentioned are GuyJr's



Home boarded up http://www.topix.com/county/glynn-ga/2009/09/glynn-county-mobile-home-boarded-up

 

[boldbadger]

New to this site, but reading this one with interest. Some thoughts from me, take 'em with a pinch of salt, as I'm new to this!

1. Sadly, I believe he was involved and was there, but I do feel that someone else was there also; from reading and listening to the accused, he seems a little on the slow side and I just don't believe that if he was in a blind rage, he would not have woken the household up and the scene would have been very different.
2. I just don't believe he had the guile to quietly move between each person putting them out as we are led to believe from what little we know. Evidence may point to this, but the whole scene is so sinister and complete, I just cannot see it going down exactly as we seem to be heading. Perhaps they were drugged, but again, the suspect doesn't seem that smart.
3. The shotgun could possibly have been used in another crime, something that we may find out later, or it could have been used as the murder weopon, i.e. the butt, these things are not light.

Just a couple of thoughts, great site and creative people here!!

 

[Soulmagent]

New to this site, but reading this one with interest. Some thoughts from me, take 'em with a pinch of salt, as I'm new to this!

1. Sadly, I believe he was involved and was there, but I do feel that someone else was there also; from reading and listening to the accused, he seems a little on the slow side and I just don't believe that if he was in a blind rage, he would not have woken the household up and the scene would have been very different.
2. I just don't believe he had the guile to quietly move between each person putting them out as we are led to believe from what little we know. Evidence may point to this, but the whole scene is so sinister and complete, I just cannot see it going down exactly as we seem to be heading. Perhaps they were drugged, but again, the suspect doesn't seem that smart.
3. The shotgun could possibly have been used in another crime, something that we may find out later, or it could have been used as the murder weopon, i.e. the butt, these things are not light.

Just a couple of thoughts, great site and creative people here!!

Hi and welcome to the board ! Good post


I agree with you about the GuyJr sounding slow on the 911 tape. I thought he sounded a little drunk and emotional. I cannot draw conclusions as to his intelligence.
The crime scene has not been depicted. If it was blind rage I truely feel he would not of went back to that trailer. Is there a precuser to voilence of this nature?
I do not believe the "they were drugged '' theroy, the drugging part would indicate premeditation and the beatings with multiple weapons from one person contradicts that.
I do not believe they were sleeping as the bodies in the kitchen contradicts
I know the cause of death is listed as blunt force trama. The multiple weapons make me wonder if the victims had been stabbed as well. I have nothing to base that on other then trying to look into the way Doeing words his sentences.
I have wondered if they are trying to keep GuyJr safe and this is an odd way of protecting him, which is why they couldn't let him go to the service. Thinking he was the intended target. But that is far fetched as I doubt they would of let him out in the first place.Then again why arrest him an cause that family that much more grief ?Could it not of waited 2 hours? There were police present. He is innocent until Proven , but the media says he did it so millions of americans really think he did without question. I am going to stick to Keeping my mind open until something removes any and all doubt from my mind. I would hate to think of an innocent person sitting in jail after he just found his whole family dead.
Anybody read about David Camn?

 

[Stoshie]

In one article Rusty's family stated that LE told them they had enough evidence to "nail GuyJr to the wall". My guess is that they probably do and some of us will be surprised when we hear what it is.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the only person in the trailer who was a blood relative of GuyJr was GuySr. There are two families involved and I don't believe that Rusty's family all believe GuyJr is innocent.

I am not sure of a blood relationship, but Russ Sr., Brenda and Guy Sr. have the same relatives named in the obituaries.

From what I read before, it sounds as if they were raised together (maybe foster care or adoption?).

 

[sigsky]

Russ Toler and Guy Heinze Sr were described as half brothers so they had the same mother or the same father. Probably mother given the surnames. Thus all the common relatives.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Hi and welcome to the board ! Good post


I agree with you about the GuyJr sounding slow on the 911 tape. I thought he sounded a little drunk and emotional. I cannot draw conclusions as to his intelligence.
The crime scene has not been depicted. If it was blind rage I truly feel he would not of went back to that trailer. Is there a precuser to violence of this nature?
I do not believe the "they were drugged '' theroy, the drugging part would indicate premeditation and the beatings with multiple weapons from one person contradicts that.
I do not believe they were sleeping as the bodies in the kitchen contradicts
I know the cause of death is listed as blunt force trauma. The multiple weapons make me wonder if the victims had been stabbed as well. I have nothing to base that on other then trying to look into the way Doeing words his sentences.
I have wondered if they are trying to keep GuyJr safe and this is an odd way of protecting him, which is why they couldn't let him go to the service. Thinking he was the intended target. But that is far fetched as I doubt they would of let him out in the first place.Then again why arrest him an cause that family that much more grief ?Could it not of waited 2 hours? There were police present. He is innocent until Proven , but the media says he did it so millions of americans really think he did without question. I am going to stick to Keeping my mind open until something removes any and all doubt from my mind. I would hate to think of an innocent person sitting in jail after he just found his whole family dead.
Anybody read about David Camn?

I think these were premeditated murders. Other murderers indeed have used that method when the full intent was to kill the victim. It was just the method chosen. Maybe because guns are noisy. Maybe the intent was not only to murder but to gravely mar the victims. Joesph Duncan for one, used a huge heavy claw hammer to kill Mark McKenzie, Brenda and Slade Greone.

It was said in earlier articles that victims were found in their bed or on the floor beside their bed, living room and it isn't clear how many were found in the kitchen. It may have only been one.

Did Doreing himself say there were differing weapons? Imo, it would not be a knife since stabbing does not create blunt force trauma and they all succumbed because of that.

I don't think they are trying to protect him. With all of these law enforcement agencies involved they could have easily removed him from the jail in an unmarked vehicle to an undisclosed location and maintain surveillance. I think they arrested him because of evidence and to bring him to trial so that justice can be served.

Since he wasn't even arrested for the murders for over a week imo the day he was arrested is when they found the link to him only and the murders.

I agree, I dont think they were drugged.

Yes, it will be very interesting to learn if the cops had been called out there before and what was happening for them to come and between whom.

imo

 

[gxm]

To the best of my knowledge the only non-relative killed was Chrissy Toler's boyfriend, Joseph West.

Boldbadger, welcome aboard from one newbie to another. Great points. I have the same feeling that he was involved but that someone else could have been as well. Maybe Guy Jr. was just part of the clean up. Attacking the child tells me that the victims knew the killer(s). There's just no other reason to beat a toddler near to death.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Russ Toler and Guy Heinze Sr were described as half brothers so they had the same mother or the same father. Probably mother given the surnames. Thus all the common relatives.

I am a little confused about that though.

Which one of them was from 9 siblings and they were put up for adoption? I believe one of them was born in the Chicago area, iirc and moved down south to live. Was that Rusty Tolar?

Maybe Rusty and Sr. met very early in their lives and stayed together as brothers until they died.

I have read that even though "they were brothers" in every sense they were not blood brothers. I guess they "adopted" each other, even if not legally and claimed the same family. In Rusty's obit did it mention the other 8 siblings he was to have had, maybe some of them were adopted after all and he never knew how to locate them.

I have seen this happen before when a family thinks of someone like their own and does feel in their hearts they are their own bio family member whether they are or not.

imo

 

[Marina2]

snipped:

I am a little confused about that though.
Which one of them was from 9 siblings and they were put up for adoption? I believe one of them was born in the Chicago area, iirc and moved down south to live. Was that Rusty Tolar?

snipped from article:

"Heinze's father, Guy Heinze Sr., was among the dead, said John Bryant, Heinz's brother-in-law. Bryant, who lives in Illinois, told the Times-Union by phone this afternoon that his wife got calls from a sister and her father telling her about the attack and Heinze's death."
"Bryant said Guy Heinze Sr. was one of nine siblings born in the Chicago area. He said they were all given up for adoption and several lived troubled lives that included drug abuse. Bryant said Guy Heinze Sr.'s wife died a few years ago in Georgia of a drug overdose. "
"The whole story is so troubling," Bryant said of Heinze and his siblings. "The father never raised one of them."

http://m.jax2go.com/topic/1067-Local News/articles/193184519

 

[Soulmagent]

I cannot find and obit for joesph west but this this was released today. It also states that GuyJr is set to appear in court this week unless it goes to a grand jury before then hopefully we get more information then.
Can anyone find an obit for him? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32818194/ns/local_news-jacksonville_fl/

 

[annmarie62]

True and people get acclimated to noises and can sleep right through them. My aunt use to live close to a railroad track in the country years ago and that thing came through full speed, blowing the horn for at least a quarter of a mile or more before it got to the intersection right in the middle of the night. She and the rest of the family just slept right through it even though it jarred the walls and scared me to death when I stayed with her.

And no one is instantly going to wake up and be cognizant enough to realize the gravity of the matter. Three fans would very much muffle any sounds in the interior and the tv could have still been on. Usually the front and back door is on one end in these single wides. The hall is very very narrow so those in the bedroom were boxed in on the other end of the trailer I imagine that is where most of the victims were with maybe one or two laying on the living room couch. All he had to do is go to each bedroom. It had three bedrooms and even if only three were to a room that would be 9 right there. All of this didn't have to take a long time to complete, imo. Bludgeoning murders are the most brutal due to the damage sustained to the victim immediately upon struck.

There is to be a 911 call made saying yelling and threats were heard. I believe it is that witness or witnesses that Doering is referring to and no matter what, all of these people were bludgeoned in their home and did not escape. If it was Heinz Jr. then yes, he did murder them right by himself and Doering seems very comfortable they have the evidence against the sole perpetrator and said that the evidence he has showed Jr. was alone when he did this.. The police chief stated he knew how it happened, what happened and who has been arrested for theses horrific crimes. He would not comment on motive but I think LE has a pretty good idea what it is by now. There was something happening between him and those who lived there before the mêlée began imo.

I think this case has got drugs all over it and I think the drugs were of Jr's making. Even his own brother hinted that when he said that Jr. may bear some responsibility by bringing the drugs there. Imo, I think there was a confrontation Friday night between Jr. and someone in the trailer, possibly his dad about the drugs. I think Jr. made threats and came back and carried them out.

We have no idea if these poor people tried to defend themselves as best they could. Maybe they have broken fingers/hands or arms where they tried to shield themselves for the blows. Maybe some did try to stop him to only lose their lives. All we know is if they did it was futile. No one stands a chance when they are cornered up in a tiny home. No one can be a match when going up against a man wielding a lethal unforgiving bludgeoning weapon that crushes bones on contact. We heard the description on Michael it seems he hit them right in the face. He had the element of surprise in his favor and imo the internal rage, maybe fueled by a drug induced state of mind he became a monster none of them could deal with.

imo

...your reasoning makes a lot of sense to me; I will be SO glad when the DETAILS of this case are finally released!! I myself sleep with a fan on "high" every night, winter and summer, because I am addicted to "white noise" for sleeping- this is because i am by nature such a light sleeper, and the loud fan noise lulls me into sleep. I have had instances of friends coming by my house and (by their accounts) POUNDING on the door - or the phone ringing and ringing- and I never woke up, because of the fan. I CAN believe that these people were beaten- and killed- quite rapidly. For some people, it takes several minutes to "get oriented" once they initially begin to awaken. Based on the info available at present, it seems that the killer KNEW his victims and KNEW their specific sleeping arrangements/locations...

 

[Soulmagent]

Any one remember hearing GuyJr asking micheal on the 911 tape " Micheal who did this to you ?'' I do remember hearing it the first day it was released but i do not think it is on there now as they edited . Just wanted to know if anyone heard it.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Any one remember hearing GuyJr asking micheal on the 911 tape " Micheal who did this to you ?'' I do remember hearing it the first day it was released but i do not think it is on there now as they edited . Just wanted to know if anyone heard it.

I didn't hear this but maybe someone else did. I don't understand why it would be edited though.

Although I believe Michael was in a grave and dying condition when 911 was called and was most likely comatose at that time from the severe brain injuries he had suffered.

imo

 

[kgeaux]

Any one remember hearing GuyJr asking micheal on the 911 tape " Micheal who did this to you ?'' I do remember hearing it the first day it was released but i do not think it is on there now as they edited . Just wanted to know if anyone heard it.

That sure does sound familiar, soul, but I can't "swear" that I heard it. I think I did, but maybe I am mixing up something I heard elsewhere with the 911 call.

 

[Marina2]

When I went to find the article I posted above regarding GH Sr. and his siblings, everyone of the papers had edited out two sentences of the brother-in-law's statement to the press. I remember his statement to include these sentences so I searched for quite awhile before I found the article I linked to. It was the only one I could find that didn't edit his statement after publishing it as he stated. The sentences edited out were:

"Bryant said Guy Heinze Sr.'s wife died a few years ago in Georgia of a drug overdose."

and

"The whole story is so troubling," Bryant said of Heinze and his siblings. "The father never raised one of them."

I don't know why these were taken out but apparently, all the press got the memo, from CNN to The Brunswick News.

GH Jr.'s mother was an IV drug abuser, for years. It's always been said around here among those who knew her that she died of a drug overdose. Her nursing license lapsed in 2005 even though she complied with board orders for drug abuse treatment from 1993. She had died before she renewed the license. My son came home one day after spending the night with GH Jr. and said there was a syringe in the microwave. I didn't let him go over there anymore.

I don't doubt the veracity of the statements Bryant made that were later edited out.
I think a lot of what we first hear about a case can be considered "excited utterances" by the press. We go back to find what we remember and things have changed. I've started saving these first articles and videos because of that. I've searched high and low for the first interview Cindy gave to the local Orlando press after Caylee went "missing". Cindy speaks of Casey leaving to go on vacation and bond with Caylee, etc. There are a lot of statements Cindy made in that interview I wanted to revisit but, for some reason, it's nowhere to be found. Wish I had saved that one.

 

[GOLDHEARTNUMB]

http://www.news4jax.com/news/20909065/detail.html

Grand Jury indites GH today and DA Kelley announced they are seeking the death penalty.

 

[ebbie]

I don't understand why this investigation is so tight lipped? This is the first time I've ever heard of eight people being murdered and the whole thing nearly swept under the media rug. It doesn't even register a blip anymore!

Why why why? What is the advantage? And how come other similar cases can reveal details as they unfold but this one can't?

Don't get it. I really think it hurts the case since people just move on to other headlines.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I don't understand why this investigation is so tight lipped? This is the first time I've ever heard of eight people being murdered and the whole thing nearly swept under the media rug. It doesn't even register a blip anymore!

Why why why? What is the advantage? And how come other similar cases can reveal details as they unfold but this one can't?

Don't get it. I really think it hurts the case since people just move on to other headlines.

It actually protects the integrity of the case.

They just have to be on a case of this enormity. A DA is aware at all times that he must see to it that Jr. receives a fair trial. By having a preliminary hearing (and it is the DAs call whether it is a GJ or PH) could have unduly prejudiced the defendant's right to a fair trial if even the least bit of damaging evidence is known by the potential jury pool.

I am not shocked at all that this is a death penalty case. I would be shocked if they hadn't made it one. This is as bad as it gets. Imo that means the motive is as senseless as the committing of these crimes themselves but just the heinousness of the murders and mass murders with a bludgeoning weapon would make it one.

Also due to the economy the justice system is trying hard not to have change of venues because they are so costly when the trial has to be moved to another town. By not releasing the evidence they have then the defense cannot come back and say that the defendant cant receive a fair trial in that town.

imo

 

[ebbie]

I appreciate your attempt to explain it , OBE. Unfortunately, I have little to no understanding of the criminal justice system so it still is a mystery.

With simple logic, one would that that what is important for one case, keeping the jury pool clean, would be important for another case.

I've heard everything about the Le case down to the suspect's name and girlfriends name. What is the difference? Don't they care about solidifying a case?

Or are you saying that the DA is shooting for a step further than guilty, that is, the death penalty? Is it that he can easily get a guilty verdict but death is more difficult?

I'm saddened to see my post (and OBEs response) from a day ago is it for the last 24 hours..... It's already fading away in people's memories. I read it could be up to two years before he stands trial. By then no one will remember this. We'll have another fresh Dugard story or Ann Le case to occupy us. I'm saddened at this in a way. On the other hand if shutting us out of the know ensures the criminal will be given death, I can handle it.

Anyone know the status of Byron, the toddler? I'm eager to find out if he is going to be ok. Its like a little glimmer of light left. There is nothing on the web I can find.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I appreciate your attempt to explain it , OBE. Unfortunately, I have little to no understanding of the criminal justice system so it still is a mystery.

With simple logic, one would that that what is important for one case, keeping the jury pool clean, would be important for another case.

I've heard everything about the Le case down to the suspect's name and girlfriends name. What is the difference? Don't they care about solidifying a case?

Or are you saying that the DA is shooting for a step further than guilty, that is, the death penalty? Is it that he can easily get a guilty verdict but death is more difficult?

I'm saddened to see my post (and OBEs response) from a day ago is it for the last 24 hours..... It's already fading away in people's memories. I read it could be up to two years before he stands trial. By then no one will remember this. We'll have another fresh Dugard story or Ann Le case to occupy us. I'm saddened at this in a way. On the other hand if shutting us out of the know ensures the criminal will be given death, I can handle it.

Anyone know the status of Byron, the toddler? I'm eager to find out if he is going to be ok. Its like a little glimmer of light left. There is nothing on the web I can find.

It is about protecting the evidence.

I do understand the questions you ask Ebbie but no, it isn't because he is not sure he can get the death penalty if there is a conviction. Death penalty cases are the most serious in our justice system therefore all rules have to apply so that nothing will give the defense attorney an appeal-able issue such as saying he was unable to receive a fair trial because of pretrial publicity. By releasing any of the evidence that could be prejudicial then the DA would have opened up that appellate issue. Also as I stated, states are in dire straights and COVs are so costly. By the DA keeping the evidence against him unseen by the public then they are less likely to be tainted when they start selecting jurors for the trial.

I know it seems unfair but it really is the best thing for everyone, including the Prosecution/defendant and the victims.

I believe that the evidence is so damaging and so detrimental to Jr. that not one word can get out there to the public beyond what has already been released by saying they all were beaten to death.

We have cases here where it goes silent for awhile but when something new happens the thread is pulled up again. The L Cpl. Maria Lauterbach case is one. It went silent for over a year and doesn't have much going on until a trial commences and that will be some time next year.

imo