GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 # 8

[Backwoods]

I may be just wrong about this, but I don't get why people are saying nothing weird has emerged about his past life or childhood. I feel like there were rumors or stuff said from basically Day 1. In fact, at the very beginning the crux of a lot of arguments fell on two sides-OMG he is a total weirdo he must have done it!!!! Or, OMG just because he is a total weirdo doesn't mean he did it! I know a lot of that talk would be dismissed as "rumor" or hearsay (even though some came from people who know him, worked with him, or were classmates) but I would not say there has been absolutely no talk of him being a bit strange or off.

Does that make him guilty? No, of course not. In fact, I was one of the people being mildly defensive when people were condemning him for liking some nerd stuff. But I also think the culmination of statements we have gotten does not point to him being just a normal, average, sweet guy that everyone liked and there isn't a word that goes against that.

I think what was being asked about was more like a history of violent or really disruptive behavior rather than just "weirdness".

 

[Wondergirl]

I agree they may not be overly obvious, but something should come out. Even if he was bullied extensively, it would have come out by now. None of that is. Not a drop. That is pretty strange if it were the case. That doesn't mean he is innocent. But it doesn't mean he is guilty, either.

I think it is a good idea to consider where and how the deviance could have developed if he is the perpetrator. We do have to expand on what we know to some degree and imagine what it could or couldn't mean, but we have to have something to build on. If we don't, then what does it mean if he wasn't a basket case, and he wasn't obsessed with her, and he really was only polite to her but otherwise didn't think about her? That makes a whole different story.

We have no history or indication that he was any of the bad things people are ascribing to him. So, why would a basically boring guy who is not interested in the woman next door all that much and never had anything he did that was really bad in his life suddenly decide to kill and dismember a neighbor?

Thinking there was no rhyme or reason to him doing this is even scarier. Or it could mean they need to look elsewhere. It is a quandary.

BBM: Because he is crazy? :waitasec:

 

[Backwoods]

I agree extensive abuse could be a springboard for multiple things. I have not heard any information indicating he was abused in his childhood, but it may come out. However, even those abused in childhood tend to have some behaviors that start popping out. Not all, but many. It is much more prevalent to see the acting out behavior in children if the behavior is going to continue into adulthood. Some cover it well, too well. And if it does come out there was extensive abuse in his early life, it could be an indicator of some underlying issues. I would expect to see more behaviors that are deviant by adolescence though.

The condoms are such a gray area. We do not really know what the story is behind those. It does make for great press and drama, but I am worried that is the extent of the story. Until we know what the story is, we don't know if it was a random prank, or scavenger hunt from some idiotic game, or if he was a creeper stalker and took them for the thrill. It leaves a big hole in the story. I wish we did know. I guess that part will come out later, though.

The victimization theory is a good one. I hope we can find some information to support that one or clear it out.

bolding above by me for focus

I hear ya! On the face of it, it's really easy to believe it's some kind of fetishistic theft that could be the prelude to the kind of crime angelaanalyzes has theorized. (Though I have to ponder --condoms, not panties...? Sexual orientation confusion? More on that later...)

On the flip side, though, we REALLY don't know very much about it at all! And I, too, wish we knew more. It does leave a very big hole.

 

[Backwoods]

BBM: Because he is crazy? :waitasec:

Could be.

 

[MaconMom]

Yes, I agree, that could have been the source. And don't think he would have too readily revealed that.

Maybe it could have even been linked to him liking to scratch other people. Maybe he just liked scratching? I have no idea.

FWIW, I think the scratches came from LG. But, just wanted to offer up another theory I thought about.

 

[Backwoods]

Maybe it could have even been linked to him liking to scratch other people. Maybe he just liked scratching? I have no idea.

FWIW, I think the scratches came from LG. But, just wanted to offer up another theory I thought about.

Thanks for offering it. I'm theorizing on both sides of the question, still, and I don't think that's a bad thing.

 

[PsychoMom]

Maybe it could have even been linked to him liking to scratch other people. Maybe he just liked scratching? I have no idea.

FWIW, I think the scratches came from LG. But, just wanted to offer up another theory I thought about.

I think LG is the first thought for most of us, but we should look at other options. Once you look at other options, it helps you rule out why this one works better than that one. So, I am right there with ya!

 

[theengineer]

I am curious. Since you claim to know all these people involved in the case so closely, first of all, have you been accepted as an expert in that area here? I know there is a process to becoming an expert. If so, great! We can pick your brain thoroughly about what the family thinks and what they have seen or heard. And second of all, what behavioral examples have they given to support the infatuation theory? Not just feelings, but true actions that back up that belief.

Certainly a good question, but i think the same can be asked of you. You have attempted to diagnose psychological disorders and provide your expertise on many of the psychological aspects of this case. My assumption, based on your comments, is that you are a nurse. Nurses are not medically licensed to diagnose unless under the direct supervision of a physician, and then they aren't making a diagnosis, they are only making a suggestion or recommendation, as a physician must approve and sign off on their charts. Have you been verified on this site as a medical expert in psychiatry?

 

[PsychoMom]

Certainly a good question, but i think the same can be asked of you. You have attempted to diagnose psychological disorders and provide your expertise on many of the psychological aspects of this case. My assumption, based on your comments, is that you are a nurse. Nurses are not medically licensed to diagnose unless under the direct supervision of a physician, and then they aren't making a diagnosis, they are only making a suggestion or recommendation, as a physician must approve and sign off on their charts. Have you been verified on this site as a medical expert in psychiatry?

I have been verified as a mental health professional.

Actually, I have avoided making diagnoses on here. I have clarified what differing diagnoses do or do not mean. I am not crazy about diagnosing people online.

FYI, I am not a nurse.

 

[theengineer]

I have been verified as a mental health professional.

Actually, I have avoided making diagnoses on here. I have clarified what differing diagnoses do or do not mean. I am not crazy about diagnosing people online.

FYI, I am not a nurse.

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[PsychoMom]

Thank you for the clarification.

It's where my screen name came from though. I specialize in Psychology and I am a Mom. Hence, PsychoMom.

And if it helps, I diagnose people daily in my real job. That's why I make the mediocre bucks.

 

[tomkat]

Been lurking a lot as I'm outa my field on this case, but this sentence struck me as very interesting. When someone has made me his or her project, it was not a pleasant situation. I felt really looked down upon and condescended to even though this particular individual had been my friend and had many good qualities...even though people outside the situation thought that the person was nothing but lovely to me, and couldn't understand how I could feel anything but gratitude.

Does anyone think that this kind of situation could be a factor in this case?

Edited to add: if anything it made me feel more disenfranchised.

Yes I did think of that very early on. I think it was an article about the LG family I read, and how the mother or sister of LG had stated how LG would urge SM to be more outgoing, always inviting him to things, telling him to smile more, and suggesting he not be so shy. I thought that maybe SM resented that. No implications intended, just observations.

 

[bessie]

Still catching up, so not sure if this was posted earlier.

Coming Monday: Chat with Reporters Following the Lauren Giddings Case

Macon.com and Telegraph staff writers Amy Leigh Womack and Joe Kovac Jr. will be online Monday, Aug. 15, at 1 p.m. to discuss the Lauren Giddings homicide.

 

[bessie]

It's where my screen name came from though. I specialize in Psychology and I am a Mom. Hence, PsychoMom.

And if it helps, I diagnose people daily in my real job. That's why I make the mediocre bucks.

Can you clarify for us a bit? Thanks.

 

[Macontime]

Hypothetical
The perp buys all the rain ponchos walmart has and a Stanley hacksaw. He watches and waits and when the proper time presents itself he acts.he dresses from head to toe in plastic to ensure none of his Dna. Is left for le to find. He renders LG helpless some how. Very quietly.
Places her body In her bath tub. Then sets up for the dismemberment. Spreading the ponchos and using duct tape to join them until he has a sterile mock room. This would take at the very least an hour to an hour and a half( he couldn't have done it prior. Because. He didn't know when LG would be back. Remember the perplexing is trying hard not to leave a trace of himself so by now he is sweating horribly and more than likely beginning to become dehydrated. And weaker.
Next he would have to bleed the body out, since the body is in the tub its best. To do it there. This will take at least an hour or two without the body being hung by the feet. So four hours in and the perplexing is still wearing his sterile suit and is getting weaker and weaker.
Once bled out its time to move the body into the makeshift sterile room. But rigor has set in so the perplexing starts. Cutting the legs and arms in the tub with the water running. This. Would take several. Hours. One by one he wraps the limp and takes them into the sterile room, then he removes the head and carries it and goes back for the torso.
Once in the room he notices it is almost daylight and he is exhausted. So he cutsvthe limbs smaller and bags them into one construction grade trash bag. The head in a separate bag and then rolls the torso up in plastic and places it in a bag.
Then moves the limbs and head to his car and the torso to the downstairs fridge. He has to make 3 trips. Lastly he must clean the crime scene, armed with bleach, paprrtowels, ammonia and water he starts cleaning the bathroom. Then he must very,very carefully take apart the sterile room. Ensuring no Dna is left. This would require two more larg trash bags.and two more trips down stairs to his car.
It just doesn't add up to me.

This is the only scenio I can imagine if the apartment was the murder scene. It would have to be clean perfectly and planned meticulously.
I for one can not phantom one person doing all this perfectly in 8 hrs, especially in a special suit.
I feel the murder had to happen some where else and the torso was brought back for either some sic pleasure or so local pd would find it and the id would be easy.I feel in the pit of my stomach that LG was murdered some place else and only the torso was recovered.
One other item from my point less ramblings. Has it been said what clothes LG. Had on and where are they?
Imo she was taken to a secluded spot and was dismember there.
Please chime in and help fill in the absurd portion, if not all of the post lol thanks

 

[WhoaJo]

Yes I did think of that very early on. I think it was an article about the LG family I read, and how the mother or sister of LG had stated how LG would urge SM to be more outgoing, always inviting him to things, telling him to smile more, and suggesting he not be so shy. I thought that maybe SM resented that. No implications intended, just observations.

Let's take it easy here and not blame the victim. We can't judge LG's heart when she tried to be a neighbor to SM.

I understand PlainJaneDoe's feelings of being condescended to when taken on as a "project." However, I'm pretty sure she didn't resent it to the point of offing the person.

 

[pearl]

I have a question. I've been thinking about it off and on since I read the article where SM's mother says she buys him blue shirts because it is her favorite color. Does it sound reasonable that the mother could have decided that Lauren would be a good girlfriend for SM and harped on him about it for a long time? Could he possibly have created a relationship to tell his mother about so she would shut her mouth about it?

 

[PsychoMom]

Can you clarify for us a bit? Thanks.

I don't want to tell too much about me personally. I work in regional medical facility in the mental health field. I complete crisis evaluations and determine what, if any, treatment patients need. I provide services to two of the area hospitals. In the past, I have worked in outpatient and inpatient facilities providing therapeutic treatment which I determined to be the best course of action for each individual patient. I worked with individuals and groups, some for a few sessions, some for several months or even longer. I do not handle medications, nor do I become involved in the physical care of my patients. If they need help in those areas, I connect them to the correct resources, which, of course, is right there working as part of the team caring for the patients.

I tend to work with much of the chronically mentally ill. Many of them are some of the most intensely mentally ill in the area. We have several mental hospitals in our direct catchment area, so the population tends to gather there. Plus, working in a county funded facility, many of those who are homeless or indigent come to our facility. I sometimes see those with minor mental issues, but most of mine are severe. Suicidal, homicidal, delusional, paranoid, violent, etc. And many have long criminal histories. During my outpatient time, I worked in a community based center, so I dealt with the same population.

I don't get the rich housewife who is bored and needs to complain. I get the woman who is actively psychotic and feels like demons are coming after her. Or the man high on crack who thinks I am trying to steal his brain. Or the overdose who is in for the third time this year for a suicide attempt. Or the man who is on parole for assaulting 3 women, and he is having trouble controlling his anger. We have, at all times, 3-6 police officers sitting in the hallway where my patients are just to keep us safe. It is pretty intense, but it is never boring.

I like this position (for now) because I do my job and move on. I don't take my work home with me. When working with long term patients, I would come home and worry at night about things I needed to set up for them. Here, I get it done and move on to the next. Eventually, I'll go back to the therapy side of things. It is common for us in this field to bounce from in depth care to the less involved assessment end.

And before all of this, I worked as an educator with emotional and behavior disorder adolescents.

Does that cover enough? I hope so, because I am going to bed for tonight.

 

[tomkat]

Hypothetical
The perp buys all the rain ponchos walmart has and a Stanley hacksaw. He watches and waits and when the proper time presents itself he acts.he dresses from head to toe in plastic to ensure none of his Dna. Is left for le to find. He renders LG helpless some how. Very quietly.
Places her body In her bath tub. Then sets up for the dismemberment. Spreading the ponchos and using duct tape to join them until he has a sterile mock room. This would take at the very least an hour to an hour and a half( he couldn't have done it prior. Because. He didn't know when LG would be back. Remember the perplexing is trying hard not to leave a trace of himself so by now he is sweating horribly and more than likely beginning to become dehydrated. And weaker.
Next he would have to bleed the body out, since the body is in the tub its best. To do it there. This will take at least an hour or two without the body being hung by the feet. So four hours in and the perplexing is still wearing his sterile suit and is getting weaker and weaker.
Once bled out its time to move the body into the makeshift sterile room. But rigor has set in so the perplexing starts. Cutting the legs and arms in the tub with the water running. This. Would take several. Hours. One by one he wraps the limp and takes them into the sterile room, then he removes the head and carries it and goes back for the torso.
Once in the room he notices it is almost daylight and he is exhausted. So he cutsvthe limbs smaller and bags them into one construction grade trash bag. The head in a separate bag and then rolls the torso up in plastic and places it in a bag.
Then moves the limbs and head to his car and the torso to the downstairs fridge. He has to make 3 trips. Lastly he must clean the crime scene, armed with bleach, paprrtowels, ammonia and water he starts cleaning the bathroom. Then he must very,very carefully take apart the sterile room. Ensuring no Dna is left. This would require two more larg trash bags.and two more trips down stairs to his car.
It just doesn't add up to me.

This is the only scenio I can imagine if the apartment was the murder scene. It would have to be clean perfectly and planned meticulously.
I for one can not phantom one person doing all this perfectly in 8 hrs, especially in a special suit.
I feel the murder had to happen some where else and the torso was brought back for either some sic pleasure or so local pd would find it and the id would be easy.I feel in the pit of my stomach that LG was murdered some place else and only the torso was recovered.
One other item from my point less ramblings. Has it been said what clothes LG. Had on and where are they?
Imo she was taken to a secluded spot and was dismember there.
Please chime in and help fill in the absurd portion, if not all of the post lol thanks

And slept all day MOnday.

We know now that he missed that day so it does SEEM a LITTLE more realistic that he did it, it doeesn't seem realistic that it was done at BH in one of the three apts, however, there is blood or dna in her drain, I'm guessing the TUB drain?

It just seems way too risky though. Yes people were/had moved out but someone could pop in any time or drive up. PLUS, DID ANYONE MISS HER IN CHURCH on Sunday??

Ponchos no. Hadn't they planned a camping trip for the next weekend? Didnt an article state that camping gear was purchased and was found in his apt unopened and that items purchased at walmart were accounted for???

BUt Too many openings in ponchos, sides open if it's the snap kind and holes for the face to fit into, why not just use trash bags strewn out or rather, roll plastic/plastic drop cloth. Still, like painting, dont' step on the paint on the plastic and step on the carpet or tile...........there would be paint/DNA and footprints to clean up.

How long does it take to clean and drain the blood of a deer? Which occurs in the open with no worries of leaving dna traces.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

:

Let's take it easy here and not blame the victim. We can't judge LG's heart when she tried to be a neighbor to SM.

I understand PlainJaneDoe's feelings of being condescended to when taken on as a "project." However, I'm pretty sure she didn't resent it to the point of offing the person.

No, definitely not. :innocent: It was in high school, and fortunately I had 2x weekly therapy sessions for several years! I didn't mean to blame the victim, though. The person whose project I was probably meant only the best. It's just that the way she went about it compounded all my existing social problems. I kept my anger under control mostly by making "it's only ___ more years/months/days" my mantra. I believed that when I got to college things would be different. High school was just a hoop to jump thru to be able to get where I could really live. I don't know how I'd react if the same situation arose now, when I'm around the people I will spend a good part of my career with.