General Discussion Thread #2

[liverpoollou]

My thoughts right now: Reeva made a really romantic Valentine's Day gift for OP, framed photos of them having fun, very personal and heartfelt. I believe they opened it together, and OP was really moved. That spurred him and he wanted Reeva to take Samantha's place in his life and he tried to move the relationship further along than Reeva was willing to accept. Then the rage came early in the morning.We will see.

You're dead romantic you are.... except for the bold bit.

 

[Estelle]

Lol, looks like they were both cheating maybe.

http://fabwags.com/samantha-taylor-oscar-pistorius-ex-girlfriend-photos/

Carol, Thank you for that link. I have decided that we need a copy of that on here. I am especially interested in relationships and past history of them to see the patterns. So I have copied and pasted the text so we can discuss this.

Samantha Taylor- Oscar Pistorius’ Ex-Girlfriend!! (PHOTOS) February 15, 2013

According to Oscar Pistorius’ ex girlfriend Samantha Taylor, her ex-boyfriend was a ladies man, she spoke about it when she found out he was dating Reeva Steenkamp.

“Oscar has such a way with women. She’s probably not the only one he’s got. We dated for a year and a half. Oscar is certainly not what people think he is.” He certainly is not, after all he had been charged with the murder of his girlfriend Reeva who was shot four times in his home during the early hours of February 14.

Samantha Taylor a marketing student from Cape Town had an ugly spat with Oscar on Twitter after she said Reeva stalked her for months on Instagram “She has been following me for a long time on Instagram (a photo-sharing system on Twitter) and knows exactly where I am and everything going on in my relationship with Oscar,”

Taylor also said Reeva was the cause for their breakup after 18 months dating, but then Oscar fired out telling that it was Samantha who cheated on him with Quinton van der Burgh the Clifton Shores producer, the same man Oscar whom he got into a fight with, at that time it was reported he had threatened to break the legs of a guy who was friends with Quinton.

Samantha Taylor might have interesting things to tell about how Oscar was with her while they were together, she tried to spill the beans but she retracted her accusations in a letter presented by her attorney. At that time Samantha Taylor said..

“I am prepared to reveal what (Pistorius) made me go through”

She also tweeted this..

But it was Samantha’s mom Trish Taylor who had a few things to say on Facebook when she heard Oscar had been arrested and charged with murder.

“I am so glad that Sammy is safe and sound and out of the clutches of that man – there were a few occasions where things could have gone wrong with her and his gun during the time they dated,”

Pretty Sammy Taylor born Samantha Ray Taylor graduated in 2005 with a diploma from St. Mary’s D.S.G, Kloof, KZN, received her bachelor of business science and finance from the University of Cape Town in 2009 and her diploma from Design Time: School of Interior Design in 2010.

In 2008 she was an admin assistant at Stoneage Home Centre, the following year a bookkeeper at L.G Green CC, and a tutor at Teach Me 2.

At the end of 2010 and until March, 2011 Samantha Taylor was a financial consultant at SureSlim, after that she became a fund accountant at State Street and last year she worked for MIP Holdings as a Junior Programmer.

Sam the daughter of Patricia and Henry Taylor from Cape Town has three siblings sister Kerri and brothers Tyrone and Greg.

You can find Oscar Pistorius’ ex lady Samantha Taylor on Twitter here and on Facebook here

Oscar Pistarius’ previous girlfriends besides Taylor and Reeva are Melissa Rom bygewoon, Jenna Edkins, Chanelle du Plessis , and Vicky Miles

So have I understood this correctly? Reeva stalked Samantha on Instagram for a long time while Samantha was going out with Oscar! I could not imagine Reeva doing that! So did Reeva find out that Oscar was dating other women when she was dating him and that caused the argument?

 

[NocturnalLady]

Something set him off into a narcissistic rage IMO. We can only guess what it was now.

Totally agree. And I think that rage had been brewing for awhile and was just under the surface waiting for an excuse to explode.

 

[DriveBy]

Here is a video demonstration of what OP now wants you to believe, the manner he says that he fired his pistol, accurately with three bullets in to Reeva:


How NOT to shoot a gun - YouTube



It would be insane to believe that story! Just saying...

 

[liverpoollou]

Estelle, I would imagine that if she was shot in the bedroom there would be evidence to back up that theory..blood splatter etc. and Botha sat and swore under oath that there was no evidence to contradict OP statement. If there was an indication she was shot in the bedroom, it would have been mentioned at bail and OP's statement refuted.

Not sure about that Carol.....The only way Botha could say for sure that there was evidence...blood splatter etc. ...would be if the forensics were back......I have alread posted this a few times but in case you haven't picked it up: By the way did anyone take the Oath.....I mean I thought the only sworn statements were the affidavits

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...r-Pistorius-Hilton-Botha-defends-himself.html

 

[liverpoollou]

And amazingly, Reevas best friend stated that Reeva told her that if OP asked for her hand in marriage, she would say yes.

She would "probably" say yes. There again she could "probably" say no. Anyway it's is hearsay.........The only person who could answer that is unfortuntely not here.

 

[Estelle]

OP & JA make the perfect couple!!
OP should have that enter at your own risk on his front door!
JA should have a tat on her forehead-sleep with me at your own risk!This girl is insane!!

I don't live in SA,so I don't know the answer to your other question

IMO there are many similarities between JA and OP.

They are both narcissitic sociopaths.

They are both compulsive liars, controllers and abusers who when they do not get their own way their revenge is death to the so-called loved one.

They have no remorse, guilt or conscience.

They use religion in vain. OP's brother is supposedly religious and OP uses the word, God.

They think that they can get away with premediated murder as we are all fools and cannot see through them.

I could go on and on....

 

[Estelle]

My thoughts right now: Reeva made a really romantic Valentine's Day gift for OP, framed photos of them having fun, very personal and heartfelt. I believe they opened it together, and OP was really moved. That spurred him and he wanted Reeva to take Samantha's place in his life and he tried to move the relationship further along than Reeva was willing to accept. Then the rage came early in the morning.

We will see.

I don't think the gift was opened at all. Was it smashed? I have a vague recollection of this.

 

[Zinn]

Well he was obsessed with her, Mr. Myers and others had to tell him to back off, turn it down a notch.

And he had been dating Samantha Taylor for a long time. Here is a video of the them together, highly choreographed and scripted for a television program:

Oscar Pistorius and girlfriend in Seychelles (FULL INSERT) - YouTube

Ms. Taylor is very petite, sweet, and very adoring of OP. I believe that he really dominated that relationship. And perhaps he wanted the same accommodations from Reeva; but she was "just not that in to him" this soon, she was the single, "independent," blooming professionally Reeva, not the submissive Ms. Taylor. Just my thoughts...

From what I have read, it doesn't sound like a case of one person being infatuated and the other just not being into it. Everything I've read indicates they were both very engaged in the relationship. However, a couple people close to Reeva have stated she mentioned things were moving very fast, and it sounds like that was stated as a concern. For instance, Reeva's friend S.G. (girlfriend of Oscar's friend J.D.) stated that Reeva said things were moving very fast "but nonetheless she loved him." However, this same friend also stated that Reeva told her she would "probably say yes" if OP proposed to her. So I don't think this was a one-sided relationship.

Given that Reeva had been in an abusive relationship and was involved in the cause of preventing abuse and raising awareness, it's possible she was very interested in OP but also considered this "moving very fast" behavior a red flag as it is typical behavior of an abusive person. That alone may not have been enough to cause her to reevaluate the relationship, particularly during the infatuation stage of a new relationship, but perhaps warning signs were mounting. Maybe it became necessary for her to assert boundaries at some point that evening (purely speculating on that).

Reeva's "joberg dad" mentioned OP was calling Reeva incessantly to the point where he felt it necessary to have a talk with him. This would be another warning sign. This does not indicate someone is more "into it" than the other person, it's a warning sign of an abuser.

All of the above is just my opinion.

 

[Estelle]

Estelle, I would imagine that if she was shot in the bedroom there would be evidence to back up that theory..blood splatter etc. and Botha sat and swore under oath that there was no evidence to contradict OP statement. If there was an indication she was shot in the bedroom, it would have been mentioned at bail and OP's statement refuted.

Sorry, Carol, I do not agree with that. They did not want to mention any forensics at the bail hearing at all as it had not been finished. Even though Botha said that it is not true and he has been taken off the case since. He said he thought the bail hearing would take a short time but then OP produced his affidavit and Botha was not prepared. Usually the Defendant just pleads guilty or not guilty but OP wanted to get out on bail so suddenly Botha had to present as little information as possible to the defence. He said it is like playing a poker game and he felt like a scapegoat. You cannot beleive anything Botha said that day.

 

[DriveBy]

Since we are talking about it:

Quote:
Rage (often called fury or frenzy) is a feeling of intense or growing anger. It is associated with the Fight-or-flight response and oftentimes activated in response to an external cue, such as the murder of a loved one or some other kind of serious offense. The phrase, 'thrown into a fit of rage,' expresses the immediate nature of rage that occurs before deliberation. If left unchecked rage may lead to violence. Depression and anxiety lead to an increased susceptibility to rage and there are modern treatments for this emotional pattern.

Quote:
A person in a state of rage may also lose much of his or her capacity for rational thought and reasoning, and may act, usually violently, on his or her impulses to the point that they may attack until they themselves have been incapacitated or the source of their rage has been destroyed.

Quote:
Rage tends to be expressed when a person faces a threat to their pride, position, status or dignity.
Expression of rage can be very intense, often distinguished by distorted facial expressions and by threat (or execution) of physical attack. Rage is associated with individuals who experience psycho-pathological issues. This can lead to physical violence resulting in serious injury or death No kidding! My words.

Quote:
They also believe this 'self-inflicted' rage is a narcissistic response to one’s past injuries. Rage, under this set of theories, is caused from built up anger from past traumas. These accumulated dispositions are stored in our mind.

Quote:
a person would not first become enraged and then act, but do both simultaneously.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rage_(emotion)

 

[Estelle]

And amazingly, Reevas best friend stated that Reeva told her that if OP asked for her hand in marriage, she would say yes.

That supposed best friend of Reeva was the partner of OP's best friend whom OP phoned first and she gave a statement on behalf of OP to say that to the court. She has obviously taken OP's side to put him in a good light to get bail.

Yet a female relation of Reeva's has been on TV saying that she knows that Reeva was NOT in love with OP.

 

[liverpoollou]

Lol, looks like they were both cheating maybe.


http://fabwags.com/samantha-taylor-oscar-pistorius-ex-girlfriend-photos/

ALL his girlfriends look like clones of each other....do you think he thought their brains/personality would be likewise, ie clones. Weird.

 

[natsound]

Two attorneys took opposite views on the ABC 20/20 special. The one playing the Defense drops to his knees and demonstrates that he can put his hand above his head to fire downward at the door. OP supporters love that and use it to defend his lie about being on his stumps when he fired at Reeva.

The thing for me about "the representation that OP "could" have raised his hand above his head and fired downwards" is just pushing it too far to give an explanation for the facts, torturing the facts trying to squeeze out a plausible explanation.

1. OP had to have training to get his gun permit.
2. He bragged on Twitter about his accuracy / marksmanship.
3. So he knows how to properly handle a pistol, how to hold it, how to point it, how to sight his target, and how to fire it.
4. He loves to shoot, and he frequently went to the firing range to relax when he could not sleep.
5. Accuracy is the goal of target practice shooting. There is no "hand over head" shooting allowed. If someone did that they would be banned for life. So OP never did that before he killed Reeva.
6. He was building an arsenal of fantastic weapons, it was an obsession to his young mind.

To believe that the Marksman /Gun Enthusiast that I described above, when he was under threat to his life, would throw out everything that he had learned and practiced and fire a weapon over his head, without seeing or knowing where his target was behind that door, and not sighting / aiming at what he wants to shoot, is just too far a stretch for me.

Also, physics will surely come into play if this defense theory is presented during trial. Does the trajetory in the door match where the bullets would have traveled if OP had raised his hand and fired?

 

[Carol70]

Sorry, Carol, I do not agree with that. They did not want to mention any forensics at the bail hearing at all as it had not been finished. Even though Botha said that it is not true and he has been taken off the case since. He said he thought the bail hearing would take a short time but then OP produced his affidavit and Botha was not prepared. Usually the Defendant just pleads guilty or not guilty but OP wanted to get out on bail so suddenly Botha had to present as little information as possible to the defence. He said it is like playing a poker game and he felt like a scapegoat. You cannot beleive anything Botha said that day.

You are forgetting that if he misrepresented anything or lied, it is perjury. It's a criminal offence and he will be in a ton of trouble.

 

[liverpoollou]

I don't think the gift was opened at all. Was it smashed? I have a vague recollection of this.

Yes, I read somewhere that it was found by her body smashed.....But what do you believe????? I don't know what to..

 

[Zinn]

That supposed best friend of Reeva was the partner of OP's best friend whom OP poned first and she gave a statement on behalf of OP to say that to the court. She has obviously taken OP's side.

Yet a female relation of Reeva's has been on TV saying that she knows that Reeva was not in love with OP.

For what it's worth, I read S.G.'s witness statement and I did not consider it a defense of O.P.

As one of the last people to communicate with the couple, and given her close friendship with Reeva, I considered her witness statement relevant. And I appreciate that she and her boyfriend (O.P.'s best friend) specifically mentioned Reeva's concern about things moving too fast.

Just my opinion.

 

[Feynman]

Botha sat and swore under oath that there was no evidence to contradict OP statement. If there was an indication she was shot in the bedroom, it would have been mentioned at bail and OP's statement refuted.

Botha also later said he had not been prepared to discuss much of the forensics at the bail hearing, that the level of questioning on such matters was unexpected. And he said there that the bullets were fired in a downward trajectory, contradicting's OP story, thereby contradicting his own statement that there was no evidence presented that contradicted OP's statement! I don't think we can make too much of what Botha said at the hearing.

 

[Carol70]

That supposed best friend of Reeva was the partner of OP's best friend whom OP poned first and she gave a statement on behalf of OP to say that to the court. She has obviously taken OP's side.

Yet a female relation of Reeva's has been on TV saying that she knows that Reeva was not in love with OP.

Well, we have discussed this a few times and all were in agreement that it wasn't actually true love. The relationship was only a few weeks old.

 

[liverpoollou]

You are forgetting that if he misrepresented anything or lied, it is perjury. It's a criminal offence and he will be in a ton of trouble.

I don't know if they took the Oath or not, I don't remember hearing anyone take an Oath. But how could Botha swear to anything without forensics to back him up. Forensics were not ready....and all he could do was say "no".