GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 # 4

[SmoothOperator]

Thought this was good representation of just how well luminol works.. It's a split picture side by side.. Left side is what the carpet and wall looks like to the naked eye and the right said is that exact same area after sprayed with luminol and lights are dimmed.. Pretty remarkable and one could see how that it'd be thought that everything was cleaned up. Because to the naked eye you'd never know that there was ever blood there..
Lots more luminol info at the link:http://science.howstuffworks.com/luminol1.htm

 

[WhoaJo]

First time posting, folks, so please excuse any bumbling on the links and quote boxes - or the lack thereof - right up front!

Chief Burns said that his main reason for the presser today was to address untruths in the form of rumors. After each one he told us, "That's a rumor." In other words, "that one's also a bunch of bupkis, folks!"

http://www.13wmaz.com/video/live/default.aspx

Here's the quote from the link that I think is key, and that can help us to limit our wild speculation:

"One...said a certain public official told a group that he was speaking to, that McDaniel is not even a person of interest, and we're just saying that to keep the public from panicking, and that we have a serial killer on the loose in Macon - that's a rumor."

IMO, that's all we need to know: McD IS a POI - not a decoy, not merely a condom filcher, but a serious POI in this homicide. With the info LE already has on their POI, the chief is confident enough to tell us not to worry about a serial killer being out there in relation to Lauren's homicide.

When asked if they're closer to making an arrest this week than they were last week at this time, Chief Burns response is that those 4 who have all of the evidence are meeting with the DA early next week to discuss what they have thus far. That indicates to me that - if the DA agrees - they may have enough to make an arrest as early as next week.

 

[bessie]

I suppose there is no rush since he's sitting there anyway... except that if he isn't their guy, he's being publicly torn to shreds for no reason.

To whoever has an opinion: What would be the harm in charging him now, if they have probable cause? I keep hearing the words "jeopardize the investigation". In what way would it be jeopardized if they charged him before all the evidence is back? The evidence is what it is, isn't it? Thanks in advance for your ideas.

Once charged, the clock starts ticking. In a complex case, naturally, LE and the prosecutor will extend their prep time for as long as the law allows to ensure a solid case.

Here's part of your answer. More at the link.

(a) Any person accused of a capital offense may enter a demand for speedy trial at the term of court at which the indictment is found or at the next succeeding regular term thereafter; or, by special permission of the court, the defendant may at any subsequent term thereafter demand a speedy trial.

http://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2010/title-17/chapter-7/article-7/17-7-171/

Smooth, the short answer to you grand jury question is that the law varies by state. Some states require a grand jury indictment for capital offenses. I don't believe that's the case in Georgia. Pretty sure I posted that in an earlier thread. No time to look up the statute. One of the attorneys will explain, I'm sure.

 

[PsychoMom]

This link should take you right to it, it's a snippet from the presser today beginning with the part where Burns dismisses the rumor that someone involved with the investigation has been going around saying McDaniel is not even a POI and that this is all a big coverup:

http://www.13wmaz.com/video/1082570803001/1/RAW-Chief-Mike-Burns-Dismisses-Rumors-in-Giddings-Case

In the raw video it begins at mark 2:29.
He just has such a tone of incredulity in his voice as he says the whole thing, like he wants to say "oh please!" but is holding back.

The "oh please!" look was about serial killer rumor, which all by its little lonesome has made news. I did not see that as related to SM alone. The rumor of serial killers has taken on a life of its own and that is what bothered him. I don't think it is a serial killer. I think it is someone who knew LG. I am simply not convinced by funny hair and clothes and awkward public speaking that SM did it. At least, I am not convinced yet. I want to hear they have proof. Why? Because I want to know the right person is in jail. I want the killer off the streets whether it is SM or Donny Osmond. (Sorry, tried to pick someone random and he seemed the least likely killer in my mind)

As for in the Fox special. I did not see ANY eye rolling. I saw a man looking all around, most likely at people standing off to the side. As a former teacher, child & adolescent therapist, and a mom, I have seen more than my share of eye rolling.

 

[bessie]

Think about this -- suppose Burns IS planning on wrapping up the investigation by first of next week (charging SMD). He needs the concurrence of Winters to present that charge to the Grand Jury.

So, he's not going to tip his hand now by saying the meeting with Winters is to discuss charging SMD with the homicide. His evident frustration is that the rumors flying about make it difficult for him to complete this investigation to his entire satisfaction (or at least as well as the FBI results allow), and he's not going to be forced into tipping his hand by some reporter at a press conference he called to say "The investigation is going smoothly; quit worrying; trust me."

:goodpost:

 

[noZme]

Having the FBI labs sign off on DNA or other evidence is most desirable to present to the Grand Jury, however MPD may already have links to McD. Mercer University's med school, Emory, Medical College of GA & any number of places could have run preliminary tests.

 

[angelanalyzes]

Thought this was good representation of just how well luminol works.. It's a split picture side by side.. Left side is what the carpet and wall looks like to the naked eye and the right said is that exact same area after sprayed with luminol and lights are dimmed.. Pretty remarkable and one could see how that it'd be thought that everything was cleaned up. Because to the naked eye you'd never know that there was ever blood there..
Lots more luminol info at the link:http://science.howstuffworks.com/luminol1.htm

Great photo example of why police may not have had the easiest time spotting evidence of a dismemberment if the perp had days to clean up the scene.

 

[tomkat]

Well I dont' think his attitude really matters but if it were me and I had to tell all of you and the anxiously awaiting public, I had NOTHING to offer, I'd have that look too. haha. he wants it solved but has nothing and can do nothing at this moment. Defeat until more and he probalby hated saying that......................TIME WILL TELL

 

[clkwrks]

I wonder if luminol reacts to raw hamburger juice.

I imagine it would. Here's what I've learned from following the Amanda Knox case. Luminol reacts to a number of things including blood, iron, copper, and bleach. Luminol would be used to detect invisible signs of whatever. The investigator would use something like a TMB test on areas of interest to help determine if the reaction is from blood then follow that up with DNA collection. If they had a lot of reactions through the three apartments (they did go through enough to have to borrow more) then it could take a very long time to sort through everything.

 

[ThinMan]

First time posting, folks, . . . <snipped>

When asked if they're closer to making an arrest this week than they were last week at this time, Chief Burns response is that those 4 who have all of the evidence are meeting with the DA early next week to discuss what they have thus far. That indicates to me that - if the DA agrees - they may have enough to make an arrest as early as next week.

WhoaJo(howitz?) . . . Glad you've joined us.

Thanks for pointing out the immediate context of Burns' new statement that he will meet with Winters first of next week. It's in direct response to the question of "are you closer to an arrest" that he says "I'm meeting with the DA next week." That, to my thinking, is when he's telling us (implicitly, without laying his cards on the table sooner than he has to) that we may have an arrest next week. As I pointed out earlier, the bond hearing set for Aug. 4 is one deadline that Winters and Burns want to avoid. If the evidence they have so far justifies an arrest, expect it next week.

 

[PDUBBY]

There are only two reasons to explain (in my opinion) why he hasn't been charged:

1. There has been no evidence that can tie him to the case and/or implicate him. (that's been examined so far by the FBI and has yielded results)

Or

2. He didn't do it.

I can't imagine that if anything that had been returned so far would implicate him as the killer that they would just be waiting on an arrest. This isn't to say he didn't do it, just that they can't implicate him.

I disagree. They know they don't have to tip their hand until his bond date. I think they're meeting next week with the DA to give over all the evidence collected and analyzed thus far so they can charge McD before his bond hearing. As long as he remains in lockup, there is no reason to rush to charge him.

I'm not convinced he did it but all of the actions (and inactions) of the MPD indicate that they think he did it and are building a case against him.

 

[Givsmetheshivers]

Awww, I thought we'd have an arrest today.

OK...I may have this story a little backwards, as I heard it several years ago....but I heard on NPR an interview of the wife of a man who had been charged with rape. They had DNA evidence but they were waiting on the results. She said that it is absolutely not like it is on TV where the results come back quickly and that the crime labs were SOOO backed up on cases and so low on funding that it was going to take like 2 years because other types of cases took precedence. She said that her husband was so adamant that he was innocent that she raised the money and the state had it tested by a private lab. It cost them multiple thousands of dollars. The good news is, he was innocent.

I am sure this case is one of the ones that takes precedence, but it does take a great deal longer than what is shown on TV.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Um, I would totally be buying a new refrigerator regardless of when it's returned.

Yeah, but the next time anyone sees that refrigerator, it will probably be in a courtroom.

 

[Wondergirl]

Man, am I glad I watched Burns' live telecast just now!! I just went on WS here before noon and almost fell out of my seat over all the negativity. Burns looked fine to me, no odd body language, and he looked the public straight in the eyes and didn't shift his eyes left ( which indicates lying), and he still had his same cute little sense of humor around the media and speculation. I take this conference as a very positive message. And Chief Burns said he was getting with the three other people, 2 lead detectives and Major Stone and discuss the homicide case today or at least this week and get their facts together before presenting to Winters. Yay!!!

I will take responsibility here for the negative posts (cup is half empty).

So sorry to have given you a false interpretation, based on MY interpretation of the presser.

VERY happy you watched it yourself, and came to your own conclusion.

I will give you a bit of background on where my cynical observations come from (if you will):

1. A murder happened to an innocent woman, and LE found lots of blood evidence, including absolutely horrible evidence at the scene. They proceeded to announce that the public was not in any danger, that the perp likely knew her killer (all the evidence pointed to that), and indeed her boyfriend/ex-boyfriend were the main suspects.

2. For over a year, LE did not make an arrest, but continued to reassure the public that the victim had been specifically targeted (though no arrest)

3. The perp abducted (then murdered) another victim, and LE was able to draw a connection to the first murdered victim. Turns out there were many, many victims. LE immediately issued a warning to the public, that a serial offender was on the loose, after they had adamantly stated there was not for more than a year.

Not only was LE totally, 100% absolutely wrong, when faced with overwhelming physical evidence (that they could not arrest for), the public had been incorrectly told that there was not a serial offender on the loose.

There WAS a serial offender on the loose. There WAS a false sense of security. EVERYONE thought it was the ex-boyfriend (and he wasn't already behind bars on some obscure charge).

So, call me jaded, but I have seen things. They do not necessarily apply here. I will step back and not post so much of my observations, so as not to cause a skewed anaylsis of the situation in Lauren's case.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

So now authorities have to have an "airtight case" before they can arrest and charge someone? What happened to the probable cause standard?IMO, the only thing we know for certain is that there is no "smoking gun", and if they don't charge SM before he gets out next Thursday, they not only don't have a smoking gun, but they don't even have probable cause. That is not a particularly high standard.

I wonder if luminol reacts to raw hamburger juice. Does anyone know if they brought the refrigerator back to the vacant apartment?

Arresting ANYONE in this case with nothing more than probable cause would certainly be unwise. Give them time to do their job. We obviously don't know what they do have and they understand better than the general public how much is at stake here. Rushing to judgment and making mistakes wouldn't help anything.

 

[tomkat]

Southern Comfort wrote: I suppose there is no rush since he's sitting there anyway... except that if he isn't their guy, he's being publicly torn to shreds for no reason.

To whoever has an opinion: What would be the harm in charging him now, if they have probable cause? I keep hearing the words "jeopardize the investigation". In what way would it be jeopardized if they charged him before all the evidence is back? The evidence is what it is, isn't it? Thanks in advance for your ideas.

-------

Your kidding right?!@(^ I'd hate like all to know our police force could come in our house and becuase some narcissistic cops think he knows more than anyone else, WITHOUT EVIDENCE connected to someone, ARREST AND CHARGE ME WITH MURDER>.........

Our rights, if not, it'd be a socialist country! No rights, firing squad, no thanks.

I feel for this guy now, IF he's NOT GUILTY.......he'll never live it down. Never.

 

[SuperMom1995]

Yeah, but the next time anyone sees that refrigerator, it will probably be in a courtroom.

I hope so!

 

[PsychoMom]

Southern Comfort wrote: I suppose there is no rush since he's sitting there anyway... except that if he isn't their guy, he's being publicly torn to shreds for no reason.

To whoever has an opinion: What would be the harm in charging him now, if they have probable cause? I keep hearing the words "jeopardize the investigation". In what way would it be jeopardized if they charged him before all the evidence is back? The evidence is what it is, isn't it? Thanks in advance for your ideas.

-------

Your kidding right?!@(^ I'd hate like all to know our police force could come in our house and becuase some narcissistic cops think he knows more than anyone else, WITHOUT EVIDENCE connected to someone, ARREST AND CHARGE ME WITH MURDER>.........

Our rights, if not, it'd be a socialist country! No rights, firing squad, no thanks.

I feel for this guy now, IF he's NOT GUILTY.......he'll never live it down. Never.

I believe he meant ALL the evidence didn't have to be back. However, we, as a community, would expect the evidence thus far would be pointing towards SM if he is the killer. If they actually have the evidence so far showing him to be the killer, then charge him. Then the other evidence can be completed over time.

 

[SuperMom1995]

Obviously just speculating, but thinking about the nature of the mass email that MCD sent out to the entire class, I wonder if he and Lauren could have gotten into a heated political debate, and he lost it...

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Obviously just speculating, but thinking about the nature of the mass email that MCD sent out to the entire class, I wonder if he and Lauren could have gotten into a heated political debate, and he lost it...

Not likely.