General theory thread and motives rehashed #2

[debs]

You know, even if I feel Ronald had something to do with his child's disappearance, and that what he was saying during the fall-down-bawling episode was a bunch of BS, I DO believe his grief was very real. I do believe he was overcome with raw emotion and it hit him like a ton of bricks.

But what he was saying was incongruent to the emotions he was feeling.

 

[azwriter]

I was born in Louisiana and lived there until I was transplanted to Tennessee and have never seen any man anywhere make a spectacle of himself like that...And I just had my 66th birthday a little over a week ago..

However IMHO... Ron C falling to the ground was his moment of truth.. Perhaps the ONLY one he has ever experienced .. It came right after he stated.. He would give his life to have his child's life back..He fully realized she was gone and he was the one responsible...IIRC.. It didn't last too long.. He immediately went into defense and CYA mode for the rest of the interview...And topped it off at the end with.. .. "I'm done" and walked away.. JMO

These posts concerning Ron's behavior in one of his first media exposure after his daughter was reported missing, has me thinking about my own life experiences.
I don't live in the south but after years of being a newspaper reporter, I've been present at many, many situations where accidents and deaths have allowed me to view grieving parents and family members.
Only once in over 20 years have I witnessed the type of grief Ron showed. It was a mother whose daughter was run over and killed in the family drive way by a family member. This mother was so overcome that she could not stand or speak. It was heartbreaking to see her reaction.
However, when we see Ron's reaction on that falling down video we should remember that just hours before, this father cussed out a 911 operator, refused to provide information that would aid in finding his daughter and hung up not once but twice on the official life line that was trained to find his missing little girl.
I for one find that difficult to explain.
jmo

 

[dodie20]

I've also lived in the South & around Southern men of all ages, & I've never seen one act like this. I've seen a few shed tears, but they were private tears & there was no drama involved. They leave the dramatics & histrionics to the women. I have seen young boys throw fits, but I'Ve never known one, who didn't outgrow them.

I've only seen my husband cry twice-once when he buried our adored dog, & once when his beloved grandmother died. I saw a few boys cry, when they lost the Texas state football championship, but it was nothing compared to when my daughter's softball team lost. They were flat out bawling, hugging, & my daughter grabbed a hold of thier years-long bus driver, & sobbed like a baby, on her shoulder. Women & men are just emotionally different, & to tell you the truth, I don't know how I would've reacted to a boy acting like my daughter.

 

[faefrost]

Well I was born, raised and have lived in the south all of my life and I have to say I have seen many southern men become very emotional and drop to the ground in grief. So when Ron dropped on the ground it wasnt new for me to see that happen.

All men are not alike.......even in the South. Some can be very strong but some simply aren't and can show much more emotional outbursts.

And younger men of today aren't taught to hold everything inside anymore. For so long it seemed the men were taught to hold everything inside and never show emotions. I am glad that is changing.

IMO

The one thing that always strikes me is to compare those early images and interviews of RC with those of Mark Lundsford, Jessica Lundsfords father. Here is a man in many respects very similar to Ron. Similar circumstances, similar life. Similar daughter missing in the middle of the night. Yet when you watch them, Marks grief concern and despair is palpable. You can see and sense his panic, his fear, and his confusion. His deep concern for his daughter. You don't see that with Ron. You see alot of what can be best described as faking it, mixed with a boiling over rage and traces of violence. There is NO fear there. It just made it readily apparent that something in the story being told was not ringing true. and in hindsight, everyone involved, (particularly Ron) knew that the little girl was not "missing". About the only player that you did get that same feeling of panic despair and fear from, similar to Mark, was TN. Who I do believe had (and probably doesn't have to this day) any real idea of what happened to that poor little girl.

 

[nomoresorrow]

I've seen plenty of northern AND southern grown men cry in my lifetime BUT when I saw Ronald Cummings cry, I saw Susan Smith...

MO ~

 

[Emeralgem]

The one thing that always strikes me is to compare those early images and interviews of RC with those of Mark Lundsford, Jessica Lundsfords father. Here is a man in many respects very similar to Ron. Similar circumstances, similar life. Similar daughter missing in the middle of the night. Yet when you watch them, Marks grief concern and despair is palpable. You can see and sense his panic, his fear, and his confusion. His deep concern for his daughter. You don't see that with Ron. You see alot of what can be best described as faking it, mixed with a boiling over rage and traces of violence. There is NO fear there. It just made it readily apparent that something in the story being told was not ringing true. and in hindsight, everyone involved, (particularly Ron) knew that the little girl was not "missing". About the only player that you did get that same feeling of panic despair and fear from, similar to Mark, was TN. Who I do believe had (and probably doesn't have to this day) any real idea of what happened to that poor little girl.

I respectfully but wholeheartedly disagree... When she appeared with her son in that first plea video I did not detect any fear other than fear her son was not coming across as being believable...

Also, I detect no fear, none whatsoever... here in this interview with AH...JMO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca251Iv_sFk

 

[TobyWong*]

The one thing that always strikes me is to compare those early images and interviews of RC with those of Mark Lundsford, Jessica Lundsfords father. Here is a man in many respects very similar to Ron. Similar circumstances, similar life. Similar daughter missing in the middle of the night. Yet when you watch them, Marks grief concern and despair is palpable. You can see and sense his panic, his fear, and his confusion. His deep concern for his daughter. You don't see that with Ron. You see alot of what can be best described as faking it, mixed with a boiling over rage and traces of violence. There is NO fear there. It just made it readily apparent that something in the story being told was not ringing true. and in hindsight, everyone involved, (particularly Ron) knew that the little girl was not "missing". About the only player that you did get that same feeling of panic despair and fear from, similar to Mark, was TN. Who I do believe had (and probably doesn't have to this day) any real idea of what happened to that poor little girl.

Thanks was not enough! This is so true and why I believe there are so many people that don't know what happened to this beautiful little girl, but know without a doubt that something wrong or bad, not right, not true happened that night. It has'nt mattered what the story line is/was or will be, we know it won't be what really happened to her. The angst that I feel is for a father that has'nt done/said a positive or true thing since she disappeared.
The silence since ron being in jail (from the cummings side)speaks volumes. They are waiting to see who takes the next step toward justice for Haleigh, then we'll hear some sound bits, for sure. One of these people have to break.Have to!

In the fall down video all I see is a man who uttered the wrong words, caught himself, hopefully felt and saw what happened to his daughter replay in his head, feel down cause he felt horrible for a second it prolly took his breath away to remember the real crime, thats the pain I see in him. Pain but only cause he knew she would'nt be coming back.
And I do not agree about tn. To me she looks like a grieving grandma, trying to guide her mis-guided son for whom she flat out lied for/about.imo

 

[21merc7]

I'll say it again. What I see when Ron did the fall to the knees was very poor acting. Maybe he thought he would get a tv role someday, idk.

He never said anything to Haleigh. That is the first reaction, usually even an instruction from LE, but we are so used to these kidnappings in the news all parents know to speak directly to the child. Haleigh even needs medicine, did you hear him mention anything about please get her medicine?! Notta'. Nuttin'.

He knew she was dead and he knew when, where, how and why.

 

[TobyWong*]

I respectfully but wholeheartedly disagree... When she appeared with her son in that first plea video I did not detect any fear other than fear her son was not coming across as being believable...

Also, I detect no fear, none whatsoever... here in this interview with AH...JMO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca251Iv_sFk

How long after feb.9th/10th was this. Right around the wedding? At the 50sec. mark I am again astounded at how emphatically tn is talking up what a great relationship this was. All family and love and the kids LOVE LOVE LOVED misty. Yea cuz misty is close to the mental age the kids were and I'm sure tn was sooo happy for ron to have a sitter. I bet tn was'nt around much after misty started sitting. And still that was only for a few months!! I'm sorry sounding snarky but listening to that just irked me all over. I might as well have watched the fall down video for the millionth time.

 

[dodie20]

I'll say it again. What I see when Ron did the fall to the knees was very poor acting. Maybe he thought he would get a tv role someday, idk.

He never said anything to Haleigh. That is the first reaction, usually even an instruction from LE, but we are so used to these kidnappings in the news all parents know to speak directly to the child. Haleigh even needs medicine, did you hear him mention anything about please get her medicine?! Notta'. Nuttin'.

He knew she was dead and he knew when, where, how and why.

That was weird. I remember finding out later, that Haleigh was sick, & wondered why the family hadn't already jumped on it-to beg the kidnappers to make sure she got her medicine. I got the impression that they were trying to keep her illness a secret. Maybe TN fully believed that Haleigh would quickly, come home & there was no need to air private matters. IDK. But the impression I got, was that they were trying to put forth a perfect image, (for Ron's sake), & were embarrassed at what they saw as an imperfection.

 

[dodie20]

That was weird. I remember finding out later, that Haleigh was sick, & wondered why the family hadn't already jumped on it-to beg the kidnappers to make sure she got her medicine. I got the impression that they were trying to keep her illness a secret. Maybe TN fully believed that Haleigh would quickly, come home & there was no need to air private matters. IDK. But the impression I got, was that they were trying to put forth a perfect image, (for Ron's sake), & were embarrassed at what they saw as an imperfection.

& 1 more thing...if they knew that Haleigh was dead, & were already embarrassed of her illness, then there would've been no reason, to put the info out there. just the motivation to perfect Ron's image. When it was reported that Ron had another ill child, (& this was verified in the anniversary articles), I admit that I passed judgement, because I see no sense in bringing multiple sick babies into this world. especially, if the parents aren't married, there's no stable home life, & the parents depend on welfare to support their families. Maybe Ron & TN had heard all of these criticisms before, & didn't want to deal with it. & now, that he's locked up, I guess it's safe to assume that Ronald isn't financially, supporting his children.

 

[Emeralgem]

How long after feb.9th/10th was this. Right around the wedding? At the 50sec. mark I am again astounded at how emphatically tn is talking up what a great relationship this was. All family and love and the kids LOVE LOVE LOVED misty. Yea cuz misty is close to the mental age the kids were and I'm sure tn was sooo happy for ron to have a sitter. I bet tn was'nt around much after misty started sitting. And still that was only for a few months!! I'm sorry sounding snarky but listening to that just irked me all over. I might as well have watched the fall down video for the millionth time.

IRC. It was right after the wedding.. Cobra showed up at that time too...JMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The one thing that always strikes me is to compare those early images and interviews of RC with those of Mark Lundsford, Jessica Lundsfords father. Here is a man in many respects very similar to Ron. Similar circumstances, similar life. Similar daughter missing in the middle of the night. Yet when you watch them, Marks grief concern and despair is palpable. You can see and sense his panic, his fear, and his confusion. His deep concern for his daughter. You don't see that with Ron. You see alot of what can be best described as faking it, mixed with a boiling over rage and traces of violence. There is NO fear there. It just made it readily apparent that something in the story being told was not ringing true. and in hindsight, everyone involved, (particularly Ron) knew that the little girl was not "missing". About the only player that you did get that same feeling of panic despair and fear from, similar to Mark, was TN. Who I do believe had (and probably doesn't have to this day) any real idea of what happened to that poor little girl.

Each person is different. Even some women are very unemotional. I don't think there are cookie cutter designs of how both genders act. I come from a very strong family but in certain traumatic circumstances in their lives I have seen it bring both the strongest female and strongest male to their knees in despair.

Well you are correct about Mark Lunsford. He always wore shades and it was very hard to determine his expression or feelings at times but I had no doubt whatsoever from day one he was anything other than a broken grieving father.

But now that you have mentioned it.... before Couey was found to be the real rapist/murderer of Jessica the majority of posters on many sites believed Mark was guilty of harming his own daughter and felt he acted inappropriately and suspicious.

The good thing is Mark eventually learned how to express his feelings more after he lost Jessie and has gone on to do such good work trying to protect society's children. Mark too was very angry for quite awhile until he learned how to channel that negative energy into something positive.

IMO

 

[Baznme]

Each person is different. Even some women are very unemotional. I don't think there are cookie cutter designs of how both genders act. I come from a very strong family but in certain traumatic circumstances in their lives I have seen it bring both the strongest female and strongest male to their knees in despair.

Well you are correct about Mark Lunsford. He always wore shades and it was very hard to determine his expression or feelings at times but I had no doubt whatsoever from day one he was anything other than a broken grieving father.

But now that you have mentioned it.... before Couey was found to be the real rapist/murderer of Jessica the majority of posters on many sites believed Mark was guilty of harming his own daughter and felt he acted inappropriately and suspicious.

The good thing is Mark eventually learned how to express his feelings more after he lost Jessie and has gone on to do such good work trying to protect society's children. Mark too was very angry for quite awhile until he learned how to channel that negative energy into something positive.

IMO

I never felt Mark was quilty of harming his own daughter nor have I ever felt he acted inappropriately and suspicious and I don't know of anyone that did.

 

[nomoresorrow]

(BOLD/RED BY NMS)

6 momths later, Ron was still trying to control the investigation.

Aug. 9, 2009 - Haleigh's family remains divided 6 months later

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-08-09/story/haleighs_family_remains_divided_6_months_later

(Just part of story where Ron is interviewed.)

Cummings said he and former girlfriend Misty Croslin — who he has since married and is now Misty Cummings — have been unfairly targeted.

“There should have been more attention to Crystal’s family,” he said. “I think they should have paid more attention to everyone rather than just me and Misty.”

He said questioning should have been broader.

“They didn’t have the big picture,” he said. “Why do they not question everybody?”

In recent interviews at Sykes’ Welaka home where Ronald Cummings, 25, and his wife live, he told the Times-Union the Putnam County Sheriff’s Office focus was shortsighted.

Standing outside wearing T-shirts with Haleigh’s likeness, Ronald and Misty Cummings said they gave dozens of hours of interviews in February and March, including her longest, which she said occurred just before the couple were married.

“I think the longest time I was in there was eight hours,” she said.

Ronald Cummings said the investigation went in the wrong direction.

“They took a child-abduction investigation and made it a personal investigation,” he said. “Instead of keeping the focus on finding Haleigh, they made the focus on Misty and what she was doing one weekend and what happened six months ago and what happened seven years ago. It was tunnel vision.”

Cummings has cut off interviews with investigators.

“Besides ‘No I didn’t have nothing to do with my child being missing,’ what do you say?” he asked.

Maj. Gary Bowling, director of law enforcement for the department, said detectives would like to interview Cummings again but have been resisted.

IMO, on one hand Ron says that LE should be focusing on finding Haleigh, not on Misty and him. But the other hand he says that LE should have broadened their focus and looked at Crystal's side of the family or anyone other than Misty and him.


IMO, if Ron's work alibi was so solid, why according to Ron was he the focus of LE? Why did LE interview him dozen of times? Why did he stop cooperating and refuse to talk to LE? Ron said he stopped talking to police because he had "nothing do with his child being missing" not because he was at work when she disappeared. But if he had nothing to do with it, why is he afraid to talk to LE?

IMO, Ron is at the top of the suspect list because of his own controlling actions.

Thank you for finding that and posting it 1! I remember reading that at the time but couldn't find the article yesterday when a poster alleged that cousin Jo was the one who hadn't/wasn't cooperating with LE - Good to get the facts straight!

MO ~

 

[bessie]

The one thing that always strikes me is to compare those early images and interviews of RC with those of Mark Lundsford, Jessica Lundsfords father. Here is a man in many respects very similar to Ron. Similar circumstances, similar life. Similar daughter missing in the middle of the night. Yet when you watch them, Marks grief concern and despair is palpable. You can see and sense his panic, his fear, and his confusion. His deep concern for his daughter. You don't see that with Ron. You see alot of what can be best described as faking it, mixed with a boiling over rage and traces of violence. There is NO fear there. It just made it readily apparent that something in the story being told was not ringing true. and in hindsight, everyone involved, (particularly Ron) knew that the little girl was not "missing". About the only player that you did get that same feeling of panic despair and fear from, similar to Mark, was TN. Who I do believe had (and probably doesn't have to this day) any real idea of what happened to that poor little girl.

Your observations are spot on, Faefrost. I've made the comparison between Ron and Mark a million times. I knew little or nothing about each father the first time I saw and heard them on the news other than what I could assess at a glance. Both were mid-to-late 20's, blue collar, and lived in relatively close proximity to each other in semi-rural areas of Florida, and both were fathers of missing daughters who had vanished in the night from their own homes. Other than that, my judgments were made on a clean slate.

That afternoon in late February, 2005, when I saw Mark Lunsford on CNN begging for help to find his daughter, I literally crumbled into tears. I wanted to rush to Florida to help in any way that I could. Not once during those weeks before her body was found did I doubt Mark's innocence in little Jessie's disappearance.

On the other hand, when I heard Ron and Misty on the 911 call, I said right out loud to my husband, "he's lying", and my suspicions continued to grow with each subsequent interview.

In analyzing a situation where I'm in doubt about an individual's intentions or motivation, besides examining the individual's behavior, I also consider my own emotional response. It's an intuitive way of thinking that comes naturally to me, honed by years of theatrical training. One man's behavior aroused deep sadness and compassion in me. The latter, anger and suspicion. Why? If anything, I tend to be overly empathetic, but not in Ron's case. And that tells me a lot because I've lived enough years and experienced enough carp that I am quite comfortable in trusting my gut.

As for TN, I've never felt panic or uncertainty from her. Like many others, though, I think we witnessed a display of genuine grief from both her and Ron during the "fall down" scene, and for a short moment, I did feel very sorry for both of them.

 

[nomoresorrow]

I never felt Mark was quilty of harming his own daughter nor have I ever felt he acted inappropriately and suspicious and I don't know of anyone that did.

Same here Baz. Matter of fact I think it's an insult to compare Ronald Cumming's conduct, post-HaLeigh's disappearance, to the conduct of Mark Lunsford, Marc Klaas, John Walsh, etc. after their children were genuinely abducted and murdered! MOO ~

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I never felt Mark was quilty of harming his own daughter nor have I ever felt he acted inappropriately and suspicious and I don't know of anyone that did.

Oh my gosh........well that is certainly good to know because when Jessica went missing the vast majority thought that he or his father, Archie, were the perpetrators.

It was the majority view on many major crime message board sites.

I will never forget it because it still makes my stomach churn when I think about all the vile and disgusting false things said about them, even Ruth and when it happened all over again to Steve Greone when his children were kidnapped and murdered it just made me cringe.

IMO

 

[Baznme]

Your observations are spot on, Faefrost. I've made the comparison between Ron and Mark a million times. I knew little or nothing about each father the first time I saw and heard them on the news other than what I could assess at a glance. Both were mid-to-late 20's, blue collar, and lived in relatively close proximity to each other in semi-rural areas of Florida, and both were fathers of missing daughters who had vanished in the night from their own homes. Other than that, my judgments were made on a clean slate.

That afternoon in late February, 2005, when I saw Mark Lunsford on CNN begging for help to find his daughter, I literally crumbled into tears. I wanted to rush to Florida to help in any way that I could. Not once during those weeks before her body was found did I doubt Mark's innocence in little Jessie's disappearance.

On the other hand, when I heard Ron and Misty on the 911 call, I said right out loud to my husband, "he's lying", and my suspicions continued to grow with each subsequent interview.

In analyzing a situation where I'm in doubt about an individual's intentions or motivation, besides examining the individual's behavior, I also consider my own emotional response. It's an intuitive way of thinking that comes naturally to me, honed by years of theatrical training. One man's behavior aroused deep sadness and compassion in me. The latter, anger and suspicion. Why? If anything, I tend to be overly empathetic, but not in Ron's case. And that tells me a lot because I've lived enough years and experienced enough carp that I am quite comfortable in trusting my gut.

As for TN, I've never felt panic or uncertainty from her. Like many others, though, I think we witnessed a display of genuine grief from both her and Ron during the "fall down" scene, and for a short moment, I did feel very sorry for both of them.

BBM in red - Until.......he said the words "I'd give my life to have my daughter's life "back". (past tense).

Then......he fell to his knees realizing what he had just said and hoped no one picked up on it. Unfortunately, my antennae went up at that time.

 

[Baznme]

Oh my gosh........well that is certainly good to know because when Jessica went missing the vast majority thought that he or his father, Archie, were the perpetrators.

It was the majority view on many major crime message board sites.

I will never forget it because it still makes my stomach churn when I think about all the vile and disgusting false things said about them, even Ruth and when it happened all over again to Steve Greone when his children were kidnapped and murdered it just made me cringe.

IMO

Statistically, it would be a natural thing to suspect the closest male to the victim i.e., the father but it doesn't take very long to see whether or not these are sincere human beings in my opinion. There's just no comparison between the two.


I'm proud to say, I was not one of those that held Mark under suspicion and I'll just leave it at that. Bear in mind, it's only my honest opinion.