GA GA - Mary Shotwell Little, 25, Atlanta, 14 Oct 1965

[AMP1979]

I am thrilled to find renewed interested in this case; I was a kid but remember when this happened & never go to Lenox Square without thinking about it. It was a big news story in GA which became sensational due to the hoaxes (lipstick note on gas station bathroom mirror, etc). Too bad much of the investigation's findings have been lost. I'd love to see those who worked the case come together, rehash & record what they remember before it's too late. I have a vague memory of there being a "sit-down" but I could be confusing another old case. Does anyone have knowledge of that?

From what is known, all scenerios have too many holes. Because of the flowers & phonecalls, the ex-lover theory seems most logical. But why would gas have been charged to HER card? Why leave any clues? For the very few dollars for a couple fill-ups, no-one would have known where in Atlanta or in which direction to begin looking..... I think it's more than coincidence the trail led to the area where she grew up & went to school..... Why did her mother want to quash the investigation? Has everyone in her family & circle been considered? Baffling! I have a question one of you might answer... what happened to Roy Little? Is he living? .....Amp, I hope you do choose this for your dissertation... & uncover new information.

Charging the gas to her card and leading the police to North Carolina was a fantastic way to lead the investigators to NC. I don't really see a reason to use her card otherwise. Like you said, it wasn't like they were using her card to fill up (I don't think). I seem to remember it was for small amounts both times.

I believe most of the original investigators assigned to the case are dead now.

 

[noZme]

gaia: thanks, i need to catch up on this. everytime i read "whatever happened to..." in ajc, i think about mary little & wish they would do an update on her case. i bet there's more on the www, just need to make time for research..... kisses to the kitties... extras for biscuit-head!

amp: in '65 gas was somewhere near 30 cents a gallon.... a few years later, a dollar's worth kept my VW bug going all weekend.... oh those were the days... anyway, full service & a full tank was only about 6 bucks.

 

[NSC]

You know, I've always thought that the phone calls Mary received before her disappearance were definitely from someone in NC. But after reading through articles again, and thinking of the Diane Shields case, what if both Mary and Diane were seeing or being pursued by the same guy from the bank? Someone who was very powerful and possibly married. When you think about it, it's kind of odd that Mary married Roy Little. Her friends wouldn't attend the wedding because they didn't like him. Mary's parents reportedly got along with him but maybe they just did so because they felt they had to. He was their son-in-law so even if they didn't like him, maybe for the sake of appearances they got along with him. And it all seemed to happen so quickly. As yosande pointed out, the courtship and marriage all took place in less than a year.

Diane Shields was murdered in May of '67. She was supposed to get married in July of '67.

Maybe this was some rich, well-connected, guy, as ncthom suggested, and he was from the bank. Possibly Mary married Roy Little to escape from the relationship. Then Diane takes Mary's place at the bank and she is murdered 2 months before she is supposed to get married. Maybe this guy refused to allow another woman to escape his clutches and get married so he had her murdered before she had a chance to wed someone else.

The other possibility is, maybe Mary or Diane were NOT actually having a relationship with this individual per se, but were both being pursued fanatically by him and were both refusing to have anything to do with him outside of a few innocent dinner dates. Hence, Mary's quick courtship and marriage to Roy and maybe Diane's engagement too. Maybe they were both afraid of this guy so marriage was, in their mind, a way to get away from him. I don't know the circumstances surrounding Diane's engagement or fiance, if it happened as fast as Mary's or not.

This all just occurred to me when I read one of the articles that yosande posted and I realized that Diane's wedding was just 2 months away from when she was murdered. I had read that before but had completely forgotten about it. I could be wrong, but there are too many coincidences connecting Mary's disappearance and Diane's murder to ignore them completely.

I think you make some good points here. I want to elaborate on what you already wrote here

1) What is Mary and Diane were hired in these postions because the person wanted THEM in particular in these positions. They were choosen, basically. And most likely for looks and their appeal to whatever person wanted them there???

2) Great point about someone pursuing them that they had no interest in. This person COULD have wanted them in this position as I state in 1) above. Some creepy person could have been "that guy" the slimy one always coming onto women and in particular this position the women were holding would have made it hard for them to be mean to him??? What do you think??

 

[ncthom]

What if Mary and Diane were hired in these postions because the person(s) wanted THEM to be in particular in these positions. They were choosen, basically. And most likely for looks and their appeal to whatever person wanted them there???

That's a great point and why I feel C&S executives should have been looked at by law enforcement (none were ever questioned as suspects or ever seriously considered to my knowledge). According to reports I've read, Mary's manager at C&S is the one who phoned the police on Friday morning, called Lenox Security early Friday to ask them to search for her car, and he, then, found Mary's Silver Comet in the Lenox parking lot at lunch time. Those three facts alone, I think should make him a "person of interest".

I'm not suggesting, her manager, a man named Eugene Rackley, as I recall, is the perpetrator. I'm simply saying that he should have been questioned very closely. And I wonder if he, as an HR Manager at C&S, (or Mary's other close co-workers) could have given police more information about Mary's stalker in the weeks before she disappeared. They surely had to see and hear things as Mary's behavior changed so drastically and she talked openly about being afraid.

The phone call in which Mary told the caller she couldn't visit him anymore because she was a "married woman" was reported by a C&S outsider, a job applicant, who overheard Mary's conversation. Where were the co-workers? Why didn't they have any similar information to offer law enforcement?

How can these people live with themselves if they have information and don't come forward? This is no less important a crime because years have passed.

I recently walked around the campus of UNCG where Mary went to college and thought of her there as a young girl, with her whole life ahead of her - what an optimistic time that must've been for her. Mary deserves better than to be forgotten or to have the remnants of her life packed away in a dusty evidence box that the Atlanta PD now says has been "lost".

 

[ncthom]

I recently came across this posting on another website about Mary Shotwell Little. The poster identifies herself as a "psychic intutiative". I believe her observations are remarkable in that they confirm Mary's abduction was not random (she was targeted). Also the psychic's impressions confirm the theory (held by many, including some in the Atlanta PD) that Mary's abductor went to great lengths to lead investigators away from Georgia or to cast suspicion on someone from Mary's North Carolina past. Here are the comments from the poster who identifies herself only as Nikki_GA:

I wanted to chime in about the Mary Shotwell case. (I have done my own investigating books,articles and such for years over The Black Dahlia (Elizabeth Short) Not so much about Mary Shotwell.
However,looking through old articles , pictures of her,her car after being found and the life she lived has recently grasped my attention again. I am a psychic intuitive.
I began to see small "flashes" of this young lady's murder.
Pictures of the car gave me most of what I could feel.
The news about her car was that it had been missing for a number of days from the Lenox mall parking lot where she had been shopping before her disappearance. I believe the man who took Mrs Shotwell and brutally assulted her and eventually killed her was someone she knew in passing.
This man,I believe was someone that she knew from the bank she worked. He had made slight advances toward her,only to be let down.
He eventually came to have a very intense crush on Mrs Shotwell,to the point of following her occaionally in his car.Watching where she was going,just wanting to be close to her.This became an obsession of his.
I feel he,in his own mind began to purchase or collect items he used to take "control" of her.He approached her in the Lenox Mall parking lot as she was getting into her car.
She saw him and felt no fear,she knew his face and he'd always seemed polite in the bank.
She stopped to say Hello to him as he approached her.Then before she knew it,he'd gotton her into the passenger seat of her car and drove away, memorizing, possible where she had been parked.
The images are weak,at this time for me as to what she did endure. But I do know,as we all did,she was brutally abused and killed. God Rest Her Soul.
Thank You for listening.

I'm quite simply blown away by this person's insights into the case - she has a much better understanding and theory of the crime than many members of law enforcement who worked on the case (and who ultimately lost all the evidence, including a bloody finger print from Mary's car.) I would be so pleased to get in touch with Nikki_GA directly.

 

[gaia227]

If it was a co-worker who became obsessed with Mary and murdered her I think there is a chance the same co-worker murdered Diane Shields.

Do you have a link for what you posted ncthom?

 

[MaryLiz]

Yes, I was wondering if there was a link for that too, ncthom. Very interesting. For years I felt sure that there really was a NC connection to Mary's disappearance. But several months ago, after reading about it again, I changed my mind and also came to the conclusion it probably had something to do with the bank where Mary and Diane worked. Diane Shields' murder is just too big of a coincidence to ignore.

 

[Balthazar]

Hi, just wanted to chime in with my thoughts:

The 5 roses were purchased from a florist shop that was described as being NEAR Mary's apartment. To me, this indicates that either Mary sent the roses to herself, or someone who knew where she lived and/or lived nearby sent the roses.

5 roses is NOT the kind of gift a wealthy suitor or someone who was trying to impress a girl would give - they would give at least a dozen, maybe more - a lot more.

The overheard phone conversation: She told the person she couldn't come to them but they could visit her. Could this have been a customer at the bank who had followed her home? Could it be he was asking her to come to his house? Was she telling him that she couldn't come to his house, but of course, he could come to the bank? Afterall, she couldn't reject a customer easily. Back then, before sexual harassment laws, women would be blamed for being sexually harrassed by a customer. If she rejected him completely or told her boss, she would likely have been fired. Had he left stuff in her car and stalked her? Had he left stuff on her doorstep? (gifts, letters?) Perhaps the situation was that this customer was pestering her, but was nice to her, so she didn't understand she was in danger, yet, she was uncomfortable with the attention. Was that why she was worried about being in her car or house alone? Could it be that Diane came in contact with this same customer and that led to her murder?

 

[gaia227]

Princess you got me thinking about if there was a meaning behind sending 5 roses. I had never really thought about the odd number of roses sent.

I looked in several places interestingly enough in the list of what the number of roses sent means often 4 and 5 are not listed but all other numbers are. These websites do have what the significance of 5 roses means and according to them sending someone 5 roses means "I love you very much.' 7 means I am infatuated with you, 9 means 10 means 'you are pretty' and etc.

http://www.roseforlove.com/rose-number-meanings-ezp-46

http://www.111flowers.com/shop/index.php?action=rose_meaning

 

[Balthazar]

Do most men know the meaning of the number of roses? I asked my husband and he had no idea there was any meaning. But 5 is a strange number to send - why not at least 6? 5 is very awkward to arrange unless you do 3 short in front and two tall behind in a one sided arangement with some foilage.

I'm also intrigued that they were sent from a florist near Mary's home - rather than near her place of work, yet were sent to her work - either to hide the delivery from her spouse or because the person knew she wouldn't be home. Apparently the person paid cash as the florist couldn't identify the purchase or purchaser. Not so uncommon back then when credit cards were still fairly new to most people. Could it be the amount of cash on hand determined the number of roses purchased? Or was there a meaning to the number?

 

[txsvicki]

I've been reading this case again and agree that the person who sent flowers might have been a customer. People used to actually go into banks to do their business and many elderly people who went through the depression era still do. My daughter worked in a bank and there were several nice people who would bring treats and donuts to the girls and some men flirted. Some came in every day and had coffee and talked to everyone. What Mary was heard saying on the phone sounds exactly like a bank employee back then might say to a customer who is calling with questions about the account and flirting at the same time. Since the next girl hired was also murdered I'd say they should have looked at all the old geezers and even younger bank customers back then. Older men also were known to eat the cafeteria type restaurants very often, such as The Picadilly. Then again, her husband might have been a jerk since her friends wouldn't attend the wedding. That is not good at all, but probably fairly common. Since the detective thought the disappearance might have been staged, I wonder if any newer cold case detectives may have gone back and tried to discover anything new that could be dna tested.

 

[ncthom]

If it was a co-worker who became obsessed with Mary and murdered her I think there is a chance the same co-worker murdered Diane Shields.

Do you have a link for what you posted ncthom?

Here's the link to the forum where intuitive Nikki_GA has posted her remarkable insights about Mary Shotwell Little:

http://www.topix.com/forum/atlanta/T62JHDMPLNUENA4DI

It's about half way down the page of comments. And for me, this theory certainly answers a lot of questions as to how Mary's abduction may have happened. Most importantly, it's consistent with all the other evidence that Mary was specifically stalked and targeted - this was not a random crime.

 

[ncthom]

In doing some research on Mary, I talked with a friend of Mary's who said that he thought she had gotten the job at C&S through her close friend from high school, Janet Hawkins, who was also at employee of C&S at the Mitchell Street Operations Center.

Unfortunately, Janet died several years ago and I've been unable to locate any of her family members who might have more information about that. I have become convinced, however, that Mary's disappearance and Diane Shield's murder are linked and their jobs at C&S are the common thread.

 

[MaryLiz]

Hi, just wanted to chime in with my thoughts:

The 5 roses were purchased from a florist shop that was described as being NEAR Mary's apartment. To me, this indicates that either Mary sent the roses to herself, or someone who knew where she lived and/or lived nearby sent the roses.

5 roses is NOT the kind of gift a wealthy suitor or someone who was trying to impress a girl would give - they would give at least a dozen, maybe more - a lot more.

The overheard phone conversation: She told the person she couldn't come to them but they could visit her. Could this have been a customer at the bank who had followed her home? Could it be he was asking her to come to his house? Was she telling him that she couldn't come to his house, but of course, he could come to the bank? Afterall, she couldn't reject a customer easily. Back then, before sexual harassment laws, women would be blamed for being sexually harrassed by a customer. If she rejected him completely or told her boss, she would likely have been fired. Had he left stuff in her car and stalked her? Had he left stuff on her doorstep? (gifts, letters?) Perhaps the situation was that this customer was pestering her, but was nice to her, so she didn't understand she was in danger, yet, she was uncomfortable with the attention. Was that why she was worried about being in her car or house alone? Could it be that Diane came in contact with this same customer and that led to her murder?

Excellent points about the number of roses and the fact that it could have been a customer harassing her. I was thinking along the lines that it was a fellow employee or someone higher up in the bank. Like I said, the coincidence of Diane being murdered and working for the same bank is too big to ignore. It could have been a customer infatuated with both of them. Someone very unassuming who didn't really "openly" stalk them so as to draw significant attention to himself. He could have gone about this very quietly. If only Mary had shared with fellow co-workers who was making those phone calls. He at least could have been questioned. And regarding the roses, five is a very odd number and it never even registered with me before.

 

[gaia227]

Do most men know the meaning of the number of roses? I asked my husband and he had no idea there was any meaning. But 5 is a strange number to send - why not at least 6? 5 is very awkward to arrange unless you do 3 short in front and two tall behind in a one sided arangement with some foilage.

I'm also intrigued that they were sent from a florist near Mary's home - rather than near her place of work, yet were sent to her work - either to hide the delivery from her spouse or because the person knew she wouldn't be home. Apparently the person paid cash as the florist couldn't identify the purchase or purchaser. Not so uncommon back then when credit cards were still fairly new to most people. Could it be the amount of cash on hand determined the number of roses purchased? Or was there a meaning to the number?

i agree most men would not know the significance to the number of roses sent but you never know and it was in the 60's so maybe that was more common knowledge than it is today. Then again, there may be no significance to the number at all.

It is also compelling as to where they were purchased. Why near her home and not her work? Did she have a stalker? Friends did report Mary had seemed afraid in the days leading up to her disappearence.

 

[gaia227]

In most of the reports it just says that Mary received the flowers a few days prior to her disappearence. How many days prior? Five days, perhaps?

 

[Balthazar]

I've also been thinking about her underwear, girdle and slip rolled up neatly. Who did the rolling? Mary or her abductor? If the abductor did it, it indicates to me that he had feelings for her and was treating these items with care. If she did it, perhaps it was to try to slow down what was happening and try to delay and think of some way to escape. The fact it was down between the seats indicates to me that the abductor did this. It is interesting that the bra was on the floorboard - not folded like her other items along with cut piece of stalking that were probably used to bind her. I am also curious about the bra being black. This was the era when Sandra Dee was a huge star - A Summer Place, Tammy and the Doctor, I'd Rather be Rich, Take Her She's Mine, That Funny Feeling ...and here it was 1965 in Atlanta - a conservative city. I wondered if the rest of the underwear were black or only the bra. I recall my mother who was in her 30's back in the 1960's only wore white underwear - and still only wears white and I remember her best friend saying that her husband would only let her wear white underwear back in the 1970's - I was 12 and thought it very weird at the time - I wondered why he would care - but that was part of the culture of the 1960's. I wonder if the bra was actually Mary's or not? Why would she choose a black bra to wear under an olive colored dress?

 

[MaryLiz]

I've also been thinking about her underwear, girdle and slip rolled up neatly. Who did the rolling? Mary or her abductor? If the abductor did it, it indicates to me that he had feelings for her and was treating these items with care. If she did it, perhaps it was to try to slow down what was happening and try to delay and think of some way to escape. The fact it was down between the seats indicates to me that the abductor did this. It is interesting that the bra was on the floorboard - not folded like her other items along with cut piece of stalking that were probably used to bind her. I am also curious about the bra being black. This was the era when Sandra Dee was a huge star - A Summer Place, Tammy and the Doctor, I'd Rather be Rich, Take Her She's Mine, That Funny Feeling ...and here it was 1965 in Atlanta - a conservative city. I wondered if the rest of the underwear were black or only the bra. I recall my mother who was in her 30's back in the 1960's only wore white underwear - and still only wears white and I remember her best friend saying that her husband would only let her wear white underwear back in the 1970's - I was 12 and thought it very weird at the time - I wondered why he would care - but that was part of the culture of the 1960's. I wonder if the bra was actually Mary's or not? Why would she choose a black bra to wear under an olive colored dress?

My mother always wore a white bra and underwear back then, too. Although it was a pretty conservative time fashion-wise, it was starting to change with the swinging London scene - all the colorful fashions and mod stuff like Twiggy, Mary Quant and Carnaby Street. It happened across the pond around 1964, I think, but didn't really catch on over here until about '66 or '67. So you're right, it was really a more conservative time in fashion until the British invasion hit full steam over here, and then I remember clothes being all kinds of wild colors and designs! But that definitely wasn't until AFTER 1965, if I remember correctly. And as far as underclothes, I do remember everything being mostly white back then.

As far as who folded the clothes, I suspect the perp of doing that. I just always thought Mary was incapacitated pretty quickly, like hit over the head or knocked out because of the blood they found in the car, and also there was the gas station attendant who said they saw a woman in the car who appeared to be injured. Whether it was even Mary or not, I don't know, but I just have always believed she was subdued almost right away.

 

[txsvicki]

My mother also wore white bras and underwear back then and even I had trouble finding a black bra back in the 70's. Mary may have had more money and access to shopping. White got dingy very fast and black would have been a nice color of bra to have. Girdles were still used in the 60's to hold up the stockings. Whoever rolled up the underwear could have done it so that the things wouldn't be visible and seen while driving Mary's car. Cutting a piece of hose could have been done to cut it off from the girdle hosiery hook up thing. Police thought it was staged by Mary but not necessarily.

 

[ncthom]

My mother also wore white bras and underwear back then and even I had trouble finding a black bra back in the 70's. Mary may have had more money and access to shopping. White got dingy very fast and black would have been a nice color of bra to have. Girdles were still used in the 60's to hold up the stockings. Whoever rolled up the underwear could have done it so that the things wouldn't be visible and seen while driving Mary's car. Cutting a piece of hose could have been done to cut it off from the girdle hosiery hook up thing. Police thought it was staged by Mary but not necessarily.

Props to you all, Princess Rose, Cambria, and tsvicki - the number of roses, the black bra, and the positioning of the undergarments found in the car are all elements of the crime I had never considered seriously. This is the kind of fresh, original thinking that may move this case forward - and as to the undergarments, that's the type of clue that was likely ignored by the all male Atlanta PD detectives who originally worked this case.

IMO, I can't find any particular meaning in the roses beyond the explanations you all have offered. I suppose, I see the roses as a further attempt by Mary's stalker to intimidate and frighten her, to somehow stake his "claim" to her. So far as I know, the roses didn't even contain a card identifying the sender. If it did, Mary didn't share it with anyone at her work place. She also talked regularly to her mother and her sister on the phone and didn't reveal the identity of the sender to them so far as I know - I suspect Mary didn't know who sent them. But the roses, the phone calls, the feeling of being followed and being anxious, were all part of the escalation of the obsession and stalking that culminated in Mary's kidnapping.

I find the discussion of the undergarments far more telling. Mary had been married six weeks earlier - if the perpetrator was an obsessed co-worker as the psychic suggested - the color of the bra may have no meaning other than Mary got lots of new lingerie leading up to her marriage.

The positioning of the undergarments, I also see as significant. The cut in the hosiery, the careful folding of some of Mary's undergarments, I see those things as consistent with the abductor acting out his sick fantasy of taking control of this woman he had become obsessed with - acts of domination and humiliation.

I can't help but think of the advice Oprah has given repeatedly on her show - if you find yourself in a situation where an attacker is trying to force you into a car - take a stand and say, "No! Kill me here if you have to but I will not go with you to some deserted spot where I'll be even more vulnerable." If only Mary could've heard that advice - she'd have been more prepared to defend herself and the outcome might have been very different.