GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 #10

[bessie]

August 30, 2011

Ex-Roommate Saw Two Sides of McDaniel
“Imagine coming in the first time,” Money said. “You’re coming into a normal school and the first thing you see is your roommate wearing chain mail. ... It was hilarious.”

​

“Stephen believed he was smarter than everybody else,” Money recalled. “I’ve got to be honest with you, I’ve been to schools with a lot of smart people and he’s as smart as anybody I’ve ever met.”
McDaniel, he said, was fascinated, often obsessed, with asking people he’d meet two questions, questions to see if they were, in his opinion, sharp enough.
The first question: Where would you go if there was a zombie invasion?

​

 

[Backwoods]

Absolutely. Very credible witness.

BBM

I agree. Barring unforeseen developments, he should make a very hard-hitting witness for the prosecution. It helps that he comes across as balanced in his perceptions -- that he considered Stephen a friend, thought him super-bright, and acknowledges positive things SM contributed to his life, yet that didn't stop him from recognizing the "creepy" things about him and feeling a responsibility to report the "perfect murder" conversations (and demonstrations!).

I don't know enough about the legal ins-and-out to know how weighty Money's stories will be in the legal evidentiary realm, but they certainly have mighty impact on just a plain human level. In court, I think part of the weight would depend on how well the "details" Money won't go into here match what the prosecution can prove about the murder -- but the whole weight with the jury wouldn't lie there, I think.

I'm pondering this little section of the article and wondering if we are supposed to read between the lines here -- since, otherwise, these sentences don't hang too well together:

QUOTE:
Money feels sorry for McDaniel’s parents.
In the course of the homicide investigation, detectives have said they discovered digital images of child *advertiser censored* on a computer flash drive in McDaniel’s apartment. He faces seven counts of sexual exploitation of children.
“I did consider Stephen a friend ... (but) he creeped me out more than once. In a very eerie, scary way,” Money said, though he would not say why.


On the "Stephen is innocent" side: I've said before I don't favor a theory of an original plan to frame anyone, no matter who the perp, BUT -- if you were looking for someone to frame, if Money's perceptions and revelations are valid (and I have no reason to believe otherwise), Stephen would be a pretty good choice to frame -- what with his obsession about talking to so many, apparently, about "the perfect murder", and an intellectual arrogance that no doubt left many not feeling exactly warm toward him.



Further thoughts: I'm pondering the feeling that Money seems to have that SM truly believed that a zombie invasion would come (and I remember that angelanalyzes has reported that she had similar information). That could just be SM's insistence that people participate in his intellectual game at a deep level. But if he really believes it ... well, that would to me tip things a little toward the view that he may have some type of delusional, perhaps intermittently psychotic disorder. It could be just one of the isolated, not-entire-life-affecting eccentricities of a schizotypal or schizoid personality disorder, but it could also be, say, something along the schizophreniform disorders spectrum -- and that would be a different ballgame.



Also, I am still not ready to say I think antisocial PD/sociopathy/psychopathy applies here, but I am not ruling that out, seeing more possible evidence toward that now.

 

[Backwoods]

Wouldn't it have been to the prosecution's advantage for Patterson is say no, DD did not have a master key? I can't think of a reason for Patterson to dance around that question except that he did not want to admit that DD had access to the same areas that SM did.

Unless they feared that by saying he didn't (DD I mean) they might give ammunition to the defense to suggest that he, as maintenance guy, would normally have one -- and thus imply that he planted his in SM's apartment. (Personally, I agree with SuperSleuth that if DD had "multiple keys" issued, to fit many locks in the apartment, he wouldn't necessarily really need a master key as well and so might not have been issued one.)

eta: as I read along, catching up, I see this all got pretty well hashed out, sorry to be echo-y here

 

[Backwoods]

I don't think they have to point to DD to clear McD. They just have to show someone else could have done it. And if they can show LE did not check into other people, DD or anyone else within reason, then it can be bad. Since LG left a key outside, anyone who knew the key was outside could be a suspect. They did not find the proverbial smoking gun on McD, so they should have checked out a lot of other people.

The dogs were not presented an opportunity to check out anyone else's apartment, including those who do not live there but searched for her that night. They could claim one of those people killed her*. It looks like the dogs hit everywhere they go, so the jury could dismiss all of that information without having a comparison with other locations where they did not hit for this case. The people who came to look for her should have been checked out thoroughly, including searches in their homes, at least with the dogs if not a full search. The people she has been in contact with right before her disappearance should have been checked out more. That would include those in the running group. A very good chance the group and their sexually charged names and the behaviors of the group will be scrutinized, even if it is objected to, the jury could hear it and wonder.

The narrowed scrutiny by LE and the lack of ruling out others fully will bite them in the butt if presented to the jury in the right way. All they have to do is point out X, Y, and Z are evidence items not found connecting McD to this crime. Evidence items A, B, and C could possibly connect him, but 10 other people had similar connections. Reasonable doubt can creep in.

I believe the CP will not be presented unless they can make a direct connection from the photos to the body. Same with the postings. A direct connection will have to be made. The former roommate will probably get to testify, but he will be seriously discredited when the full story has to be told, including his part in the conversation and how long ago the conversation happened and his memory on other events.

* Another theory which could be used in the trial to show reasonable doubt:
What if the killer were one of the other searchers? Once the killer knew people were concerned enough to start looking, he or she placed the torso in their trunk. Then put the body in the trashcan either before the others arrived to search, or after they looked everywhere and the police had been there and left the first time. Not likely, but it could be presented as a possibility. Or even if the searchers called other people, and the supposed killer couldn't come look for her, but did manage to take a road trip to dump the body close to her home before LE started looking too hard. That would throw LE off the trail of the real killer. While those are not likely scenarios, I can see them as plausible options to show reasonable doubt. Especially, since LE did not investigate those people fully. At least, not that they have revealed.

about the bolded: I've always had thoughts kind of along this line, not necessarily one of the searchers, but just someone who lived close enough in the area to observe that folks were starting to look for Lauren.

 

[~SuperSleuth~]

Bessie can you find a *nail* smiley and add it to our library?
Sounds like McD's ex-roomie has an excellent memory to me.

How about something appropriate for SM?

 

[Backwoods]

Reviewing a bit tonight and found the MPD press release from July 7th that mentions the second canine search. (Only the first one was referenced in Friday's hearing.)

http://maconpolice.us/?p=942

http://www.newscentralga.com/news/l...Dooly-Sheriffs-Office-K-9-Dogs-125214739.html

It's not too clear to me from this if in the second search the dogs actually went into Lauren's apartment...? (Or just around "Lauren's apartment complex".) It seems odd to me, if so, that they wouldn't go back in Stephen's too. I'm sure there could be reasons to do that, though, I just can't think of what exactly they would be.

 

[al66pine]

McDaniel, he said, was fascinated, often obsessed, with asking people he’d meet two questions, ....​

Q1 Where would you go if there was a zombie invasion?
“He’d want to know if you could find a defensible position and if you could find a place you wouldn’t run out of food easily."
Q2 If you could plan the perfect murder, how would you do it?​

Still, Money said, other people have also heard McDaniel mention perfect-murder scenarios.
“Stephen would get really excited when he told his version.” ​

Read more: http://www.macon.com/2011/08/30/1682872/ex-roommate-saw-2-sides-of-mcdaniel.html#ixzz1WUhDlIVn​

=================================================================================

Per article, TM was roommate w. SMcD for a semester, starting in Aug. 2007.

Those two questions are no ordinary ice breakers.
The above plus the ex-roommate's recollections expressed elsewhere in the article w/seem to
raise SMcD's interest in the perfect murder to a whole new level.

Pretty much precludes defense from dismissing ex-roomies' memories about
SMcD's interest & plan as a brief, one-time conversation, oh, so many years ago.

MOO.

 

[Backwoods]

McDaniel, he said, was fascinated, often obsessed, with asking people he’d meet two questions, ....
Q1 Where would you go if there was a zombie invasion?
“He’d want to know if you could find a defensible position and if you could find a place you wouldn’t run out of food easily."
Q2 If you could plan the perfect murder, how would you do it?​

source: http://www.macon.com/2011/08/30/1682872/ex-roommate-saw-2-sides-of-mcdaniel.html#ixzz1WUSsW1go

======================================================

Per article, TM was roommate w. SMcD for a semester, starting in Aug. 2007.

Those two questions are no ordinary ice breakers.
The above plus the ex-roommate's recollections expressed elsewhere in the article w/seem to
raise SMcD's interest in the perfect murder to a whole new level.

Pretty much precludes defense from dismissing ex-roomies' memories about
SMcD's interest & plan to a brief, one-time conversation, oh, so many years ago.

MOO.

about what I highlighted in red:
Wonder why just for a semester, what the story is there? Maybe not pertinent, but I'm just curious -- was it because TM got just too creeped out ... moved in with a closer friend ...just one of those roommate things? ...

 

[PsychoMom]

snipped

Per article, TM was roommate w. SMcD for a semester, starting in Aug. 2007.

Those two questions are no ordinary ice breakers.
The above plus the ex-roommate's recollections expressed elsewhere in the article w/seem to
raise SMcD's interest in the perfect murder to a whole new level.

Pretty much precludes defense from dismissing ex-roomies' memories about
SMcD's interest & plan to a brief, one-time conversation, oh, so many years ago.

MOO.

For it to play out well in front of the jury, they will need more than one person. I don't know if the roommate can testify about what was discussed with third parties.

 

[PsychoMom]

about the bolded: I've always had thoughts kind of along this line, not necessarily one of the searchers, but just someone who lived close enough in the area to observe that folks were starting to look for Lauren.

That creeps me out. My daughter was 'living close enough in the area to observe', even if something happened in the middle of the night. It makes me think about her roommates and their other neighbors. YIKES!

I see a real chance of a jury not being able to convict McD without some direct connection with forensics. All these gray areas open a door for reasonable doubt. The FBI has not made any DNA connection thus far, from what was stated. I find that very disturbing. I really would like to know if they found ANY DNA evidence (not matching LG, that is), at all. Evidence that doesn't match McD, but it is there. No evidence could mean a few things. But evidence matching someone else could blow the roof off the whole thing.

 

[Backwoods]

That creeps me out. My daughter was 'living close enough in the area to observe', even if something happened in the middle of the night. It makes me think about her roommates and their other neighbors. YIKES!

I see a real chance of a jury not being able to convict McD without some direct connection with forensics. All these gray areas open a door for reasonable doubt. The FBI has not made any DNA connection thus far, from what was stated. I find that very disturbing. I really would like to know if they found ANY DNA evidence (not matching LG, that is), at all. Evidence that doesn't match McD, but it is there. No evidence could mean a few things. But evidence matching someone else could blow the roof off the whole thing.

Absolutely could

eta: and sorry I creeped you out!

 

[PsychoMom]

Absolutely could

eta: and sorry I creeped you out!

Just makes me glad she moved. She is still in Macon, but not as close, and better security options.

 

[Backwoods]

For it to play out well in front of the jury, they will need more than one person. I don't know if the roommate can testify about what was discussed with third parties.

If Stephen blabbed on about the "perfect murder" stuff as much as TM indicates, they may well have several witnesses to that behavior -- though maybe not quite as in-depth as a former roomie.

I do wonder if that behavior is something that continued on -- or did it phase out --pop back up intermittently, what? (And same wondering about the zombie invasion stuff.) Though some don't think it matters that Money's story is from a few years ago, I think it could possibly matter.

 

[SouthernKate]

about what I highlighted in red:
Wonder why just for a semester, what the story is there? Maybe not pertinent, but I'm just curious -- was it because TM got just too creeped out ... moved in with a closer friend ...just one of those roommate things? ...

That might not be anything too strange. I lived in a similar apartment situation when I went to Mercer (all had separate rooms with locks, shared a kitchen and living room). One of our roomates changed out second semester bc of study abroad - so it could be anything, really.

However, if it were me and my roomate kept talking about a perfect murder and everytime I said, oh I'm stronger or well, I can just lock my door, and he shut both those statements down as he did with TM..I'd be OUT. That's just not right.

Like I said in the parking lot thread, there were ALOT of red flags. College students discuss many things, off the wall or normal. But repeated talks about murder are just not something that seem ok in any situation.

Now, I'm definitely not saying TM is to blame at all - like Kaitlyn said in the article, not his fault at all. And like he said - what could he have done? Nothing unless McD had actually DONE something at that time. And I am very glad he did come forward to LE. He seems like a very credible witness and an intelligent guy.

 

[Sandstorm]

Bessie can you find a *nail* smiley and add it to our library?

Sounds like McD's ex-roomie has an excellent memory to me.

Excellent memory - absolutely! I seriously doubt TM would be able to forget McD's questions, comments, and plans with the details of committing the perfect murder no matter how hard he has tried to erase it from his memory.
No one has ever asked me such a question, not even once. Nor have I discussed a perfect murder plan with anyone ever. So IF someone were ever, in my circle of friends in college or elsewhere, to disclose murder plan details even once - I would never be able to forget such a bizarre topic of conversation nor the person with the plan. According to TM, McD was thoroughly excited about his plan, enjoyed discussing it, and made it part of their conversation more than once. TM has probably had nightmares regarding his conversations with McD. Another scary bit: McD had back up detail plans... if TM locked the door, McD could get inside by picking the lock...and never mind if you have had military combat training: " I'd find a way to bum-rush you with cholorform or something..."
I only hope LE videos TM's statement - you just never know what is going to happen...

http://www.macon.com/2011/08/30/1682872/ex-roommate-saw-2-sides-of-mcdaniel.html

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

That might not be anything too strange. I lived in a similar apartment situation when I went to Mercer (all had separate rooms with locks, shared a kitchen and living room). One of our roomates changed out second semester bc of study abroad - so it could be anything, really.

However, if it were me and my roomate kept talking about a perfect murder and everytime I said, oh I'm stronger or well, I can just lock my door, and he shut both those statements down as he did with TM..I'd be OUT. That's just not right.

Like I said in the parking lot thread, there were ALOT of red flags. College students discuss many things, off the wall or normal. But repeated talks about murder are just not something that seem ok in any situation.

Now, I'm definitely not saying TM is to blame at all - like Kaitlyn said in the article, not his fault at all. And like he said - what could he have done? Nothing unless McD had actually DONE something at that time. And I am very glad he did come forward to LE. He seems like a very credible witness and an intelligent guy.

BBM - Heck yes. That's just scary. As soon as I read that bit about the locks not mattering, I got chills & my heart sank. What can I say, I love my security systems (simple though they may be) and it would really scare me to hear someone say that no matter how I tried to protect myself, it didn't matter - they could get me anyhow.

 

[AgentFrankLundy]

Quote of the day and morning cupcake goes to al66pine "Those two questions are no ordinary ice breakers" :cupcake:

TM seems very credible. Good article . McD's goose is cooked

 

[Sandstorm]

Quote of the day and morning cupcake goes to al66pine "Those two questions are no ordinary ice breakers" :cupcake:

TM seems very credible. Good article . McD's goose is cooked

Agent Lundy, you are correct. Great article and very revealing.
Between the SoL posts and Thadeus Money's detailed, eye witness of McD's mindset I think McD can exit Catatonic Freeway take a right turn on to Guilty Road.
Looking at the forest and not just the trees.

http://www.macon.com/2011/08/30/1682872/ex-roommate-saw-2-sides-of-mcdaniel.html

 

[PsychoMom]

I wonder why Money's dreams were "dashed" and he was discharged from the military. And he had left the Citadel for some reason. If he had issues that caused him to leave the Citadel, or if the dashing of his dreams was due to something on his part, it could make him look not so good. We know what he says now, but do we know anything about him as a person, especially during that time frame? Those things could be an issue in trial.



Not saying to sleuth him. Just commenting on the article.

 

[Sandstorm]

I wonder why Money's dreams were "dashed" and he was discharged from the military. And he had left the Citadel for some reason. If he had issues that caused him to leave the Citadel, or if the dashing of his dreams was due to something on his part, it could make him look not so good. We know what he says now, but do we know anything about him as a person, especially during that time frame? Those things could be an issue in trial.



Not saying to sleuth him. Just commenting on the article.

PsychoMom - this is what I am talking about - Looking at the trees and not the forest.

Thad Money is a law abiding citizen.
Thad Money has not been charged with murder and dismemberment, 2 counts of burglary, or 7 counts of child pornagraphy aka pedophilia .
Thad Money has stepped up to the plate to give assistance to LE on the case so that the Giddings may get some justice.

http://www.edwardjones.com/en_US/fa/index.html&CIRN=520004